1. #16
    Final Boss of the Internet Kanedax's Avatar
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    That's a good idea with the Outposts, you could even make it so some cost more than others to maintain and also implement an income system from the ops. For instance, fortresses could have a maintenance cost that is higher than their income, factories the opposite, etc. This would add a certain strategy to the acquisition of ops as well as make the economy slightly more dynamic. Granted, I'm no programmer so I have no idea if it'd be realistic to implement this sort of change, just food for thought.

  2. #17
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    I would prefer that ALL ops COST money to hold. If the idea is to get money OUT of the economy then we dont want clans going inactive while holding ops and then them having them forever. The ops would need to confer significant bonuses to the players though. IE something more than just a bit of tech combat at the Fortresses etc.

    We would need more levelling spots in op zones too to make them worth having.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  3. #18

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    I wouldn't make the cost for OPs mandatory but optional. Like maintenance cost. If you pay them, your OPs defense is better, if you don't pay after the fight for repairs the OP is easier to hack and/or the bonus is the OP gives is weaker. (Possible effect on turrets too should their role increase someday)
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  4. #19
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Pay a fortune to restore your hack layers you mean?
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  5. #20
    Final Boss of the Internet Kanedax's Avatar
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    Yeah, I was implying that all outposts would cost money to maintain but that certain outposts would cost more/give less based on the type of outpost. For instance, a fortress would cost money to maintain but provide no income as it is not an economic asset. Factories should actually provide more income than they cost to maintain as they are factories. Labs would provide little income as well as uplinks.

    This would, in my opinion, offer an interesting experience and a new layer to the outpost system. For example, your clan holds mainly non-productive (economically) outposts so the next logical move would be to focus on factories. It would add an element of need to the system and maybe force choices of action that previously would have been unconventional.

  6. #21
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanedax View Post
    Yeah, I was implying that all outposts would cost money to maintain but that certain outposts would cost more/give less based on the type of outpost. For instance, a fortress would cost money to maintain but provide no income as it is not an economic asset. Factories should actually provide more income than they cost to maintain as they are factories. Labs would provide little income as well as uplinks.

    This would, in my opinion, offer an interesting experience and a new layer to the outpost system. For example, your clan holds mainly non-productive (economically) outposts so the next logical move would be to focus on factories. It would add an element of need to the system and maybe force choices of action that previously would have been unconventional.
    I like the idea truthfully but it would mean that the profit making ops would become premium compared to the others and hence would probably just get hit all the time. I would prefer op ownership to be something highly coveted but hugely costly as well. If a clan is at the top of its game then it should have penalties to pay to be that good. I would still I think rather have more money come out of the economy than have ops making a profit for clans.

    If we are gonna go down your thinking Kanedax then I believe that we would need to implement something like what Drachenpaladin suggested to counteract it. The premium profit making ops would give you money but that profit would be counteracted by the cost of the op needing to have its security reset and hence it would cost money to keep hold of it.

    I like the amalgamation. I am all up for that.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  7. #22

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    great idea! love it. let's make ops cost a whole lot of money and increase their bonusses.
    that way at least the factories and labs would be high value and still very expensive to afford.
    perfect money sinks.

    love it

    still this could be auto-regulated:
    in the beginning of a server live, ops bring money to establish a certain amount of money in game. the regulation script then slowly decreases op income until the global money cap is reached. from then on, op incomes will become negative, resulting in the described money sink ...

  8. #23
    Final Boss of the Internet Kanedax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    I like the idea truthfully but it would mean that the profit making ops would become premium compared to the others and hence would probably just get hit all the time. I would prefer op ownership to be something highly coveted but hugely costly as well. If a clan is at the top of its game then it should have penalties to pay to be that good. I would still I think rather have more money come out of the economy than have ops making a profit for clans.

    If we are gonna go down your thinking Kanedax then I believe that we would need to implement something like what Drachenpaladin suggested to counteract it. The premium profit making ops would give you money but that profit would be counteracted by the cost of the op needing to have its security reset and hence it would cost money to keep hold of it.

