Neocron brainport: Your ideas, suggestions and wishes

[FarSight]

That is not exactly a suggestion but i will write it anyway.
In all my gamming years and its many years as i started on ZX Spectrum [37 years old atm] only 2 MMO [3 if you count NC1 and NC2 as different games] were able to keep me longer than included month or 15 days trial [and i tried many of them]. It was NC1 that i played a year or something like that, then NC2 that i played way shorter like 3 months and DarkFall about 1.5 year [ yes i know elves and stuff are not welcome here . To get things clear my favorite game type is team based [not 1vs1] FPS multiplayer. Back in the days [about when NC1 was released] i was playing FPS on quite high competition level [not QuakeCon level but not too far also]. Now when you know my background [that should save me from you bashing me here totally] i will state reasons why i got interest in NC1 and why i lost it [that could be called suggestion imo].
I started playing NC1 at first day of Beta 4 [Open Beta] because i got my hands on old Offline Demo and get courius.
Best things i found in NC1:
- skill based combat, aim, tactical awarness etc [ideal for FPS player]
- FFA open world PVP
- full loot [not sure about NC1 launch but atleast in Beta 4 you droped everything]
- meta game like territory control [outposts], ingame politics [clans / alliances]
- crafting system where you can craft nearly every item existing in game, there were some exceptions like COPOT Plasma, Sould Blade [not sure about name], if iremeber correctly Tanks PA [there wasnt any others PA back then] etc
- freedom of choice with your char, if you wanted you could be pistol tank or monk with rifle [not that those strange setups were good but if you wanted you could do this and i remember at least one pistol tank running around]
- quite fast skill gain, no need 1 year to be able to use best weapons, in fact later in NC2 or 2.1 with friends help it was possible to cap PE in like 48h of gameplay or even less [dunno if it was exploit but i remember hiting my friend PE with Monstriker at some GenRep for like 2h and his CON was going up insanly fast]
- good idea about how to protect and in same time punish PVE players in PVP game, that implant which gives you immunity [cant remember name atm], got a penalty so ppl with those implants needed better stats to use same weapon as ppl w/o them [it wasnt much like 10%], so for many ppl [including me] first thing to do after creating char was removing it and you got PVP even in lvl 1 sewers.
- very well designed and quite big world, unfinished in some areas but mysterious, when you get to Maze or some Outzone zones you really got felling that you discovered something, not to mention crashing or jumping out metro cab and exploring tunnels on foot or BYB
- music and ambient sounds

Things that were bad from start:
- Fatals and disconnects [but you know KK is small company i thought they will fix it so sometimes i was pissed when i crashed im middle of fight but generally i get over it]
- zone system that created so called "zone whoring" [but prolly at those times there were no hardware/software possibility to create zoneless world that big]
- no recticle for monks and their ability to hit you behind walls from 3rd person perspective w/o real LoS [line of sight]
- outpost bonuses [only one thing they were good for was macroing crafting skills or doing batches for missions later in NC2 i think]
- useless stock exchange system

Things that made me stop playing [and paying]:
- KK introduced more and more top end [rares/epics/faction] items, that were too much better than top end buildable items. Example .. top end plasma canon was TPC and rare was CS [times of tank-o-cron], if you were good in PVP with TPC and guy with CS was bad you could win, but if you were on same level there were no chance for TPC guy to win, so to get chance you needed CS. Prices on parts and weapons started to go insanly high bcuz every1 wanted to have CS. So if you need to go farm Warbots for parts or do god know how many cave runs to get your gear then you go PVP and die in 30 min. Not strange that ppl started to whine and KK instead changing rare system started do made NC more and more carebear.
- i do not remember in which order KK made those changes and when but.. safeslot, more and more safezones [for example TH wasnt safezone at begining], drop only items from quickbelt [remember ppl run with quickbelt full of cheapest drug besides safeslot ?] + 1 of 5 [or 4] most valuable items from inv, implants not droping at all only poping out, warzones [i do not mention here hackbelts bcuz that idea wasnt bad in general as it forces in some way teamplay etc]
- not to mention WoC bullshit [mindless grind]

Those things made tons of players quit [and stop paying] NC1/NC2 over years because:
- "i will not fkin farm 4h for a gun that i will lost in 30 min due to Fatal Error"
- "why even go on PVP run if you can only get stocks of drugs and some shity pants"
- etc etc

In my opinion there are many players out there who wait for good PVP game, i remember sieges [something like outpost wars] in Darkfall where there was near 1000 ppl on each side at one place.

