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  1. #16
    The REAL Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Holliday View Post
    Hahahah. he did it to me too. and other people. i have rolled my pe and begun levelling him. its a grind but i love it. he was a labour of love ten odd years ago and i will play him again and enjoy it. some how.
    Haha glad to hear that Im not the only one whos gonna be totally gimp
    Have your thought of what kinda setup your gonna be using?

    Im thinking of using either a no-PA tl92 pulselaser setup or a no-PA Pain Easer setup..
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  2. #17
    freedom for neocron! Torg's Avatar
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    I believe the class balancing problem is too powerful guns and too effective armour for the spy. that class should act as a combat support, driving, putting up turrets, mobile shields, drones, remote controlled vehicles. not so much of a "glass cannon" tha apu was supposed to be. true: remove the dissy, remove int-based armour, so the pe's strength will be a quality again, not a weakness.

  3. #18
    Rainy Day
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    Your suggestions are really interesting, but I fear they would finally make the PE obsolete due to be less effective than specialized classes in both - support and combat.
    That would keep PE classes away from endgame content.

    I'd rather appreciate the following class balancing:

    spy:
    speed-high
    resist-low
    dmg-med

    pe:
    speed-med
    resist-med
    dmg-med

    tank:
    speed-low
    resist-high
    dmg-med

    monk:
    speed-mid
    resist-low
    dmg-high

    Giving ppu-shields a +xyz% effect do resists.
    So a ppu+tank-team is more resistant than a ppu+apu-team while doing less dmg.
    An equalized speed-resist-dmg balancing (what might be hard to get, I guess) would equal the classes in solo-pvp.

    It's clearly simplified, I know.
    But somewhere there I'd like to see PvP-balancing.


    And finally I'd love to revive the hc-pe as it was the most fun I ever had in this game.

  4. #19
    NC2 were u fight bugs from NC1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadja [Mars] View Post
    Your suggestions are really interesting, but I fear they would finally make the PE obsolete due to be less effective than specialized classes in both - support and combat.
    That would keep PE classes away from endgame content.

    I'd rather appreciate the following class balancing:

    spy:
    speed-high
    resist-low
    dmg-med

    pe:
    speed-med
    resist-med
    dmg-med

    tank:
    speed-low
    resist-high
    dmg-med

    monk:
    speed-mid
    resist-low
    dmg-high

    Giving ppu-shields a +xyz% effect do resists.
    So a ppu+tank-team is more resistant than a ppu+apu-team while doing less dmg.
    An equalized speed-resist-dmg balancing (what might be hard to get, I guess) would equal the classes in solo-pvp.

    It's clearly simplified, I know.
    But somewhere there I'd like to see PvP-balancing.


    And finally I'd love to revive the hc-pe as it was the most fun I ever had in this game.
    Speed really shouldn't come into the equation whenever speed is largely dictated by the weapon type you have drawn (and therefore specced for).

    Simply put, balance weapon damage. This will fix a lot of the issues currently present. Once balanced, low-tech weapons should also be viable again.
    TERRA:
    Master Netphreak : Rifle PE 70/65** | Netphreak : Rifle Spy 79/65**
    Jedi Master Net : Gimped Blessed Hybird Monk 62/55**
    Kid Net : Pistol PE 63/65** | Chuck Rock : 56/58* H-C tank
    Dark Eagle : 73/56** CST Pistol Spy

  5. #20
    Huckle Beare' Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    I had an idea last night before i fell asleep. Make Woc easier for a pe to get. I can hear the boo's and hisses but its a valid arguement. Here is why.

    The balancing project is gonna be far off. im sure of that. the dev team has a lot on and its never gonna happen over night. (side note. still trying to get people to come on test server with me when im on but play time is varied atm and its not easy. i do want to help though)

    Therefore the PE is gonna be sat for a while doing pretty much nothing as everyone and their mum plays a spy or a tank. People have said however that woc isnt bad on a pe and can help give them a bit of a boost in terms of pvp ability. As it stands the pe has to get 257m xp the same as other classes. This imo isnt really fair as his main stats dont cap out at 100. They are done way before that as discussed in the thread. means he has to grind up to the equivalent of dex 100 WITHOUT the extra dex. then grind over the cap to 257m xp)

    The pe therefore (IMO) should have that percentage of overcapped xp (what ever it may be) applied to him for his dex requirement AT HIS Dex Cap. This means that at least its not SO much of a rediculous grind to get woc in the first place when you know once your there its already like fighting with one hand behind your back.

    I can already forsee people saying no no no thats a shit idea and then not being able to give valid reasons as to why but truthfully i have seen 1 single woc pe on terra. i salute that person. (dont remember his name and it could be that im out of peak time but it makes a point) Its almost the forgotten class. At least this would be a short term fix to bring back another option for people to play as really what incentive is there other than that you can level pretty quick and then put your ball gag on as soon as the LE comes out.

    If anyone wants to know and feels this is slanted towards bias as i have a pe and have always played a pe i can assure you no its not. I have capped mine and i am slow grinding him to woc. i did it once and i will do it again. im quite prepared for that. but this idea came to me and i figured well it seems daft that its been this way for so long and maybe something reasonable can be done about it now that there is feedback to the dev team etc.

    ps if anyone starts saying oh its 260m xp for woc or something as pedantic i will KOS YOU
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  6. #21
    freedom for neocron! Torg's Avatar
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    you got a valid argument, doc. PEs are sort of lost in the endgame nowadays. changing WOC could be an easy fix, this needs to be discussed further imho.

    what about (soft-) capping spy damage instead, or additionally? afaik spy damage output is considered too high, while the spy initially wasnt designed as a main fighter class. discussion needed, too.

