[R#175/6] Test Patch Discussion

[The Pope]

Disabling AOE drones is imo the same thing that happened when you guys moved the MC5 commander and closed Ceres lab, you placed an even larger gap between the exploiters and the rest of the server. The people who used the exploits to gain WoC xp, MC5 implants and WoC disks have won, they have what they need, but the rest of us who did things legit now have to deal with a much longer time to cap and gain WoC xp, horrible respawns on MC5 commander and Protos that can shoot you from across the zone.

My opinion is simple and might be a way to push some lifeblood into the servers.. Open up Character COPIES, charge a small fee ($10-$20 USD) per character. Characters are COPIED, not Transferred, and they come to Titan with XP ONLY! No items, Credits or anything else. I know officially you cannot accept money, so maybe there is a way you guys can work it out so it seems like we are paying the GM to give the character the exact XP they had on Terra?

Again, just an idea.
But the removal of AoE drones without implementing a suitable AoE replacement for Spies has pretty much doomed the class. We are too weak to handle high level mobs with their bugged damage and other PvE issues (Invisible fire mobs, mobs shooting you without animations and so on..)

[Absurdum0422]

You've got to break a few eggs to make an omelette. Let's give these guys a chance to prove their capacity to fix issues quickly without putting us in limbo.

I mean, by all means, you can just not play the game if AoE drones being disabled until a fix is found if it is that big of a deal to you. Sure, I love my RG-1000s and RK-1000s, but if I need to sacrifice them for a temporary period of time for a step forward, then so be it.

and that's legit. The only reason i'm concerned is because i've heard this talk before and it didn't work out they way everyone was hoping it would. But you're right, we'll just have to wait and swallow the pill. It's not like they actually care what we think about gameplay. They will always do what they think is best

[Manosteel36]

Invisible walls to just turning off drones... Have you thought about just disabling spies all together? could be easier

You are complaining about the easiest form of leveling that is making every leveling area be a Droner hub...

And you are complaining about setting up invisible walls so people can't safe spot.. you are a big complainer, and you aren't trying to add value to the NC community, these people are.. . shame on you.

[Manosteel36]

Disabling AOE drones is imo the same thing that happened when you guys moved the MC5 commander and closed Ceres lab, you placed an even larger gap between the exploiters and the rest of the server. The people who used the exploits to gain WoC xp, MC5 implants and WoC disks have won, they have what they need, but the rest of us who did things legit now have to deal with a much longer time to cap and gain WoC xp, horrible respawns on MC5 commander and Protos that can shoot you from across the zone.

My opinion is simple and might be a way to push some lifeblood into the servers.. Open up Character COPIES, charge a small fee ($10-$20 USD) per character. Characters are COPIED, not Transferred, and they come to Titan with XP ONLY! No items, Credits or anything else. I know officially you cannot accept money, so maybe there is a way you guys can work it out so it seems like we are paying the GM to give the character the exact XP they had on Terra?

Again, just an idea.
But the removal of AoE drones without implementing a suitable AoE replacement for Spies has pretty much doomed the class. We are too weak to handle high level mobs with their bugged damage and other PvE issues (Invisible fire mobs, mobs shooting you without animations and so on..)

It hasn't doomed the class, it has made them on par with everyone else... Everyone is complaining because the super-fast-easy-mindless-exploitable form of leveling for spies is now altered so its not as faceroll... Go back to WoW please

If characters were able to be brought from other servers.. the community would die and no one would be incited to play... stop being lazy and play the game

[dWintermut3]

It hasn't doomed the class, it has made them on par with everyone else... Everyone is complaining because the super-fast-easy-mindless-exploitable form of leveling for spies is now altered so its not as faceroll... Go back to WoW please

If characters were able to be brought from other servers.. the community would die and no one would be incited to play... stop being lazy and play the game

No it makes spies the ONLY archetype without AoE at all TL ranges.

Pistols are sufficiently broken that it's not an exageration to say it removes all spy AoE, reducing levelling time by as much as 500-600%

[Forget My Name]

It hasn't doomed the class, it has made them on par with everyone else... Everyone is complaining because the super-fast-easy-mindless-exploitable form of leveling for spies is now altered so its not as faceroll... Go back to WoW please.

Spies are pretty much doomed now. They fill in the same role as PE's do now, meh.

Why?

Because both Tanks and Monks can AOE level just as fast, if not faster (I know tanks level faster than droners, not sure bout Monks) than droner spies.

Your point might have merit if NO class could level as fast as Spies, but two other classes could, and now will be able to level faster.

So no, Spies are not on par with "everyone else", as you say, because Tanks and Monk will be able to speed level regardless.

[The Pope]

EVERY other class is capable of AoE leveling, all of which can do it better than spies ever could. Monks can attack as long as they have psi, which with boosters is a long time. Tanks and PEs can AoE essentially till their weapon breaks since they can recycle the ammo needed, Spies on the other hand had to launch a drone, get shot by mobs, find a spot that wouldnt get them banned, then only shoot off a certain number of rounds before having to do it all over again.. So ya if you were an exploiter droning was easy and capped you stupidly fast.

[Dropout]

EVERY other class is capable of AoE leveling, all of which can do it better than spies ever could. Monks can attack as long as they have psi, which with boosters is a long time. Tanks and PEs can AoE essentially till their weapon breaks since they can recycle the ammo needed, Spies on the other hand had to launch a drone, get shot by mobs, find a spot that wouldnt get them banned, then only shoot off a certain number of rounds before having to do it all over again.. So ya if you were an exploiter droning was easy and capped you stupidly fast.