    I like the amalgamation. I am all up for that.
    To clarify further, the money making outposts wouldn't provide a huge profit, maybe like 1000 credits every 24 hours in real world time. There would be no economic advantage to the outposts aside from not having to pay to maintain them.

  9. #24

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    I like the idea of ops being a moneysink, but I also think that having pve for hours just to be able to afford to hold an op would be a bad idea, if you're good enough, it shouldn't require pve to keep outposts up (I'd say the majority of players in the game don't want to spend their time pve'ing). I know bigger clans like ad and doy have loads of money, but a pvp clan generally doesn't have millions to spend on op upkeep (opkeep, hehe, seewotididthur! )
    ingame names: Biglines (dissy spy), Mr Tool (low tech tank), Engineer Tool (constructor), Medical Tool (ppu/hacker/poker), Father Tool (apu)

  10. #25
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Then ops should change hands. That's what its all about.

  11. #26
    Slaving over Sony Vegas CMaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanedax View Post
    I was coming in here to say the same thing. A working StockX would make me moist.
    For the 50th time, StockX works!
    However, it only allows trades during the trading day (game time). It even tells you those times in game.
    I'd even say that the fact that on Terra, a lot of the stock had fallen to 1nc/share as player pops had dived and were almost all capped players anyway, that the indications are that it does indeed respond to player actions.

  12. #27

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    I think it would be cool if there was the possibility to get into depts when investing into the stock market, just like in real. That would create a money sink for sure^^
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  13. #28
    Final Boss of the Internet Kanedax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CMaster View Post
    For the 50th time, StockX works!
    However, it only allows trades during the trading day (game time). It even tells you those times in game.
    I'd even say that the fact that on Terra, a lot of the stock had fallen to 1nc/share as player pops had dived and were almost all capped players anyway, that the indications are that it does indeed respond to player actions.
    I feel thoroughly chastised.

  14. #29

    Default Economy idea: money sinks

    I realize that this is a long-term idea, the team has their hands full as it is and I don't expect that anything would be done about the economy of the game in the short or even medium-term.


    I don't think that the problem of inflation can be solved on the input side (reducing access to cash by closing AoE farming areas and shutting down Ceres). The reason is that even at the reduced income rate cash is still flowing into the economy, long-term, faster than it flows out by far.

    Titan's economy is alright for the moment, because apartment keys, vehicles and other expenses that it takes to set up a character are taking money out of the economy. The problem is once you are set up, you have nothing to spend that money on that takes it out of the economy, it just circulates and accumulates.


    I had a few ideas: the faction stores are a good start, rather than Rhinos being constructed from some dropped parts you have to drop a good chunk of change.

    But at the end of the day, the best items in the game are dropped or quest-rewarded, a top-end player has little to spend money on except perhaps a few more apartments to stash rare parts.



    I have a few suggestions:

    This game needs a money sink, Outpost fighting is a significant one, especially once turrets are allowed again.

    Bring back Stock-X, only with a twist. Rather than allowing people to make money based on faction performance, allow us to spend our money to improve the performance of corporations (in some way).

    One idea I had was a sort of provisions system. Unless the player base (as a whole) spends a certain amount of money the faction store remains closed, and without regular investment it closes after X number of items sold. This way epic-grade characters would have a place to pour NC.

    Another idea was allowing people to donate NC to corporations for standings, this way you'd have people burning cash raising standings, not earning cash farming standings competing with newbies nuking aggie spawns or grinding research missions.

    A third idea was to introduce prestige items that are functionally identical but have a slightly different appearance or name.

    Prestige items and access to a special "villa" chat channel that cost millions to gain access to were how Kingdom of Loathing removed billions in exploit-gained items from the economy and it worked well enough they didn't have to resort to a server wipe even though the economy had hyperinflated several thousand times in a week.

  15. #30
    Highest Ranked Psi-Monk Ever Forget My Name's Avatar
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    Not once on any server where duping wasn't around, from 2002 - 2007 when I was playing, was money ever an issue. I wasn't around for Terra.

    I don't see the need for any extra money sinks.

    And of course, why isn't this posted in the Brainport?
    Last edited by Forget My Name; 27-09-12 at 03:13.
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