Anyway it seems i will make suggestion from my point of view [about NC3 cuz NC2 cant be changed so much]. KK if you ever want to make NC3 a FFA open world PVP game you need:
- zoneless world, there could be zones for cities [but entire in one zone] caves, dungeons or smt like that, but of course not instanced, but open world need to be zoneless
- FFA PVP [anyone can kill anyone, there could be punishment like faction symphaty or something but if i want kill i should be able]
- full loot [if i can kill i can take, i got killed they will take]
- no grind, char should be ready to compete fast, mayby not 1 week but dunno 1 max 2 months [grind killed Darkfall]
- good content and some sort of protection for pure PVE/Crafter players as we PVPers need them to craft our guns and stuff [especially on 1 slot server]
- as few safe zones as possible [2-3 trade hubs], in some other there could be some copbots, stormbots or whatever that are rly strong and there is no skill gain on them
- farming cant be main time eater, if i can farm my gear in 1h and then go on PVP run and die in 30 min, be it, if i need 4h to farm it i will not play
- there could be of course some sort of epic items that you need to spent shitload of time to get them but they cant be more powerfull than best normal items by 5-10% margin, they should be more for show than for daily PVP [of course if i want to go on PVP run with epic i can my choice but i shouldnt be forced to have it], i can walk with it on my back in safezone and stroke my e-peen
- need to change outpost bonus system, make it resource based, lets say that best normal weapon [TPC for example] need some kind of chip, factory outpost produce those chips lets say 240 per 24h and there is some sort of cabinet where every 6 min spawns 1 chip and everyone can take it and if they are not taken they stack, that will make outpost raiding even for solo [unclanned] players worth something bcuz if that cabinet wasnt emptied 2h you can gain, they will be worth for clans not only as teleport points but as income and resource control points [of course they should be minimum 2 same type factories in the world to avoid monopoly]. I know what i wrote above about getting gear in 1h and now i write about outposts making chips needed for normal weapons, so there is need for chips to drop from mobs but on lower rate of course. That creates so many possibilities for solo players, pure PVErs and clans. As solo player i can go farm and with drop rate like 25% [dont catch me on numbers thats example] i should get one in 30 min, i can try and raid/sneak and steal from factory or try ninja them [chips not factory itself] in not primetime, or go farm other mobs and simply buy it from someone. Pure PVErs got another source of income and satisfaction. Clans can try to raid or conquer that factory or conquer other and get into barter deal. Possibilities are nearly endless, thats meta game, thats sandbox.
- one internation server or not ? here im not sure, depends on engine and hardware needed to handle many players, if engine will in some way level chances in fight for ppl with 50 ping and 200 ping [i suspect that all that recticle thing was about this but i can be completly wrong] then go for one, if engine cant level chances you need to go for regional servers [and no german or french servers nearly all ppl who got internet connection can understand at least basic english, like me ] bcuz ppl will be pissed off by losing due to ping
- server performance must be good from start and as few errors as possible [i know its not possible to nail them all before launch even with betas etc], in PVP game nothing drives ppl more crazy than losing due to technical issues
- open beta with prepurchase is a must, ppl will come to check it, some will get hyped if game is good even if they never ever heard of Neocron, plus you can estimate server load on launch, then trial also as fast as possible, even 1 month after launch, can be 7 days no matter, trial chars with some level caps or something so cant be usefull for normal players as alts
- no fkin f2p, current usuall sub price is what 15 euros ? I live in France atm and 15 euros is less than 3 pack of cigs, i know that in my country [Poland] and other eastern european countries 15 euro got more value, but if game is good ppl will pay, if its shit and f2p they mayby will play some time but will not make microtransactions anyway
- enforcing rules, cheaters, lagswitchers, plug pullers, exploiters, if something is banable and guy was reported some GM should watch him and if confirmed in less heavy causes first warning or 24h ban before perma ban but if they continue abuse they should be perma banned, noone normal like play with cheaters etc, you lose 15 euro on ban but you can lose way more if you do not ban
- communication with your player base, there always will be issues [some ppl will find broken game mechanics, exploit possibilities, whatever], its clear that not all issues can be adressed in next 2 days, that devs need some time to nail them but at least response to the community should be as fast as possible [you can ask Darkfall devs how much subs they lost bcuz of that and i can tell you it was much, mine too]