Your kidding, right..?

[dWintermut3]

I would also like to point out no one has been able to argue against my biggest point:


Everything the devs have done that froze an exploit after some people had already used it, without banning the exploiters or rolling their characters back has created a HUGE gap between people willing to cheat and people that are not.

This is just one more thing that means I will never have as much or do as well as people that cheated.

The unintended terrible consequence is that the best people on the server, with the capped constructors and the MC-5 chips and the WoC levels... will be the people that were "in before the nerf."

The fact this pattern has been repeated several times now (with ceres labs, MC-5 and now droners) is making me wonder if I ever have a chance of competing with the cheaters, not the other way around.

The fair solution would be to wipe all XP when you make a change this big, wipe all MC-5 chips when you change the zone that drastically, etc.


Right now they are simply rewarding the exploiters.

[Forget My Name]

EVERY other class is capable of AoE leveling, all of which can do it better than spies ever could. Monks can attack as long as they have psi, which with boosters is a long time. Tanks and PEs can AoE essentially till their weapon breaks since they can recycle the ammo needed, Spies on the other hand had to launch a drone, get shot by mobs, find a spot that wouldnt get them banned, then only shoot off a certain number of rounds before having to do it all over again.. So ya if you were an exploiter droning was easy and capped you stupidly fast.

I agree with all of this except the part about PEs. Sure PEs can act like shittier versions of Tanks, but if you are going to play an HC PE, why don't you just play a Tank?

The PE is the absolute bottom of the barrel in this game. Even without AOE, Spies will still be more desirable than PEs, but that isn't saying much.

[Forget My Name]

The fact this pattern has been repeated several times now (with ceres labs, MC-5 and now droners) is making me wonder if I ever have a chance of competing with the cheaters, not the other way around.

You'll be able to make a capped Constructor like I did, but it'll take you a month instead of a few days. So don't worry, you'll get there eventually!

[The Pope]

Your kidding, right..?

No Walker i am not kidding.

You cant honestly think Droning is easier than lobbing grenades off a wall into a pack of mobs..

Droning is really only good for 2 reasons.. 1. Fastest XP available for a Spy. 2. You dont have to worry so much about dying (though it still happens quite a bit.)
The down side to drones is huge! 1. ITS F'ING BORING!!! 2. ITS F'ING BORING!!! 3. Half of the NC world is considered a safe spot. 4. Limited ammo 5. ITS F'ING BORING!!! 6. Most drones suck, only good ones are the RK and the PN which is a rare.
The list of reasons to hate drones could go on for another paragraph im sure, but you get the point.

[Forget My Name]

No Walker i am not kidding.

You cant honestly think Droning is easier than lobbing grenades off a wall into a pack of mobs..

Droning is really only good for 2 reasons.. 1. Fastest XP available for a Spy. 2. You dont have to worry so much about dying (though it still happens quite a bit.)
The down side to drones is huge! 1. ITS F'ING BORING!!! 2. ITS F'ING BORING!!! 3. Half of the NC world is considered a safe spot. 4. Limited ammo 5. ITS F'ING BORING!!! 6. Most drones suck, only good ones are the RK and the PN which is a rare.
The list of reasons to hate drones could go on for another paragraph im sure, but you get the point.

If I could trade skill as a Tank I would because Tank leveling blows Spy leveling out of the water.

[Dropout]

I would also like to point out no one has been able to argue against my biggest point:


Everything the devs have done that froze an exploit after some people had already used it, without banning the exploiters or rolling their characters back has created a HUGE gap between people willing to cheat and people that are not.

This is just one more thing that means I will never have as much or do as well as people that cheated.

The unintended terrible consequence is that the best people on the server, with the capped constructors and the MC-5 chips and the WoC levels... will be the people that were "in before the nerf."

The fact this pattern has been repeated several times now (with ceres labs, MC-5 and now droners) is making me wonder if I ever have a chance of competing with the cheaters, not the other way around.

Best items does NOT equal best players.
Most of the people that "didnt play nice" are horrible players.
I do agree on the problem with MC-5's since the only viable class without those are HC Tanks. Myself has putten my PE on standby till I actually can get the MC-5's needed. And are now making a tank.

The fair solution would be to wipe all XP when you make a change this big, wipe all MC-5 chips when you change the zone that drastically, etc.

Heh thats probably the single worst idea I have ever heard.. Wipe all XP?!

[The Pope]

I agree with all of this except the part about PEs. Sure PEs can act like shittier versions of Tanks, but if you are going to play an HC PE, why don't you just play a Tank?

The PE is the absolute bottom of the barrel in this game. Even without AOE, Spies will still be more desirable than PEs, but that isn't saying much.

PE is the midpoint between tank and spy, and as such will always have its place in the game to those who want to use the pistols and rifles and not be as squishy as spy. They can still WoC using HC, lom over to desired subclass and destroy in pvp. People have been complaining about PEs being nerfed for years now and i have always laughed since i could run into p2 on my PE and go 1v2 with Dev Tanks and Dissi Spies while using my IAR, and even Ionic/X-bow before i swapped.

And getting WoC xp on an HC PE is actually pretty damn easy and fast, if done properly.