1. #16
    The REAL Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruder Malmsdoo View Post
    Without an explanation your thesis lacks the force to convince other people. Why ist that idea horrible?

    We need things that help indentifying with a faction. The Reveller is no overpowered VHC also.
    thesis??

    I think its a horrible idea, because faction requirements in general is a bad idea - IMO all faction requirements should be removed.

  2. #17

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    And why are faction based requirements in general a bad idea? Your arguments lack justification. That is why i cannot understand your attidude. The Reveller is not very strong in PVP and PVE and ergo gives no unjustified advantages.

  3. #18
    Tech Haven Network Brammers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dribble Joy View Post
    Remove VHC req. Tie vehicle speed, handling and traction to VHC.

    Remove HC req for vehicle weapons, base weapon performance off primarily WEP, but also all the main combat skills, PC, RC, HC, MC, RCL, etc.
    Like the idea of linking VHC to speed, handling and traction. Would make for some interesting races as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruder Malmsdoo View Post
    Yes... only a NEXT-member (not my prefered faction) should be able to drive it. We have these kind of reqirements on other faction items too (CA-Armor, CM-Chip, ...). Other factions can use the 4x4 chaincraft. Also the Jones-Quad doesn't blow up. Thats why we see so few other vhc-types used.
    CM-Chip does not have a faction requirement http://www.techhaven.org/db/showitem/1757.html The only epic items with a faction requirement is the CA-Armour.

    P.S. I don't like the idea of faction-only items, it can limit the choices of setups.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruder Malmsdoo View Post
    And why are faction based requirements in general a bad idea? Your arguments lack justification. That is why i cannot understand your attidude.
    It stops the items from being traded.
    And IMO that is a bad thing - I have done many epics in the past, and have sold most of them, since there was a lot of those rewards that I did not need myself.

    And some of the Epic items are too good for being one faction only (PPR).

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruder Malmsdoo View Post
    Also the Jones-Quad doesn't blow up. Thats why we see so few other vhc-types used.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dropout View Post
    And Neo; The Quad (from the Driver-Jones mission) is indestructible aswell.
    Which I dont mind btw - It IS from a Jones mission, so you shouldnt be able to Loose it - just like all the other Jones rewards.
    My bad, I completely forgot about the Jones-Quad!
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  6. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dropout View Post
    It stops the items from being traded.
    And IMO that is a bad thing - I have done many epics in the past, and have sold most of them, since there was a lot of those rewards that I did not need myself.

    And some of the Epic items are too good for being one faction only (PPR).
    But you can still buy/trade the 4x4-Chaincraft and nobody spoke of making the PPR faction-only.
    Problem remains: Nobody uses destructibe VHCs, except the tank for hunting.
    Last edited by Bruder Malmsdoo; 19-09-12 at 15:13.

  7. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brammers View Post
    P.S. I don't like the idea of faction-only items, it can limit the choices of setups.
    Brammers, me too. I only talk of the Reveller. That won't limit the choice of setups. Generally a good argument, but it doesn't fit here.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruder Malmsdoo View Post
    But you can still buy/trade the 4x4-Chaincraft and nobody spoke of making the PPR faction-only.
    Problem remains: Nobody uses destructibe VHCs, except the tank for hunting.
    But if the Reveler gets a faction requirement tag, why not all the faction epics?
    IMO if one Epic has a faction requirement tag, they all should - thats why Im very much against faction requirements.

    Hmm since when does anyone use the Reveler though? o.O
    Didnt think anyone used anything but Quads and flying stuff (gliders and hoverbomber/carrier)..

  9. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dropout View Post
    But if the Reveler gets a faction requirement tag, why not all the faction epics?
    IMO if one Epic has a faction requirement tag, they all should - thats why Im very much against faction requirements.

    Hmm since when does anyone use the Reveler though? o.O
    Didnt think anyone used anything but Quads and flying stuff (gliders and hoverbomber/carrier)..
    Because that solves a problem and doesn't create new. When you remove the indestructability of the Quad the next thing ist, that the people again use the Reveller.

  10. #25
    Tech Haven Network Brammers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruder Malmsdoo View Post
    But you can still buy/trade the 4x4-Chaincraft and nobody spoke of making the PPR faction-only.
    Problem remains: Nobody uses destructibe VHCs, except the tank for hunting.
    The PPR is also indestructible. It never looses quality when it is repaired. (In fact all faction epic items are indestructible) If you are going to add faction requirement to Revellers you need to look at the bigger picture of adding faction requirement to every epic item. And using a reveller for hunting can be considered just as part a setup to the gun you use. Anyone I think faction requirements on items is another topic entirely.

    However we are looking at this the wrong way around. Maybe we should make all vehicles indestructible. Or perhaps when we have made the vehicle key, we can mod the key with a expensive "Insurance" mod - so the player just has to pay the small repair bill at the ASG, like it is now for the Jones and Reveller, instead of the player being left with a useless key.
    Last edited by Brammers; 19-09-12 at 15:33.

