Neocron Reloaded

[NS_CHROME54]

But if you eliminate the lockbox, then you have to deal with other side effects as well. For example, someone with maxed out PC or HC skill could conceivably start sniping at mobs/players from well outside the intended range of said weapons. You'd then have to start looking at things like reducing damage over distance when certain distance thresholds are reached. Then you'd have to justify it in turn, because bullets/projectiles don't just "disappear." You'll then have to introduce things like reducing projectile speed over distance and gravity arcs for bullet-based weapons. And even if you do that, you could still potentially see OP fights being started by a group of players just pointing their weapons towards the outpost on the other side of the zone, knowing that their fire is going to fall on the defenders. That's not a fight, it's a bombardment.

I guess what I'm getting at is that the current stats setup makes sense with the current lockbox targeting method. I honestly don't believe it would if true FPS style combat were to be introduced. You'd have to rework the whole system into something that is no longer recognizable.

(For the record though, I do agree that 3rd person combat is borked.)

Also, one other change I'd really like to see is increased draw distance. It made sense to cap it 10 years ago, but not anymore.

[Jaeon]

Also, one other change I'd really like to see is increased draw distance. It made sense to cap it 10 years ago, but not anymore.

Clearly this, although not being able to see farther away adds to the mood and mystery of the game.

Solution: Dense Fog of War on dangerous areas, clear skies on regular zones!

[CMaster]

But if you eliminate the lockbox, then you have to deal with other side effects as well. For example, someone with maxed out PC or HC skill could conceivably start sniping at mobs/players from well outside the intended range of said weapons. You'd then have to start looking at things like reducing damage over distance when certain distance thresholds are reached. Then you'd have to justify it in turn, because bullets/projectiles don't just "disappear." You'll then have to introduce things like reducing projectile speed over distance and gravity arcs for bullet-based weapons. And even if you do that, you could still potentially see OP fights being started by a group of players just pointing their weapons towards the outpost on the other side of the zone, knowing that their fire is going to fall on the defenders. That's not a fight, it's a bombardment.

I guess what I'm getting at is that the current stats setup makes sense with the current lockbox targeting method. I honestly don't believe it would if true FPS style combat were to be introduced. You'd have to rework the whole system into something that is no longer recognizable.
.

No reason maxxing out PC or HC would let you snipe. You know what the achievable PC and HC are. You tune so that it only ever gets down to as accurate as you want it - it would be pretty easy to implement a logarithmic improvement in aim, or just put in a hard cap. There's no need to implement stuff like bullet drop in NC. Most FPSes have no problem with range falloff, or osmetimes even range caps. Hell, existing NC has arbitary range caps.

And the damage, frequency, resistance calculations etc need not be effected in any way by the change in systems.

[Drachenpaladin]

But if you eliminate the lockbox, then you have to deal with other side effects as well. For example, someone with maxed out PC or HC skill could conceivably start sniping at mobs/players from well outside the intended range of said weapons. You'd then have to start looking at things like reducing damage over distance when certain distance thresholds are reached. Then you'd have to justify it in turn, because bullets/projectiles don't just "disappear." You'll then have to introduce things like reducing projectile speed over distance and gravity arcs for bullet-based weapons.

Thats pretty much the solution, in addition to a spread cone for bullet weapons.
The beams of energy weapons diffuse the longer they travel. Projectiles to, they burn up or what ever, otherwise they would have to be self sustaining pertuum mobiles.

And even if you do that, you could still potentially see OP fights being started by a group of players just pointing their weapons towards the outpost on the other side of the zone, knowing that their fire is going to fall on the defenders. That's not a fight, it's a bombardment.

I have yet to witness this in [Insert generic first person shooter with physical ballistics]...
Srsly, you think the camp with their Gatlins and let it rain lead?!
Ok, it "would" be possible, but not very effective.
As for grenades, thats their purpose and rockets ignite after a certain travel-time.

[Dribble Joy]

For example, someone with maxed out PC or HC skill could conceivably start sniping at mobs/players from well outside the intended range of said weapons.

Why?

You could easily set the maximum range and spread of any given weapon (pistols already have a max range at which the recticle is maxed and doesn't close). The spread doesn't have to be a linear cone either; it could 'trumpet' out along an exponential course such that it get proportionally worse at range. Or whatever spread profile you might wish to implement for an given weapon

You'd have to rework the whole system into something that is no longer recognizable.

Well... yes... if we are talking about removing the target box (note that the recticle could remain, indicating current spread at whatever you're pointing at), then we are talking about a serious reworking of how aiming works and therefore an integral part of the game.

[NS_CHROME54]

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then. I like the current system.

[Riddle]

WHOAAAAA there lads!

I do not advocate a WOW style Auction House where all items would be so easily at hand, that true tradeskillers would be out of business.

The whole process of trade in Neocron was, and is simply amazing.

The interaction (within a resonable player base) is what makes it so unique in many ways, not only building trust over time, before you hand over those o' so precious rare parts! But in all the elements in the transaction!!

