The role of the Pe

[William Antrim]

Bear with me on this as posting on mobile.

Reading the forum today I had an idea about the role of pe's in nc.

What do you guys think about making pe's a battlefield support class?

Think of them akin to a modern day combat medic. He or she will fight with their unit but can also provide heals and buffs to their team.

I am not sure how to do this essentially but I can see two ways.

Lower the tl of blessed buffs to make them easier for pe to use. Not the best idea as this is also a slight nerf on the ppu.

Or my more favoured idea is to bring in a new set of buffs at current psi for the pe. Essentially giving 4 levels of non rare buffs.

This would work better imo but I am concerned that the buffs might not be very strong compared with other ppu buffs etc and the pe might be ignored because his heals aren't that much better than the targets own.

The last idea I had was to possibly take away a portion of his strength and con perhaps and add some psi.

These are all very sketchy ideas which need discussion but I think hopefully that there is food for thought.

I think if psi raised to 45 or 50 at a loss of 5-10 con or strength, this might allow the pe to use better buffs, coupled with drugs or implants. I am not in game so can't check on exact levels but I figure blessed buffs could be reached at this level.

Coupled with 80 dex they can still use some decent non rare guns to defend themselves with/level.

They can change imps too for dex based ones if their role is then combat related or support if that is their job.

Sounds good?

[Drachenpaladin]

The idea sounds good, as an all-rounder support sounds logical to me. But 4 tiers of nonrare buffs?

Nanites? *duck*

A revamp of this feature is necessary anyway, so yeah, tele-injector! It shoots a small blister with buff/debuff nanites at the target or himself and would do without messing with PPU.

[William Antrim]

I know about the buffs thing but if they are store bought it will be minimal impact on the economy.

If you go for nannites then the problem is pesky spies can use them as well and therein lies the original problem.

The only forseeable work around is pe only tools but I would rather avoid that.

[Drachenpaladin]

Well, on a second thought, there is not so much need for a second supporter role besides the PPU - he's been there on this position from the start and thus is too tightly woven into the overall game concept as such.

But i think the role of the driver could be another option, if vehicles get a bit more attention some day.
The thing is, aside from the buffs ppl are already pretty self-supporting. Like with recycle, that could have been another point of a support role, the field supplier. But there is no real high level ammo/consumables maybe except for drugs...

Its the fate of the PE to be never really outstanding and unique.

[Dropout]

Hmm something I don't agree on!
I loved the old role of PE's as a solo/small scale fighter. And Im sure that by buffing the low level buffs (PAD in particular), we would be a bit closer to what they used to be.. Then its only a matter of making the lower TL weapons a little better.
Uh and maybe lower the req's for MC5's to 90dex? And Special Forces/whatever the other one is named to 80dex?
And for the love of.. Make no-PA setups viable again!! Less resists on PAs maybe? To make up for that added damage.

I always saw PE's as a slightly weaker Hybrid - but MUCH cooler!! Guns > fairy ass spells any day!

[CMaster]

The PE could already use most blessed shields (they can get up to psi 48), but only if PPU requirements are reduced. Absorber and heal are a bit further away mind.

However, improved PE psi is only ever going to be of competitive use to the PE themselves - a PPU is always going to be so much stronger, that for serious team fighting that they will always be the prefered choice. It would be nice however if a psi-focused PE would be a boon to their team in ad-hoc leveling groups and small team combat. However I don't want to see making a psi-focussed PE ever being the only way to do the PE.

At the moment, PEs have a major problem - they're just mini spies. A spy that is, in most ways, slightly worse. They have 20 less dex than spies, meaning they can't use as good weapons. They have 40 less int, meaning they can't have a sideskill (poking hacking) and be really competent with their weapons. They can't have stealth for more than a few seconds. Then the advantages they should have simply aren't there. They have 20 more strength - but the only armour this makes available to them sacrifices the poison protection that spies already get for a little more fire resistance - and meanwhile, spies can use heavy belts and tier 3 overalls (or PA), to make up for the gap, which are denied to PEs (well, without giving up a lot of dex). They have 15 more psi, however the differences in protection this makes are minimal at the moment, and they can't implant up from this due to the aforementioned high PPU requirements. Finally, PEs have 25 more con, which does have some measurable advantage, but not a lot. So PEs wind up as slightly tougher, but lower damaging and less versatile spies, who need to take more drugs (a curious turn around from before 2.2, where combat spies almost all took 2 drugs to make them a lot more like PEs). As for HC and MC PEs, the crippling of the marine and the MOVEON (and vehicles, to some extent) has killed them, not helped by the current weakness of some of their preferred weapons.