Lol i made big ass post, but i think sometimes about how i would see ideal MMO for me ... ,in fact ideal for me would be some sort of combination worlds of DeusEx [my favorite game of all times] + Neocron + Stalker

Sry for my english

[Clive tombstone]

That is not exactly a suggestion but i will write it anyway.
In all my gamming years and its many years as i started on ZX Spectrum [37 years old atm] only 2 MMO [3 if you count NC1 and NC2 as different games] were able to keep me longer than included month or 15 days trial [and i tried many of them]. It was NC1 that i played a year or something like that, then NC2 that i played way shorter like 3 months and DarkFall about 1.5 year [ yes i know elves and stuff are not welcome here . To get things clear my favorite game type is team based [not 1vs1] FPS multiplayer. Back in the days [about when NC1 was released] i was playing FPS on quite high competition level [not QuakeCon level but not too far also]. Now when you know my background [that should save me from you bashing me here totally] i will state reasons why i got interest in NC1 and why i lost it [that could be called suggestion imo].
I started playing NC1 at first day of Beta 4 [Open Beta] because i got my hands on old Offline Demo and get courius.
Best things i found in NC1:
- skill based combat, aim, tactical awarness etc [ideal for FPS player]
- FFA open world PVP
- full loot [not sure about NC1 launch but atleast in Beta 4 you droped everything]
- meta game like territory control [outposts], ingame politics [clans / alliances]
- crafting system where you can craft nearly every item existing in game, there were some exceptions like COPOT Plasma, Sould Blade [not sure about name], if iremeber correctly Tanks PA [there wasnt any others PA back then] etc
- freedom of choice with your char, if you wanted you could be pistol tank or monk with rifle [not that those strange setups were good but if you wanted you could do this and i remember at least one pistol tank running around]
- quite fast skill gain, no need 1 year to be able to use best weapons, in fact later in NC2 or 2.1 with friends help it was possible to cap PE in like 48h of gameplay or even less [dunno if it was exploit but i remember hiting my friend PE with Monstriker at some GenRep for like 2h and his CON was going up insanly fast]
- good idea about how to protect and in same time punish PVE players in PVP game, that implant which gives you immunity [cant remember name atm], got a penalty so ppl with those implants needed better stats to use same weapon as ppl w/o them [it wasnt much like 10%], so for many ppl [including me] first thing to do after creating char was removing it and you got PVP even in lvl 1 sewers.
- very well designed and quite big world, unfinished in some areas but mysterious, when you get to Maze or some Outzone zones you really got felling that you discovered something, not to mention crashing or jumping out metro cab and exploring tunnels on foot or BYB
- music and ambient sounds

Things that were bad from start:
- Fatals and disconnects [but you know KK is small company i thought they will fix it so sometimes i was pissed when i crashed im middle of fight but generally i get over it]
- zone system that created so called "zone whoring" [but prolly at those times there were no hardware/software possibility to create zoneless world that big]
- no recticle for monks and their ability to hit you behind walls from 3rd person perspective w/o real LoS [line of sight]
- outpost bonuses [only one thing they were good for was macroing crafting skills or doing batches for missions later in NC2 i think]
- useless stock exchange system