I had my contacts, they had me and we supported the player base in destruction of each other!! occasionally logging our own well geared alts to participate in PvP under an pseudonym, not linked to your tradeskiller in any way, as to avoid any disgruntled customers

Many times i would dispatch a runner from the world of NC, only to be repairing the gear of that poor runner, of course unbeknownst to him!

The interaction is what makes it.

I call on my barter (profit where r u ) i miss the old "more profit, with profit" slogan......anyways he would run me some gear, i would employ a resser to give me those secret plans in the form of a cube, i would then churn out numerous weapons until i was lucky enough to get a decent 4-5 slot standard weapon to sell on. all the spares went back through the barter to the NPC. 2-3 slots. modded and dished out to the low level runners for free, everyone gotta start somewhere.....they always came back....

I had an awsome shop, yes with guards to protect me, butonly from you unscrupulous red soul light divas, but then thats NC, it is just a matter of time before you get gunned down! man i miss it.....

I would run player auctions, sell trade items, implants from biotech, those hard to get hacknet items, construct rares for runners who only trusted me to actually hand back that all arti 5 slot rare and share in their excitement when i did hand it back!!!

The fact that runners out there are sporting a 5 slot weapon with my name on it is also a nice plus, you just got pwned by logans wepaon, man he makes some good shit

Player Shops!
As i seem them anyways.

Zoned shops,so they take up no space!
In this shop apartment, available to buy like a normal appy, but would only be in one lift location.

Outside would be an apartment address book, much like the existing citycom, (thinking here of adapting current play mechanics, rather then some awsome idea that won't get of the ground) In this address book anyone who owns one of these shop apartments can place an advert of their services, from here you would also see the pass to get to this shop.

Once there you would be met by 3 possible shop environments, small medium and FUCKING large!

The large one i'm thinking would be like a tradeskill clan, you could find res, rep, cst etc all in the one place.

The tradeskliier would have to be there for you to buy or interact etc. But you could buy low level items from my NPC and he could advertise when you would be in game next, would be Kind of like an out of office


Atmoshphere

In tradeskill and PvP alike the fact that you had to EARN this trust, and you could be known for your exploits was a fantastic thing in NC, in fact never seen it in any other game and i been playing a few over the years!

I remember getting gunned down in my shop, expressing my annoyance in trade, and then be inundated with runners coming to my aid. Much to my wry sense of humour, as numerous dog tags of the idividual in question where thrown at my feet...lol...that came from people knowing me...... and what i stood for, in a game we all love so dearly. You trusted me..

Logans Emporium....the name you CAN trust.....

Good hunting runners........

[tarasm]

I gotta agree, neocron wont be neocron without its current targetting

[Hell-demon]

Well, hopefully we'll have aiming with iron sights and regenerating health.


What?

[Biglines]

and remember, the point of the current targeting system is that it is very easy on connections and the server, meaning that 100vs100 opfights are possible, which are definitely NOT possible with normal fps targeting (not on unity at least )

[r2d22k]

I think the basic aiming system as it is should be kept, it made neocron a hell lot of fun. You had to "think" twice before shooting, because else you would waste a whole burst. Sure this is not realistic, but it is fun! But it is true that the current implementation needs some fixing. The server never should trust the client, really never! The server should be the only one who decides something. So hitscans, traces and such should be done/verified also on the server's side, else we all know what happens

[Dribble Joy]

I also personally prefer the current system, it's not a twitch-fest like CS, you have to 'aim'. I was imply pointing out that it would be possible to use another system.

What needs to happen though is that the aiming chance of all weapons for a given reticule closure needs to be the same. Compare the xbow with a libby for example (or any other weapon for that matter).

[NS_CHROME54]

One other idea (and I don't know how well this would fly) would be to introduce lower TL tiers of rare items. Neocron really doesn't have much going on in the way of item diversity and it's generally a climb to the level cap before you really get any cool stuff. Introducing lower level rares would give noobs something to do, and would also help to teach them about the game's rare itemization in the earlier stages of the game. For my part, I didn't know anything about rares until I saw someone using a Paw of Tiger for the first time outside Jericho and I DM'd the guy, asking him "What's with the swirly thingy?"

Another thing that I'm not sure how other people feel about, but I know that I don't like, is the whole FSM system. It might work better with more players, but with the current playerbase, it simply makes some items too hard to get, if not impossible.

[Solanox]

I'm with Logan, no auction houses! I never really had time to play NC more than a month at a time before just recently, and I want the chance to gain that kind of experience he had as he built his way up as a tradeskiller! It sounds like a blast, and I certainly wouldn't want that personal touch to go by the wayside when suddenly everything is just getting thrown up on a shelf together.

AH's kill game economies, too. When everyone can see everyone elses' prices, it becomes undercut central. x_x Neocron as it is has that bargaining and haggling atmosphere when it comes to trading. Nobody's really ever sure how much they have to pay for a good or service, and working out your own personal price table is a big part of the experience!

[Chuck Norris]

Auction house is the games economy, guys you gotta evolve a little bit, its definitely needed, I dunno about you guys..... but i love my 10 apts full of parts.......................................NOT!

reloaded would be wise to have one