1. #1

    Default Construction - Needing stupid amounts of CST to cap store brought

    Thought i'd make my PE a nice shiny Blacksun TL 86.

    With 265 cst i get 90%
    With 273 cst i get 91%
    With 283 cst i get 93%

    And finally capped it at 94% with 298 CST ( though i was probably over it now )

    Thats insane, needing more than 3 times the CST just to cap store brought weapons is stupid, i only managed to finally with op, blue fairy, cst chips 3 and 2 and a cst 3 buff.

    Please please please fix whatever you did to construction, yes i know about rares building to all arti and how that was bad but its even worse now, i'd rather peeps running around with all arti rares than all store brought items being totally worthless which is what we are gonna get now.

  2. #2
    I stay in the canyons
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    Default

    Remove The Rare To Non-rare Gap KK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Let hc PE's gun all 4x4 vechicle guns without drugs (make HC/melee PE's viable).
    Fix some chips (e.g moveon and marine).
    Put the noob stealth back to 10 sec (or give pe's another 10 sec stealth).
    Make more sense into the negatives on chips (they mostly don't make sense).
    Give PE's a better heal (e.g tl30ish)

  3. #3
    Home again Gulinborsti's Avatar
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    Default Non-rare item construction

    OK, I will try to calculate the possible maximum CST skill first:

    Base Skill : 175 (all points in CST)

    Implants (Brain):
    CST2: 14,98
    CST3: 22,14
    TH CPU: 9,91
    Hawkins: 10,46

    Implants (Backbone):
    Adv.Nerves 3: 5,92

    Implants (Glove):
    CST Glove: 13,92

    TOTAL: 252 (without Drugs, Buffs and Factory)

    Drugs:
    Blue Fairy: 9,06

    Factory:
    OP (not Clan owned) : 22
    OP (Clan owned): 44 (?? dont have one to check ??)

    Buffs:
    CST Buff 3: 17,16

    Maximum CST: 322 (with Drugs, Buff and Clan Factory)

    Assumption:
    Now with a quality cap at 94% for non-rare items it should be possible for a capped constructor spy (INT:100, DEX:100 base + main skill boni on those skills from implants) with drugs, CST Buff 3 and clan owned factory to build the highest available non-rare item with quality 94%.

    Conclusion:
    If this is not possible KK needs to fix the construction calculation for quality of non-rare items. Because if a player specialises on construction only I don't see the point in not being able to reach the construction cap on every item available.

    So all KK needs to do is change their CST quality calculation in a way, that maximum possible skill and maximum non-rare available TL item result in quality capped player built items.

    qed


  4. #4
    *BURNER
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    Default added a question...

    w00t, i'll lom my overcapped spy!

    edit: is it now possible to cst a TL90 item over the qual-capp (94%) ?
    i miss ya, pheebz

  5. #5
    Home again Gulinborsti's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by netster
    w00t, i'll lom my overcapped spy!

    edit: is it now possible to cst a TL90 item over the qual-capp (94%) ?
    I don't know since I don't know what the non-rare item with the highest TL is atm. I just tried to point out how it should work in my opinion, or how I would create a formula for construction.

    If it doesn't work this way, either :

    1) my assumption of a capped and fully specialised constructor being able to build EVERY non-rare item at quality cap is wrong because KK simply don't want us to quality cap top TL non-rares.

    2) KK messed up the maths on this topic


  6. #6

    Default

    Its not possible anymore :

    Last night we built holy res TL 105 with capped cster in TH... pre-patch was 94%.....after patch was 81%


    Then using a factory all imps buffs and a blue-fairy, at 330ish skill , it built to only 89%

    By comparison , we also built a rare to 116/120/120/118 with 4 slots.....

  7. #7

    Default

    Didn't holy res build to like 81% or so in 2.1? I realise the idea of not reaching 94% with a capped cster is pretty annoying (especially since you got used to it for a couple of weeks before kk tweaked things), but a 5 slotter with 89% base stats should still be just fine with the right mods.
    Nullvoid // The Provider

  8. #8
    Registered User Zheo's Avatar
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    Default

    Non rare items should be like rare items.

