1. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kame View Post
    .
    Might be wrong, but I think our NC vehicles use nuclear fusion engines.
    Yep, this... tho i dunno why the vhc gunz arn't juiced by this either...
    If you want to fix the game, start with the most essential part: The Community...
    Quote Originally Posted by Danae
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  2. #92
    Savior Haxxor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kame View Post
    .
    Might be wrong, but I think our NC vehicles use nuclear fusion engines.
    Including the chaincraft & Ariel vehicles?

    -= Fallen Angels - Titan =-
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  3. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by zii View Post
    In the real world, there is not money cap. Wealth just continues to accumulate and concentrated with the wealthy. The price of every day items always increases as inflation always rises.
    This is true and therefore one of our most serious real world problems! Of course there is no cap, but there is no real value behind money, either. and money is created through loans which means there are always more debts than money exists, leading to concentration of wealth on the one hand, the illusion of companies having to grow to be healthy (as they need to follow the by itself growing amount of money) and exponentially rising inflation which leads to crisis after crisis.

    And this exactly what we shall avoid where we can. in the real world, we can't simply because law says we have to use euros, dollars, pounds or whatever to pay which we have no influence on.
    but in nc this is different. here we have the ability to influence 'god' aka the dev team and create a stable economy where the value of money stays more or less constant for everyone over time.

    has anyone of you noticed that money already starts to become worthless on titan again? I remember 2 weeks ago everyone was asking for a barter even for small purchases.
    now I already rarely see the need for barters and people start using rare parts as currency. sooner or later economy will be spoiled again because everyone has everything.

    this is still a lot better than in the real world, where at the end only one person will have everything, simply due to interest calculations.

    to come to an end here: we DO need a money sink. but it has to be adjustable to the current economic situation on the server. one-shots might bring a short-lived improvement but are no real solution.

  4. #94

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    Well i think a core problem is the kill reward. As stupid as that may sound. But we have unlimited mobs so we generate unlimited money.
    A more elaborated reward concept would probably be required and i'm not sure if the current incarnation of NC can support this.

    Kill rewards should be payed from the faction budged of the faction you run the mission for. The lower the faction budget the higher the prices of faction services to raise the income of the faction.
    Of course this system needs external factors i.e. outside money sources and ofc. outside money sinks too. This way a part of the money can vapor from the system but also can flow in, but i'd rather see game mechanics in that place then the hand of GMs. Or else ppl will just "rely on the saving hand" instead of try to engage them selfs. This way i think we can avoid bankruptcy of a faction due to downward spirals. The monopolies are another way to prevent these, this way players can't simply abandon a faction if the prices skyrocket, triggering aforementioned downward spiral. (Tricky is just the part where you find a monopoly for some of the Neutral/Anti-CA factions but i think the item pool is big enough.)

    Also this proposes the possibility to give the faction chairmen and -women a bit more influence and function right now they are selected and can... do what exactly? I'm not sure what power they hold right now. But it doesn't seem to matter that much.

    €dit: An idea that just came to my mind: As faction chairmen you should have get the possibility and/or duty to decide over the faction budget in the fashion of devising funds to a military, an economical and a social budget. This affects various aspects as the following: If you cut the military budget in favor of the economy budget items in the factions shops will become cheaper but the faction guards will also become weaker. The social budget could control stuff like GR-costs (and maybe rents if introduced).

    However rentals i think are not such a great solution in general.
    Last edited by Drachenpaladin; 12-10-12 at 17:11.
    If you want to fix the game, start with the most essential part: The Community...
    Quote Originally Posted by Danae
    <&Danae> i don't like anything that's furry, totally dependant on me, and shits and pisses in sneaky places
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  5. #95
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    I don't think it is necessary, considering Neocron was always a place with very high prices the players selling stuff really cheap you can't even buy a 150 tool under 1 million without a barter. From the view of a regular shop in NC most players sacrifice goods.
    Alles wird gut!

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  6. #96

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    "it was always messed up" is not an argument to leave it that way.

    I like drachen's money pool ideas but still I doubt if any of our creations here can actually make it into the game.
    but who knows, maybe into nc3?

  7. #97

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    Too lazy to read the whole thread again...

    One effektiv moneysink would be to increase dynamically (level) the GR fees. E.G. 20k for a fully leveled character to a distant location.

  8. #98

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    Feature Request:

    Create a possibility for the server managers to deflate or inflate prices!

    For example: When the economy gets fucked again prices could be increased by 5%.

    That isn't only an effectiv moneysink, it can also be used for roleplaying and it makes the game more interesting for tradeskillers too.
    I think that it would enhance the nc-immerson greatly, because it solves severe problems with the economy.

  9. #99
    Profit, Terras Barter Nr. 1 Ashanti's Avatar
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    Pretty great discussion here. Thats what i like

    GR costs a % amount of our money
    OPs cost Money
    Apartment rent (the chance of showing ur wealth would make us Tradergirlies celebrate ) Starterap should be free but no additional Cupboards can be placed.
    Reduce or Scratch the Kill-Mob-Money (loot if you need cash)

    Come up with some goodies one could pay for like a Bartender in our Ap or Clanap
    Lom Pills should cost ten times of their current prize
    Last edited by Ashanti; 14-03-13 at 18:35.
    Terras Barter Nr. 1 is back

    now known as Real Profit

    More Profit with Profit

  10. #100

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    gogus anyone"?

