1. #16
    Slaving over Sony Vegas CMaster's Avatar
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    The big reason for ditching the locational thing, is that having only 2 slots per zone means that armour types that cover more resists end up much more valuable than other armour pieces with such a system. Kevlar is problematic at the moment in a bunch of ways, but one of the biggest ones, is that by covering Poision and Fire, with limited slots it ends up much more attractive than either Inq or Carbon, because it then means that one other slot can be used for energy.

    That said, I'm not wedded to a return to no locational - I just think it causes many more problems than it solves.

    Of course, making con resists and armour resist more equvilant would also help make this less of an issue, but the inherent diminishing returns in both systems means you'll always be best covering every damage type with every type of protection.

  2. #17
    Bitter Old Fart Dribble Joy's Avatar
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    That's more to do with the armour values on the current armours, which needs completely revising, especially since there's a whole range of them that are simply useless.

    Armour is going to be tweaked to an optimum setup regardless of the system. We just need one where all the types are useful. The underwears hold a lot of potential in that, shame that they are often as pointless.

    Incidentally, there are other armours of use aside from kevlar. Blessed shelter actually gives better energy armour than WoC PEPA, so regant and camo PA setups actually have higher armour values (since those PAs give higher fire+poison).

  3. #18

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    First of all thank you to CMaster to this awesome piece of math.
    I read thoroughly through your posts twice and I can really just say that you are right. There are some parts that need discussing and final decisions but all in all I see the problem and I prefer your solution!

  4. #19
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    I like the work that has gone into this. Hats off for that. I couldnt devise a theory like that. I agree with all of the thoughts on armour changes. What if we simplified things further and balanced armour by tl - using int and strength based armour? Or psi and strength?

    What about splitting the damage in pve and PvP into separate systems? Pve armour then comes down to how quick you level your main stat for everyone and PvP damage can be removed entirely and calculated in a separate way. I think this might make things easier. No I don't want to add resilience to armour but something similar might work for nc. Nonetheless great work thus far.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  5. #20
    NC2 were u fight bugs from NC1
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    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    ...

    What about splitting the damage in pve and PvP into separate systems? Pve armour then comes down to how quick you level your main stat for everyone and PvP damage can be removed entirely and calculated in a separate way. I think this might make things easier. No I don't want to add resilience to armour but something similar might work for nc. Nonetheless great work thus far.
    Is that really necessary though, as we already only take a third of the damage that mobs do per hit from another player.

  6. #21
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    I am not sure Net tbh. I am just thinking of ways of simplifying things so as to make them work better. I am all for a simple interface and simple game long term. It makes it easier for new people to learn and lets them spend more time enjoying aspects of the game such as lore etc.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  7. #22
    Bitter Old Fart Dribble Joy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    What if we simplified things further and balanced armour by tl - using int and strength based armour? Or psi and strength?
    This mainly depends on who ends up using the armour. Getting the defence balance for all the classes right in part depends on them using the right armours.

    Most of it I think is sorted the right way.
    Regular armour (inq, carbon, battle, etc.): Str
    Monk armour: Psi

    Where it's all a bit odd (especially if we continue to have localised armour) is the int belts. Without similar int based armour on the rest of the zones, it's just lop-sided.

    Where int and dex can come more into play is the PAs and underwears. Basing them on int and strength essentially removes them as viable alternatives to PA for PEs. That or we fudge the armour values so the ones they can use are worth more, but that means the higher versions are even better for tanks and spies.

  8. #23
    NC2 were u fight bugs from NC1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dribble Joy View Post
    This mainly depends on who ends up using the armour. Getting the defence balance for all the classes right in part depends on them using the right armours.

    Most of it I think is sorted the right way.
    Regular armour (inq, carbon, battle, etc.): Str
    Monk armour: Psi

    Where it's all a bit odd (especially if we continue to have localised armour) is the int belts. Without similar int based armour on the rest of the zones, it's just lop-sided.

    Where int and dex can come more into play is the PAs and underwears. Basing them on int and strength essentially removes them as viable alternatives to PA for PEs. That or we fudge the armour values so the ones they can use are worth more, but that means the higher versions are even better for tanks and spies.
    I think if the SF (along with other imps) still gave +5 INT then there wouldn't be such an issue as PE's would still have the possibility to use med belts.
    TERRA:
    Master Netphreak : Rifle PE 70/65** | Netphreak : Rifle Spy 79/65**
    Jedi Master Net : Gimped Blessed Hybird Monk 62/55**
    Kid Net : Pistol PE 63/65** | Chuck Rock : 56/58* H-C tank
    Dark Eagle : 73/56** CST Pistol Spy

  9. #24

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    When they made 2.2, they simply added a bunch of items to try to fil the holes in the pvp balancing.

    In a game that is supposed to be like shadowrun, this is the wrong approach I think.

    Adding more item simply makes everythin harder to balance.

    We need fewer items, with more setup possible, however that requires a lot of prep work.

  10. #25
    Bitter Old Fart Dribble Joy's Avatar
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    The problem is that too much stuff doesn't have an exact enough purpose. It's more like filler.
    If these items were better integrated into the overall system, they would be much easier to balance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Netphreak View Post
    I think if the SF (along with other imps) still gave +5 INT then there wouldn't be such an issue as PE's would still have the possibility to use med belts.
    I was thinking more along the underwear lines. PEs don't have access to the higher level stuff, only the Int ~45 stuff, which is a level well below that suitable for end-game purposes.
    Reworking the underwear/PA system so that they are a viable option might mean changing the reqs from Int to Dex or similar.

  11. #26

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    I hate to sound like a broken record but just make class specific items for PE's

    it will save a lot of effort and time

    there already class specific items in game as well as items that only certain classes can use due to state limitations which basically makes them class specific items................

  12. #27

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    Can I just throw this in here.. I think it's inconvenient that armor parts of the same set always seem to have different STR reqs per part. I never knew the purpose of that. (maybe there is one)

  13. #28

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    ya each tier of armor requiring different level of the same stat is annoying your are 100% correct.. it makes me always checking Techaven.org before i make trips to town for my new module/gun.... makes you want to just level in the city ;p

    Maybe outposts could be more inclusive of items; so one would not need to be so tethered to neocron the city

  14. #29
    Bitter Old Fart Dribble Joy's Avatar
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    I think it was a degree of realism (leg armour being easier to wear than a heavy helmet for example) and to make it so the items weren't so bland in their reqs. Unlocking a whole set in one go is a bit boring and breaks the game into levels as opposed to a progression.
    You can still balance the armours for endgame of course. The level 2 inq armour is all around Str 55 or so, making them just right for capped PEs.

  15. #30

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    Realism, true. I seem to remember having a setup where I could only use 'parts' of a "Set III" and maybe two other pieces had to be a "Set II" which really bothered me, but it may have been during the process of leveling.

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