[R#175/6] Test Patch Discussion

[CMaster]

There is a ton of stuff that needs your attention on the Public Test Server and this panic laden nonsense is taking away the focus on stuff fixed AND stuff broken. We have rebuild major parts of the deployment and the testserver is a complete recompile that is bound to have issues that need to be identified, fixed and reviewed. Should we approach #175 retail and drones are not yet fixed - thats when I'll stop deleting "omg drone!!11" comments from this section. Until then, all has been said on that topic.

This is a testserver and everything is subject to change until we put up a release candidate patch for retail. Many have asked for a way to help Neocron make the transition to a better future - here is your chance. So please for the love of Crahn - stop the crusade and get to work. If you are just out to complain, this is not the place for it.

Any priority issues to focus on/check?

[löffel]

awesome that there is a patch

will it be downloaded and installed automatically? or how will that work?

[Ascension]

As much as I would live my beloved APU class to be fixed, I'm even more glad that the patch features more technical based fixes. Alt+tab, clipping, world map etc. it's a fantastic start and I can't wait to see where things go!

[Netphreak]

Every time i clicked to turn a page i kept thinking one thought. This is a test server patch. This is excellent news and this reminds me of the good(bad) old days when someone had a change that they didnt like.

Its still a test server patch. Maybe another change comes in before it hits retail. In the mean time why cry about it on the forum when it hasnt happened. roll a droner and get levelling instead of bitching on the forum.

That said its nice to see passion from the community for their beloved nc even if it is somewhat misguided.

For people who are screaming about the "nerf" learn to play and adapt. there are other ways to level.

You pretty much sounded up what I was thinking. I'm obviously worried that they might be just disabling things rather than the tackling the root cause but, this is a test server, making changes is what it is for, and at the end of the day these problems are being working on by volunteers who seem very passionate about the game and making the game better/more enjoyable for everyone.

[DR REED]

Now, one last thing on drones:

Do us all the favour and drop this topic for now. There is a ton of stuff that needs your attention on the Public Test Server and this panic laden nonsense is taking away the focus on stuff fixed AND stuff broken. We have rebuild major parts of the deployment and the testserver is a complete recompile that is bound to have issues that need to be identified, fixed and reviewed. Should we approach #175 retail and drones are not yet fixed - thats when I'll stop deleting "omg drone!!11" comments from this section. Until then, all has been said on that topic.

This is a testserver and everything is subject to change until we put up a release candidate patch for retail. Many have asked for a way to help Neocron make the transition to a better future - here is your chance. So please for the love of Crahn - stop the crusade and get to work. If you are just out to complain, this is not the place for it.

At first, dear Mokoi: I am sure that a lot of people are absolute aware that this revitalization of Neocron just done by volunteers and complete with own ressources is holding these in high regard! This was amazing !

But: For years now we experienced infinite attempts to force drones & droners out of the game. And the arguments are always the same.

The simple question regarding the patch 175 is: How should we "test" something that is DISABLED ????

Is it a binary test in the form: "LIKE" or "DISLIKE" the remove of AoE drones ???

I have seen runners in-game with /36 chars waste their time, frapsing/reporting, and generally trying to be a GM telling other runners how to play.
Those runners are the reason the DEV team is applying this AOE removal in #175.
I fell these runners need to stop complaining to get the DEV to adjust the game to their styles of play.

This is sadly true ! I wonder why some player starts the revived Neocron 2.2 with denunciating other players all over the time.
The simple method to set every droner equal to a cheater/exploiter or every WOC capped player was exactly as annoying as wrong.

If you concern about weak game mechanics of software issues which can be used to DIRECTLY harms other player, bringing them at disadvantage, there are other, more severe issues you should be working on. Faster levvelling, faster gaining wealth & money are not these subjects, because Neocron has no other sinks other than TIME SINKS. Its only a question of time when players/chars are capped or rich.

In most cases droners have big disadvanges as well. They cannot loot, they are pretty worthless meat bags in pvp and easily found. The drones have no "JESUS-PPU" which is healing them if big mobs (with 2.2 highest damage outputs !?!) are hitting them.

So i fear that this "disabling" at the testserver will only the first step to make them worthless and unplayable like melee tanks. Or even more worthless than these.

A last comment from another point of view: SOLO PLAY & TIME SINKS

Droners are a very important element for solo playing. This does NOT mean that i am holding a pleading for "playing solo in an MMO". But there is a certain demand of contents for solo playing. I am working whole day and do not have 14 hours/day for grinding and wasting time to useless and boring "endless" leveling.

I know there a a lot of people (and not accidental these are very active here in the forums ) that seems to have a lot of daytime for grinding. They have obviously no problem capping a char in the first year and reaching WOC level in the second to join OP fights in the 3rd year :P

But i am seriously doubting that these guys are the majority or that the game should be biased in their favour.

So:

- don't take drone playing out of the game
- don't make droners worthless and unplayable

This would be a capital damage for the game and another step to transfor it in a trashy copy of CS game.