So, what can we do to fix this? How do we stop PEs being more than just a worse spy?

• Change armour around - Add energy armour in the 60-80 str range. Remove int-based overalls, int belts. All around, make the fact that PEs are stronger than spies or monks a benefit to them
• Reduce PPU reqs on spells - make utilizing psi as a PE viable. Perhaps buff tier 1 (and 2?) shields as well, to the point where PEs feel they make a difference
• Balance weapons and the costs of using them - Part of this is just the general need of the game to make weapons more sensibly distributed. Currently, weapons are all over the shop in damage. Also, there needs to be some real, compelling reason to not just use the highest TL weapon available.
• Make the Marine worth using - resurrect HC and MC PEs by making the Marine a chip that is worthy of it's rare status. Make getting useful str levels possible - if this means making the MOVEON give str again, or buffing the soldier implants as well, so be it.
• Look again at the antibuff nanites - Currently, these PE-targetted nanites are not worth using. I'm not sure I really like the idea, but perhaps they could be worth a shot, giving PEs a role to play in team combat?

As for the idea of a support-PE being possible - the idea has been around for a long, long time. Comie for example waxed lyrical about it. However, to make them actually useful once the PPU shows up, means the need for either a new skill, or (probably better) existing uses for current skills. Introducing combat medics and combat engineers into NC has been something of a fantasy of mine for a long while.

[Drachenpaladin]

Isn't the PE supposed to be a drug addict? At least thats what i got to understand. They are supposed to utilize drugs to max out his full potential. Where other classes are getting an edge from drugs its normal condition for PEs to stay viable. Couldn't you gain access to the blessed tier by doping him?

[Drachenpaladin]

Introducing combat medics and combat engineers into NC has been something of a fantasy of mine for a long while.

War conster could be funny, popping claymores, turrets and dragon's teeth/barricades on the battlefield. Or some sort of buff beacon... though that would probably get a bit too WoW'ish ^^

[William Antrim]

I want the pe to be as good as they were in nc1. Not the forgotten class they are now.

[Dropout]

I want the pe to be as good as they were in nc1. Not the forgotten class they are now.

Cant speak of NC1, but as good (or close to) as they were in NC2 would be absolutely awesome.
BTW, damn you Will.. Because of this thread I have now made a PE on... Titan..

[Chuck Norris]

pes just need class specific items since min maxing is the only way to be come powerful nowa days

[Selket]

The PE needs to be a Threat.

Alone aswell in Fullscale PVP. The best form was back in the day when the PE was viable in LOWTEC Pistol/rifle Heavy and Melee. Making him into an obscure opfight only char isnt in my opinion the best approach. Nanites should be something for the spy or as an obscure setup for the PE.

As PE you should be able to fight any class but not dominatingly strong. That means a Melee PE will always loose against a Melee Tank (disregarding skill for a minute here) and so on. The PE should have more standing power then a spy but better buffs then a tank while having an lower ability in DMG output.

So in theory like the old PE (with a few changes). PVE should also be possible without drugging his ass into nirvana.

Thats my opinion.

[Dissenter]

It would be nice if Low-tech and no PA was an option Armor is certainly Borked in my opinion!

[Dribble Joy]

The PE needs to be a Threat.

Indeed.

That means a Melee PE will always loose against a Melee Tank

However here I disagree. A PE needs to be on a completely equal footing against any other class, solo or team.

The PE should have more standing power then a spy but better buffs then a tank while having an lower ability in DMG output.

Exactly, at the moment PEs don't have the defence capacity to compete with the higher dmg output of the other classes.

[Doc Holliday]

Cant speak of NC1, but as good (or close to) as they were in NC2 would be absolutely awesome.
BTW, damn you Will.. Because of this thread I have now made a PE on... Titan..

Hahahah. he did it to me too. and other people. i have rolled my pe and begun levelling him. its a grind but i love it. he was a labour of love ten odd years ago and i will play him again and enjoy it. some how.