Things that made me stop playing [and paying]:
- KK introduced more and more top end [rares/epics/faction] items, that were too much better than top end buildable items. Example .. top end plasma canon was TPC and rare was CS [times of tank-o-cron], if you were good in PVP with TPC and guy with CS was bad you could win, but if you were on same level there were no chance for TPC guy to win, so to get chance you needed CS. Prices on parts and weapons started to go insanly high bcuz every1 wanted to have CS. So if you need to go farm Warbots for parts or do god know how many cave runs to get your gear then you go PVP and die in 30 min. Not strange that ppl started to whine and KK instead changing rare system started do made NC more and more carebear.
- i do not remember in which order KK made those changes and when but.. safeslot, more and more safezones [for example TH wasnt safezone at begining], drop only items from quickbelt [remember ppl run with quickbelt full of cheapest drug besides safeslot ?] + 1 of 5 [or 4] most valuable items from inv, implants not droping at all only poping out, warzones [i do not mention here hackbelts bcuz that idea wasnt bad in general as it forces in some way teamplay etc]
- not to mention WoC bullshit [mindless grind]

Those things made tons of players quit [and stop paying] NC1/NC2 over years because:
- "i will not fkin farm 4h for a gun that i will lost in 30 min due to Fatal Error"
- "why even go on PVP run if you can only get stocks of drugs and some shity pants"
- etc etc

In my opinion there are many players out there who wait for good PVP game, i remember sieges [something like outpost wars] in Darkfall where there was near 1000 ppl on each side at one place.

Anyway it seems i will make suggestion from my point of view [about NC3 cuz NC2 cant be changed so much]. KK if you ever want to make NC3 a FFA open world PVP game you need:
- zoneless world, there could be zones for cities [but entire in one zone] caves, dungeons or smt like that, but of course not instanced, but open world need to be zoneless
- FFA PVP [anyone can kill anyone, there could be punishment like faction symphaty or something but if i want kill i should be able]
- full loot [if i can kill i can take, i got killed they will take]
- no grind, char should be ready to compete fast, mayby not 1 week but dunno 1 max 2 months [grind killed Darkfall]
- good content and some sort of protection for pure PVE/Crafter players as we PVPers need them to craft our guns and stuff [especially on 1 slot server]
- as few safe zones as possible [2-3 trade hubs], in some other there could be some copbots, stormbots or whatever that are rly strong and there is no skill gain on them
- farming cant be main time eater, if i can farm my gear in 1h and then go on PVP run and die in 30 min, be it, if i need 4h to farm it i will not play
- there could be of course some sort of epic items that you need to spent shitload of time to get them but they cant be more powerfull than best normal items by 5-10% margin, they should be more for show than for daily PVP [of course if i want to go on PVP run with epic i can my choice but i shouldnt be forced to have it], i can walk with it on my back in safezone and stroke my e-peen
- need to change outpost bonus system, make it resource based, lets say that best normal weapon [TPC for example] need some kind of chip, factory outpost produce those chips lets say 240 per 24h and there is some sort of cabinet where every 6 min spawns 1 chip and everyone can take it and if they are not taken they stack, that will make outpost raiding even for solo [unclanned] players worth something bcuz if that cabinet wasnt emptied 2h you can gain, they will be worth for clans not only as teleport points but as income and resource control points [of course they should be minimum 2 same type factories in the world to avoid monopoly]. I know what i wrote above about getting gear in 1h and now i write about outposts making chips needed for normal weapons, so there is need for chips to drop from mobs but on lower rate of course. That creates so many possibilities for solo players, pure PVErs and clans. As solo player i can go farm and with drop rate like 25% [dont catch me on numbers thats example] i should get one in 30 min, i can try and raid/sneak and steal from factory or try ninja them [chips not factory itself] in not primetime, or go farm other mobs and simply buy it from someone. Pure PVErs got another source of income and satisfaction. Clans can try to raid or conquer that factory or conquer other and get into barter deal. Possibilities are nearly endless, thats meta game, thats sandbox.
- one internation server or not ? here im not sure, depends on engine and hardware needed to handle many players, if engine will in some way level chances in fight for ppl with 50 ping and 200 ping [i suspect that all that recticle thing was about this but i can be completly wrong] then go for one, if engine cant level chances you need to go for regional servers [and no german or french servers nearly all ppl who got internet connection can understand at least basic english, like me ] bcuz ppl will be pissed off by losing due to ping
- server performance must be good from start and as few errors as possible [i know its not possible to nail them all before launch even with betas etc], in PVP game nothing drives ppl more crazy than losing due to technical issues
- open beta with prepurchase is a must, ppl will come to check it, some will get hyped if game is good even if they never ever heard of Neocron, plus you can estimate server load on launch, then trial also as fast as possible, even 1 month after launch, can be 7 days no matter, trial chars with some level caps or something so cant be usefull for normal players as alts
- no fkin f2p, current usuall sub price is what 15 euros ? I live in France atm and 15 euros is less than 3 pack of cigs, i know that in my country [Poland] and other eastern european countries 15 euro got more value, but if game is good ppl will pay, if its shit and f2p they mayby will play some time but will not make microtransactions anyway
- enforcing rules, cheaters, lagswitchers, plug pullers, exploiters, if something is banable and guy was reported some GM should watch him and if confirmed in less heavy causes first warning or 24h ban before perma ban but if they continue abuse they should be perma banned, noone normal like play with cheaters etc, you lose 15 euro on ban but you can lose way more if you do not ban
- communication with your player base, there always will be issues [some ppl will find broken game mechanics, exploit possibilities, whatever], its clear that not all issues can be adressed in next 2 days, that devs need some time to nail them but at least response to the community should be as fast as possible [you can ask Darkfall devs how much subs they lost bcuz of that and i can tell you it was much, mine too]


