balancing: attack vs defence vs speed

[Torg]

this is a proposal for discussion, and maybe a proposal for testing. numbers arent fixed. its a thought experiment.
i think this is how i should be, in a perfect (online) world without clipping: different classes should encourage different playstyles. numbers are per cent, 100 is a theoretical maximum:

Class Speed Defence Attack
HCtanks 60 90 100
MCtanks 100 90 60
Spys 100 50 100
APUs 90 60 90
PPUs 90 100 10
PEs 100 80 90

i think you'll get the idea that combat its not just about damage and resists, but char speed also. atm all chars are set for max speed, this could as well change.

this approach to rebalancing is based on recent discussions on patchnotes and cmasters apu redefinition ideas.

[Forget My Name]

You also need to take into consideration range.

I don't see why MC Tank isn't 100 damage. MC is the only weapon type that requires a person to be within melee range, thus within friendly fire for AOE and stray attacks.

[Dropout]

You also need to take into consideration range.

I don't see why MC Tank isn't 100 damage. MC is the only weapon type that requires a person to be within melee range, thus within friendly fire for AOE and stray attacks.

Friendly fire shouldnt be a problem in pvp though.. If the fighters are in a bad enough Clan, that his clanmates can aim/think (AoE'ing with a melee'er there), that melee dude really should look for a better Clan..
I do agree that melee should be '100' damage though.

However this Whole thing is completely useless (not trying to be an ass here, just hear me out..) considering that classes has NOTHING to do with these Things. All it comes Down to is weapon balancing, and as long as it is as bad as it is right now this subject just doesnt make much sence.
Balancing CLASSES from 2-3 weapons (at the very max) for each class is just silly IMO.


What I really want is to make more setups viable.. I cant stand how its just plain stupid to make a really defensive setup for example.. Like the old TSU PEs.. Meh now Im back to the PEs, sorry I just cant help it.. They're mah babys!

[Torg]

You also need to take into consideration range.... I don't see why MC Tank isn't 100 damage. MC is the only weapon type that requires a person to be within melee range, thus within friendly fire for AOE and stray attacks.

its because no class should have max damage, defense and speed at a time. but well, heres the next iteration, on special request:

Class Speed Defence Attack Range Role
HCtanks __ 60 _ 90 _ 100 _ 90 _ slow ranged fighter
MCtanks _ 100 _ 90 _ 60 _ 10 _ fast close fighter
Spys ____ 100 _ 50 _ 100 _ 100 fast ranged tech specialist
APUs _____ 90 _ 60 _ 90 _ 70 _ fast ranged psi specialist
PPUs _____ 90 _ 100 _10 _20 _ fast close defense specialist
PEs _____ 100 _ 80 _ 90 _ 90_ fast ranged fighter

explanation: to my experience sniper rifles have extended range superior to any laser and PEs, being the fast ranged fighter in this model, are unlikely to use a SH. APUs should develop along the line cmaster drew for us.

[Dribble Joy]

One thing I have said many times in the past is that against anyone with anything approaching decent skill, speed is useless (baring clipping, which is a separate issue). I'm extremely reluctant to support any PvP balancing that factors in speed to any degree. It's especially of lower value at OP fights.
(Factoring speed into PvE in some way I do agree with.)

[Dropout]

One thing I have said many times in the past is that against anyone with anything approaching decent skill, speed is useless (baring clipping, which is a separate issue). I'm extremely reluctant to support any PvP balancing that factors in speed to any degree. It's especially of lower value at OP fights.
(Factoring speed into PvE in some way I do agree with.)

I kind of agree with you. However they need to make it worthwhile to spec resists over speed. Since when your fast, you will avoid A LOT of shots..
My "Skin-Head" tank on Terra was incredible fast, but had horrible resists.. I rarely died - And Im shit at clipping

I am NOT speaking against speed at all though! Just.. Give us a choice..

[Dribble Joy]

We are stuck between balancing purely on the ability to withstand damage, the choice to make speed a defence factor and deliberately factoring speed into the balancing process.

The main issue is that not everyone has the required skill for speed to be an irrelevant factor.
Speccing speed skills against these people is effective against them, but not to others. But in speccing those speed skills you leave yourself vulnerable to those to which your speed or even movement style is of no matter.

Perhaps that's as it should be? Leave speed out of the theoretical/mathematical balance of defence/offence. Not speccing speed will put you at an equal footing against all players. Speccing speed will strengthen your position against lower skilled runners, but at a disadvantage against those with higher-end capabilities.

[William Antrim]

Class Speed Defence Attack
HCtanks 60 90 100 = a total of 250
MCtanks 100 90 60 = a total of 250
Spys 100 50 100 = a total of 250
APUs 90 60 90 = a total of 240
PPUs 90 100 10 = a total of 200
PEs 100 80 90 = a total of 270

I am a huge PE fan but these numbers do not make sense.