  11. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brammers View Post
    If you are going to add faction requirement to Revellers you need to look at the bigger picture of adding faction requirement to every epic item.
    I don't understand why we automatically must give that status to all other epic-items, when the REV becomes fac-only. The one doesn't force the other in my opinion. Also it is obvious, that not all things in NC are perfectly logic. We haven't the ressources (and ideas) to build a whole new game-system that is logic in itself and 100% balanced at the same time. What we now need are pratical solutions to the biggest problems to create a more coloured and fair game-experience.

    Your proposal would fix the problem too, but i think it damages an important aspect of a plausible game-world: realism. Also it removes a neccessary money-sink (-->economy)

  12. #27

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    I quite like the idea of removing vehicle requirements or atleast making them lower as I agree driving is a secondary skill.

    Regarding the Reveler, I think the problem here is how easy it is to get it back. After all it blows up like any other vehicle the only difference is its still repairable by an ASG, this is the part I think should change.

    Upon destruction the Reveler should act like any other vehicle, you now have a dead key which is of no use. To get a new reveler you should have to take this dead key to a NeXT employee at their test facility i.e. Desert Racetrack. The NPC will then swap the keys for a new functional key and remove the old one, taking it out of the ecosystem. To make this work for enemies the NPC can of course be crooked, happy to serve allies as expected but will also give a nod to NeXT defectors as long as he was never there to give you the key wink wink nudge nudge.

    This should also be the case for the Newbie Quad, using a neutral NPC from the Driver Jones mission or another NPC which fits the story of that item.

    This means you remove the magic button for these vehicles which is the reason they're used above and beyond everything else. They would still be the first choice as you get it back when it goes boom but you'd then have people with reserve vehicles as they cant just run back to the ASG and respawn the same one all the time. This keep these vehicles important as you still get a vehicle for life, you just have to go out of your way to get it, which is probably enough of a reason for people to buy and use other vehicles. You could even take this to the next level and have these NPCs charge for a replacement key but at a lower cost than ASG repairs/a new equivilent vehicle. If that were done too, we'd also have another nice new money sink the game so desperately needs.

    This gets around most of the "unfair" bonuses of these vehicles, I think?

  13. #28
    Tech Haven Network Brammers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruder Malmsdoo View Post
    I don't understand why we automatically must give that status to all other epic-items, when the REV becomes fac-only. The one doesn't force the other in my opinion. Also it is obvious, that not all things in NC are perfectly logic. We haven't the ressources (and ideas) to build a whole new game-system that is logic in itself and 100% balanced at the same time. What we now need are pratical solutions to the biggest problems to create a more coloured and fair game-experience.
    FYI are 14 Faction epic items - http://www.techhaven.org/db/view/epic.html

    Adding faction requirements does not make the game more coloured and fair game-experience. In fact as you just argued, it makes the game more restrictive, and certainly less coloured. As I said repetitively you can't just suddenly add a faction requirement to a an epic item, without looking at the rest of the epic items. For a start, PP runners with non-drivable revellers will be demanding that their PPR chips are PP only. As a Fallen Angel runner, I certainly won't want NEXT runners using Techhaven CPU if I can't drive their Reveller... Hopefully you got the picture now

  14. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brammers View Post
    FYI are 14 Faction epic items - http://www.techhaven.org/db/view/epic.html

    Adding faction requirements does not make the game more coloured and fair game-experience. In fact as you just argued, it makes the game more restrictive, and certainly less coloured. As I said repetitively you can't just suddenly add a faction requirement to a an epic item, without looking at the rest of the epic items. For a start, PP runners with non-drivable revellers will be demanding that their PPR chips are PP only. As a Fallen Angel runner, I certainly won't want NEXT runners using Techhaven CPU if I can't drive their Reveller... Hopefully you got the picture now
    C'mon we have that situation with the CA-Armor for a long time...truly noone cares, although it really affects the PVP-setup-possibilities. I want so see the various vehicle-types used in NC, atm they are quite useless content. That is what I mean with colorfull.

    @ Tratos: Interesting Ideas
    Last edited by Bruder Malmsdoo; 19-09-12 at 17:57.

  15. #30
    The REAL Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruder Malmsdoo View Post
    C'mon we have that situation with the CA-Armor for a long time...truly noone cares, although it really affects the PVP-setup-possibilities. I want so see the various vehicle-types used in NC, atm they are quite useless content. That is what I mean with colorfull.

    @ Tratos: Interesting Ideas
    Yes, and that faction restriction should be removed.

    What your really trying to say, is that you want to be the only one using a Reveler, since noone else (especially people who pvp's) is NEXT..


    @Tratos;
    Very good idea. However, I fear that it would require too much Work, for something that really doesnt matter.

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