Lol i made big ass post, but i think sometimes about how i would see ideal MMO for me ... ,in fact ideal for me would be some sort of combination worlds of DeusEx [my favorite game of all times] + Neocron + Stalker

Sry for my english

I generally agree with everything here. It all looks like some good compramises for the system to potentially be.

As an artist looking for a project to do, I'd actually be intrigued on trying to make a HUD layout for the game (or at least concepts for it).

DeusEX+ Neocron+ Stalker... hmm, Ill take at the huds and try whipping something up.

Personally, as usual, I'd like to see more vehicles and a better implementation of them... Hell why not insurance policies for vehicles as well :P (hey, EVE had the right idea methinks).

[Dribble Joy]

I'm sure I've said something similar before (possibly even in this thread at some point) but NC is an MMORPG, not a CS server.

Yes, PvP is an integral part of the game and I love it, but it's not everything. Plus, part of the intensity of NC is protecting you have built up and put effort into. If things become 'throw-away' then they become quite boring and without meaning.

A ranking system and/or greater xp for PvP would be good, but it would be hopelessly open to abuse.

I do think that the belts at current should have similar looting rights as mobs. Only the killer would be able to access it without hacking.

And now for something completely different:

Inter-class balance.

One big issue is the overall strengths of the classes following their relative offence/defence power.

Tanks have the highest armour, the highest resists, the highest hp and at least the equal highest damage output.
Even with their psi, PEs can't even reach the same defence level, and their offensive power is considerably lower.

The next big issue (and something that I have been banging on about for years) is that the classes don't gain equal benefits from PPU assistance. Even if the classes are solo-balanced, PEs and Spies effectively loose their self-cast abilities in the team arena, making them inherently weaker than monks and tanks.

There's a number if ways to resolve this.

Let self and foreign casts stack. Simple, but could get confusing.
'Remove' self casts and give PEs and Spies something else, such as a powerful resist buff, self cast dmg boost, or allow nanites to stack with psi and reorganise them such that they become the new self casts for those classes (like removing the IMP reqs. and lowering the INT reqs.).

There's also something that I have been mulling over recently, that could help with both of the problems above: Resist Psi.

How about Resist Psi affecting all dmg, rather than just psi?
This would give Spies and PEs the option of speccing for spells, or flat defence (or a bit of both). Given you need to buy and cast them, self shields would be more powerful that what you could naturally get from Resist Psi which is always 'on'. It would also give a reason to use the psi resistor chips as another line of defence implants.
Rather than stacking with nanites you would perhaps get the highest of the two. If 15% from Resist Psi and 10% from nanites, then you would only get 15%.