Reed

[Mokoi]

Obviously, we do not expect you to test items that are temporarily disabled on the testserver. The fix for these drones is not ready to be tested - thus they are disabled.
Drones are a unique weapon type in Neocron and a major feature that no one wants to remove or has plans to remove - your fears are, understandable as they may appear to others, absolutely unfounded.
Again - we want your attention on the testserver focussed on the other issues and general featureset / working of game mechanics.

[Torg]

patch list is awesome, i'm really looking forward to more of that. in the meantime i'll level all my spy chars on rifle, pistol and hc (yes, heavy, and i was having a barnload of fun doing that) and enjoy it. really, i don't mind if aoe drones are removed or weakened forever, i dont care if any class isnt as imbalancedly leet as anyone would ask for. all i want is to play this wonderful game, and have a fun time with other people doing so, and i don't feel mercy for folks demanding to cap any chars in no time, so they will be bored sooner than anyone else. i really wish future patches will "flatten the top damage", so you dont need to wield the highest TL or grind to woc 5 in order to be able to pvp properly. like: remove the damage bonus for woc and cut the damage bonus for tech in half. and cut all aoe damage to 50 %. softcap everything. make tanks stronger and much, much slower (class speed penalty), and spys weaker (ie remove spy PA), so the PE would be viable again. just talking.

[\\Fényx//]

make tanks stronger and much, much slower (class speed penalty)

agree'd with you up until that moment and saw red.

Think about it, that would completely revoke the point of a melee tank all together. Instead of a class penalty, just make having a heavy weapon out give the kind of runspeed reduction that it used to.

[Dropout]

agree'd with you up until that moment and saw red.

Think about it, that would completely revoke the point of a melee tank all together. Instead of a class penalty, just make having a heavy weapon out give the kind of runspeed reduction that it used to.

The runspeed hit with HC weapon out is still pretty massive tbh.
However some people (myself included) spec a TON of ATL to counter it. This Hurts the resists A LOT btw..
On Terra my lowtech Dev tank has 75 energy specced and NOTHING else in resists (about 150 ATL IIRC - when drugged of course) - And I do not use resistor implants either.
This kinda setup will probably become pretty bad if the anticlipping Works as I kinda hope it does.

[Torg]

In general: i believe this is a way to restructure classes in NC: make Tanks the slow and heavy soldiers, PEs the fast and light soldiers and spys, well, specialists. We dont really want to render melee totally obsolete, but want to bring back PEs, while breaking the assumed superiority of spys. One way to achieve this could be tying serious speed penalties (both ATL and AGL) to HC imps and PA, while bringing in a more restrictive speed softcap, so it wouldnt make real sense to waste to many skill points on speed.

[löffel]

btw, in case this is a quick fix, please make continous firing work in hacknet with that patch see http://forum.neocron.com/showthread....us-fire-broken

[MrWeedster]

Dont fuck with Tank runspeed, period.

Seriously, dont do it.

The reason is the fact that u have a two tier based hit system: Char skill and player skill to aim.

If you play a slugtank vs. lightning fast PE/Spys, you are way more easy hitable for them then they are to you, because they run circles around you, and are harder to hit, because of their runspeed.

Maybe a tank can take more shots from PE/Spy, but tanks dont have stealth.

Heck, when slugtank happens PE/Spys can easily run away from you without stealth.

In Op fight circumstances you as a tank have to be able to run away to recover. If you slug the tank there is no chance to run away.

What happens: Tanks die and you have PE/Spy/PPU Op fights.


I think all the runspeed discussion will be ending when clipping is no issue anymore.

[William Antrim]

If anyone wants to know how to cap a spy without drones legitimately and brilliantly fast then send me a pm. It only costs 300k a pop.

[Dropout]

If anyone wants to know how to cap a spy without drones legitimately and brilliantly fast then send me a pm. It only costs 300k a pop.

As a Rhino driver/repper?

@MrWeedster:
Yeah I agree that they should do anything to hurt tank damage. However I think that they should make it worth it to spec for resists.
As it is at the moment, I barely spec for resists on any classes, nor do I use resistor implants at all.
I just dont feel like I gain enough from speccing for resists - at all.

[nabbl]

The runspeed hit with HC weapon out is still pretty massive tbh.
However some people (myself included) spec a TON of ATL to counter it. This Hurts the resists A LOT btw..
On Terra my lowtech Dev tank has 75 energy specced and NOTHING else in resists (about 150 ATL IIRC - when drugged of course) - And I do not use resistor implants either.
This kinda setup will probably become pretty bad if the anticlipping Works as I kinda hope it does.

Well ... if you get the enemies attention and lets say two spies are chasing you, you will holster your weapon anyway and run. It is the tanks "stealth". Clipping.

Only problem I see. If we adjust the runspeed, the spies could become more powerful as they are the only class able to evade combat.