  11. #101
    Registered User Assimilator's Avatar
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    Why don't we have an auction house system yet? Or are we still hoping player shops will eventually make a comeback? I personally detest player shops (Ragnarok Online style) vs. a centralized global marketplace.

  12. #102
    Drakor Trent Deno's Avatar
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    I think a lot could be gained by lowering the credit reward upon killing mobs. Instead, mobs would occasionally drop valuable junk. So for example, when hunting sewer rats, 1 in 10 might drop a piece of junk worth say 1,400 nc. This would mean that if players wanted to gain money from PvE they would need to loot every mob. The fact that junk loot would be uncommon but valuable negates the problem of inventory space issues. This solution would make no practical difference except for runners who powerlevel in AoE dungeons.

    I've spent the last few days leveling in El Farid on a droner and tbh the credits you can make is ridiculous. You just sit there holding the LMB and get 1000nc every few seconds.

    I reckon that on average there are three droners in the lower level at any one time (probably 4-5 at peak then ~0 at night). I also estimate that in any one instance, there are a total of 150 creeps that will be killed in one reset cycle. Each one gives ~1000nc. I estimate it takes about 20 minutes per reset cycle. This simple Fermi calculation predicts roughly 10,800,000nc entering the economy every 24hrs from El Farid alone (i've made the assumption that player costs are negligible).

    Based on the statistic that there is ~5 billion nc accumulated already and since the server has been up for ~120 days, this means on average at least 40 million nc enters the economy every day. This is of course an underestimate since probably at least a quarter or more of the money entering the system does leave it within a reasonable amount of time (GRs, armour, ammo, appartments etc).

    Combining these two numbers suggests that a dungeon such as El Farid could be contributing up to one quarter of all money in the game. This is obviously an overestimate since the 10mil figure was probably overoptimistic, and the figure of 5 bil in the game probably represents the remainder of a total of at least 10 billion that has entered since the server began. Hence El Farid dungeon alone could be contributing around a tenth of the total money into the game (this doesn't surprise me in the slightest). Thus my suggestion of removing cash rewards and including greater loot rewards could easily address some of the serious economy issues.

    If the suggestion I have made was implemented, then AoE droners could still happily power level, but if you wanted to actually make money you would probably want to hunt warbots or firemobs (which indeed do not provide quite as insane a rate of XP).
    Last edited by Deno; 16-03-13 at 04:45.

  13. #103
    Custom User Title braydagner's Avatar
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    The money problem is not solved by lessening the money from mobs. The money problem is solved by money sinks, especially at higher levels.

    I have always liked the idea of uncapped GR fees. Also, owning an OP should cost money (helps to keep the map looking like it currently does, instead of 2 or 3 clans owning every OP).

    Apartment rent? I don't want to leave for a month and come back and have to farm money to get back into my apartment.

    I saw an idea of eliminating advanced ammo from being recycled. Yes and no, this is a good money sink, but pretty crappy when you are leveling and you have to run all the way back to a gogo for more ammo.

    But to be quite honest, the economy is not nearly as bad as it was on Terra, for instance. Yes, there is a lot of money, but many things traded at higher levels use trades instead of money. Money becomes obsolete, and therefore having a lot of it doesn't matter (other than making a pretty sweet apartment). Think of new players, also. Think of how much it costs to make a new weapon. You take away kill rewards and new players are left with shitty starter weapons for a lot longer than they be.

    What about adding a price for building rare weapons? Add a vendor where you have to buy the blueprint of the rare weapon (ranging in prices based on techlevel and possibly how often the bp is purchased) and have the tech parts remain as the 'weapon parts'.

  14. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by braydagner View Post
    The money problem is not solved by lessening the money from mobs. The money problem is solved by money sinks, especially at higher levels.

    I have always liked the idea of uncapped GR fees. Also, owning an OP should cost money (helps to keep the map looking like it currently does, instead of 2 or 3 clans owning every OP).

    Apartment rent? I don't want to leave for a month and come back and have to farm money to get back into my apartment.

    I saw an idea of eliminating advanced ammo from being recycled. Yes and no, this is a good money sink, but pretty crappy when you are leveling and you have to run all the way back to a gogo for more ammo.

    But to be quite honest, the economy is not nearly as bad as it was on Terra, for instance. Yes, there is a lot of money, but many things traded at higher levels use trades instead of money. Money becomes obsolete, and therefore having a lot of it doesn't matter (other than making a pretty sweet apartment). Think of new players, also. Think of how much it costs to make a new weapon. You take away kill rewards and new players are left with shitty starter weapons for a lot longer than they be.

    What about adding a price for building rare weapons? Add a vendor where you have to buy the blueprint of the rare weapon (ranging in prices based on tech level and possibly how often the bp is purchased) and have the tech parts remain as the 'weapon parts'.

    I'm not sure I like the idea of a fee to control OPs, but I would be in favor of high level GR fees increased fairly dramatically (say... 20k per gr at max distance). Furthermore, the GR discount to GR from an apartment should be removed.

    I really like the cost component to build rares and things. The easiest way to implement this would likely be via a very expensive gel....

  15. #105
    Bitter Old Fart Dribble Joy's Avatar
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    The issue is really the lack of end-game cash sinks. Leveling requires almost all of what you earn to go into your next weapon, imp or whatever. At the end-game you have all of those, or you get them from loot (Rares, MC5s, missions, etc.). Aside from 'unnecessary' sinks like apartments, there is little that you need to spend your cash on.

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