  7. #22
    Rainy Day
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    Quote Originally Posted by Netphreak View Post
    Speed really shouldn't come into the equation whenever speed is largely dictated by the weapon type you have drawn (and therefore specced for).

    Simply put, balance weapon damage. This will fix a lot of the issues currently present. Once balanced, low-tech weapons should also be viable again.
    Yes, you are right.
    Forget my post.

    ... except the part about heavy-PE.

  8. #23
    NC2 were u fight bugs from NC1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torg View Post
    you got a valid argument, doc. PEs are sort of lost in the endgame nowadays. changing WOC could be an easy fix, this needs to be discussed further imho.

    what about (soft-) capping spy damage instead, or additionally? afaik spy damage output is considered too high, while the spy initially wasnt designed as a main fighter class. discussion needed, too.
    Specializing a spy for combat appears to have always been a intentional option for the class as they were the only ones that could realistically use weapons such as RoHL, Healing Light and First Love.

    I don't think spy damage needs soft capping, I think it's all down to weapon damage needing balanced.

    Don't forget that not everyone has a PPU glued so them so a classes defense does also matter.
    TERRA:
    Master Netphreak : Rifle PE 70/65** | Netphreak : Rifle Spy 79/65**
    Jedi Master Net : Gimped Blessed Hybird Monk 62/55**
    Kid Net : Pistol PE 63/65** | Chuck Rock : 56/58* H-C tank
    Dark Eagle : 73/56** CST Pistol Spy

  9. #24
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Spy is just as much a combat class as anyone else. For reasons stated above. Please can we refrain from nerfing other classes in order to make PE more balanced. The 100 mill over cap for a PE should be a standard and easy fix as far as I know. I think it has been suggested earlier in the thread. It would mean (I think PE dex caps at around 40m) that he is on the level playing field with the spy instead of getting the shaft.

    The Spy's description in the manual (paper version) talks about his use of exotic weaponry so yeah he definitely was meant as a combat character.

    As for the damage output of weapons.... well as we know that is a controversial issue all in itself and we have a thread for that.

    I can honestly see no reason why the PE should not get his Woc level at 100 mill over cap just like everyone else. It is simple and logical.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  10. #25
    The REAL Walker
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    I would (obviously) LOVE if WoC for PE's required less XP than it does currently! So definately /signed


    I am very much against softcaps of anything however. Speed and damage is both Things you have to spec for, and therefor will hurt in other "departments". I would love if resists were important though, so you actually would spec for resists over speed.. But hopefully that will come when the weapon balancing starts.
    And when weapon balancing starts there hopefully wont need to be a soft damage cap anyways
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  11. #26
    NC2 were u fight bugs from NC1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dropout View Post
    I would (obviously) LOVE if WoC for PE's required less XP than it does currently! So definately /signed


    I am very much against softcaps of anything however. Speed and damage is both Things you have to spec for, and therefor will hurt in other "departments". I would love if resists were important though, so you actually would spec for resists over speed.. But hopefully that will come when the weapon balancing starts.
    And when weapon balancing starts there hopefully wont need to be a soft damage cap anyways
    While I agree in general with you about softcaps, from what I remember speed used to be soft capped and it did seem to work at the time. Maybe with what I've seen on the Test Server regarding the improvements to position updates, soft capping speed just isn't really needed.
    TERRA:
    Master Netphreak : Rifle PE 70/65** | Netphreak : Rifle Spy 79/65**
    Jedi Master Net : Gimped Blessed Hybird Monk 62/55**
    Kid Net : Pistol PE 63/65** | Chuck Rock : 56/58* H-C tank
    Dark Eagle : 73/56** CST Pistol Spy

  12. #27
    Huckle Beare' Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    ignore the soft capping business but i seriously think the pe should get a fair go with the woc xp requirements. if nothing else (and i mean ignoreing the other class deficiencies) it would be fairer that he/she gets an equal shot at woc in comparison to other classes. i never did understand the logic behind making it so hard but it could easily have been a coding issue or what ever.

    damage caps etc are a whole other discussion and rightly valid but in the case of woc i think its clear cut and reasonable to ask that they lower the xp requirement for a pe. it would certainly help increase the use of the pe class in the short term while other balancing takes place in regards to weapons etc.
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    Where are the people asking for free candy or Double-XP ?

  13. #28
    Registered User \\Fényx//'s Avatar
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    Why should a PE be equally effective as anyone their up against.

    The PE is/Was always the soloists class, For optimal team play efectiveness you played one of the primary classes, Tank, Monk, Spy. the PE was a merge of the 3 allowing a bit more flexibility in solo play.

    The problem however now is that the games rebalancing in 2.2 appears to have been handled by an absolute goon. (If their still present in the community, sorry, but you really did manage to teabag the whole system...)
    TITAN
    Fenyx Rifle Spy - Fenix PPU Monk -
    Draven HC Tank - Turkish Pistol PE -
    Magneto Slotgod - Fenix-Res Researcher -

    I wish NC's soundtrack was a bit more like this ...

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  14. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by \\Fényx// View Post
    (If their still present in the community, sorry, but you really did manage to teabag the whole system...)
    Hacknet and the UI also! Someone mustve been on some good dope

    Introduce more class specific items to bring them in line with other classes, since the original scope of classes and there roles continually evolves.

  15. #30
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by \\Fényx// View Post
    Why should a PE be equally effective as anyone their up against.

    The problem however now is that the games rebalancing in 2.2 appears to have been handled by an absolute goon. (If their still present in the community, sorry, but you really did manage to teabag the whole system...)
    PE should be as effective because he has every right to be as effective. All four classes should have advantages and disadvantages over one another but all four should be as equal and fun to play.

    As for the last comment. I lol'ed hard. It is so true. I think there are still people here who contributed to the clusterfuck that is 2.2 balancing but I don't want to point any fingers and upset anyone.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

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