[Biglines]

How about Resist Psi affecting all dmg, rather than just psi?
This would give Spies and PEs the option of speccing for spells, or flat defence (or a bit of both). Given you need to buy and cast them, self shields would be more powerful that what you could naturally get from Resist Psi which is always 'on'. It would also give a reason to use the psi resistor chips as another line of defence implants.
Rather than stacking with nanites you would perhaps get the highest of the two. If 15% from Resist Psi and 10% from nanites, then you would only get 15%.

that I like (not that i dont like the rest, but this in particular :P)

[FarSight]

I'm sure I've said something similar before (possibly even in this thread at some point) but NC is an MMORPG, not a CS server.

Yes i remember that sentence by you. Last [and first in fact] real MMORPG was Ultima Online, becasue ppl were trying to RP there as most of them were veterans of pen&paper RPGs. I played some UO, not too much as it wasnt FP perspective but i remember shit tone of ppl trying to RP. How many ppl that actually tried to RP in NC you remember, 5-10 maybe? In my opinion [everyone can have his own] NC is way closer to CS than to UO. NC is like Planetside but better and with more depth.

Yes, PvP is an integral part of the game and I love it, but it's not everything. Plus, part of the intensity of NC is protecting you have built up and put effort into. If things become 'throw-away' then they become quite boring and without meaning.

You dont want to protect your stuff and things you have build, you want SYSTEM that will protect it for you [like safeslots or whatever] so wheres an effort in this ?

Like i said, everyone got his own opinions, expectaction, playing styles, different things makes us happy. I stated in last post what i would expect from NC3, you got different expectations. How will NC3 look we will see [if we will see it ever], maybe i will be happy, maybe you, maybe we will be both disapointed.

[Biglines]

just because people aren't roleplaying now, doesn't mean they didn't in the past...

and neocron never called itself mmorpg, but mmofps afaik?

[Kamuix99]

Just on the upcoming FFA-PVP discussion.

As far as I remember, Neocron has all mechanics that people wish for. There was an FFA-PVP server before and when people take out their LE they have FFA-PVP in every zone that allows it. Due to that, any further demands IMHO are unneeded and senseless. If people want an more effort vs reward approach, they are free to play EVE Online where things end up in gate-gang-bang. Though there you don't have an effort of aiming and positioning yourself as in an FPS.

[FarSight]

Just on the upcoming FFA-PVP discussion.

As far as I remember, Neocron has all mechanics that people wish for. There was an FFA-PVP server before and when people take out their LE they have FFA-PVP in every zone that allows it. Due to that, any further demands IMHO are unneeded and senseless. If people want an more effort vs reward approach, they are free to play EVE Online where things end up in gate-gang-bang. Though there you don't have an effort of aiming and positioning yourself as in an FPS.

To get things clear. FFA [Free For All] term was created with Doom2 or Quake1, it got 2 meanings:
-multiplayer gamemode when every1 try to kill every1 and person with most frags at end of round time wins [term FFA orginally was equal to DeathMatch DM].
-server that is not password protected and every1 can join

As far as i remember all Neocron servers could be called FFA [in the first meaning, not in true form as you were not suposed and you were punished for killing your faction members and allied faction members but you were able to do it if you wished] and PVP [on all servers afaik if you poped out LE you were subject to PVP].

I will not get in any discussion about whats better and whats not [in terms of "FFA" PVP, full loot, pixel whores etc]. In first post on this page i stated my wishes and expectations about my personal perfect MMO [will not add RPG or FPS lets leave it as MMO]. Every1 can have their own wishes and expectations and its normal. We will se [if ever] what KK will deliver with NC3, some of us will be happy, some of us disapointed, shit happens.

Regards

[Ivan Eres]

make it possible to put the le back in.

prevent abuse by setting the time for this procedure to a few hours or so.

this way you could play with le chars again whenever you want, and take a break from pvp.

[daughterolilith]

make it possible to put the le back in.

prevent abuse by setting the time for this procedure to a few hours or so.

this way you could play with le chars again whenever you want, and take a break from pvp.

yes!

They are working on Neocron 3 as soon as they can, they just need money and more people power!
http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=144921

Talk to friendly venture capitalists, invade the financial forums, occupy london City and wall street lol!