    CST skill = to item tl should give: 10-20
    Cst skill +20% item tl should give: 20-30
    Cst skill +30% item tl should give: 30-40
    Cst skill +40% item tl should give: 40-50
    Cst skill +50% item tl should give: 50-60
    Cst skill +65% item tl should give: 60-70
    Cst skill +75% item tl should give: 70-80
    Cst skill +90% item tl should give: 80-90
    Cst skill +110% item tl should give: 90-100
    Cst skill +130% item tl should give: 100-110
    Cst skill +150% item tl should give: 110-120

    This would mean if you had 288 cst you could build TL 115 items to 110-120 before modding. This is means that if you spec all out cst, you get really rewarded by it. It also means you could spec say 230 cst and build items at around 95-105 stats. So if you wanted to duel trade for example, cst and implant, you could, ok it wouldn't be great but with possible 105 stats, thats alot better than say the 87 you'd get now.

  9. #9
    Tech Haven Network Brammers's Avatar
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    Default

    Below is an old table I got from somewhere of the old NC1 to NC2.1 construction caps.

    A couple of nights ago (Patch 161), myself and Tubby tried building Holy Rezzs. Tubby had a very high construct skill, but he wasn't capped in INT (I think, hit me Tubby if I'm wrong!)

    First few runs in a factory Tubby got 81% on the Holy Rezz. I tried one and the first one came out at about 84% - with about 273CST skill. After tweaking the implants, finding some drugs and buffs, the highest I got on a Holy Rezz was 89% at about 315+ (It may had been 322)

    No conclusion from me yet on this one.

    Code:
    TL	Maximum Lube/Construction Grease Used
    1	94	0
    2	94	0
    3	94	0
    4	94	0
    5	94	0
    6	94	0
    7	94	0
    8	94	0
    9	94	0
    10	94	0
    11	94	0
    12	94	0
    13	94	0
    14	94	0
    15	94	0
    16	94	0
    17	94	0
    18	94	0
    19	94	0
    20	94	0
    21	94	0
    22	94	0
    23	94	0
    24	94	0
    25	94	1
    26	94	1
    27	94	1
    28	94	1
    29	94	1
    30	94	1
    31	94	1
    32	94	1
    33	94	
    34	94	
    35	94	3
    36	94	3
    37	94	3
    38	94	3
    39	94	3
    40	94	3
    41	94	
    42	94	
    43	94	
    44	94	
    45	94	
    46	94	5
    47	94	5
    48		5
    49		5
    50	93	5
    51	93	5
    52	93	5
    53	92	5
    54	92	
    55	92	9
    56	92	9
    57	92	9
    58	92	9
    59		9
    60		9
    61		9
    62	91	9
    63		9
    64	90	9
    65		
    66		
    67		
    68		
    69		
    70		
    71		
    72	88	13
    73	88	
    74	88	
    75	88	19
    76	88	19
    77	88	19
    78	88	19
    79	88	19
    80		19
    81	87	19
    82	87	19
    83	87	
    84	87	
    85	87	25
    86		25
    87	86	25
    88		25
    89		25
    90	85	25
    91		
    92		
    93	84	33
    94	84	33
    95	84	33
    96		33
    97		33
    98		33
    99		33
    100		33
    101	83	33
    102	83	33
    103		33
    104	82	33
    105	82	41
    106		
    107		
    108		
    109		
    100		
    101		
    102		
    103		
    104		
    105		
    106		
    107		
    108		
    109		
    110		
    111		
    112		
    113		
    114		
    115		
    116	80	51
    117		
    118		
    119		
    120		
    121		
    122

  10. #10
    Home again Gulinborsti's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zheo
    Non rare items should be like rare items.

    CST skill = to item tl should give: 10-20
    Cst skill +20% item tl should give: 20-30
    Cst skill +30% item tl should give: 30-40
    Cst skill +40% item tl should give: 40-50
    Cst skill +50% item tl should give: 50-60
    Cst skill +65% item tl should give: 60-70
    Cst skill +75% item tl should give: 70-80
    Cst skill +90% item tl should give: 80-90
    Cst skill +110% item tl should give: 90-100
    Cst skill +130% item tl should give: 100-110
    Cst skill +150% item tl should give: 110-120

    This would mean if you had 288 cst you could build TL 115 items to 110-120 before modding. This is means that if you spec all out cst, you get really rewarded by it. It also means you could spec say 230 cst and build items at around 95-105 stats. So if you wanted to duel trade for example, cst and implant, you could, ok it wouldn't be great but with possible 105 stats, thats alot better than say the 87 you'd get now.
    The problem with your wishes is, that KK wants you to be 100% specialised OR choose to build up 2 or 3 skills at the cost of expertship.
    I hated Neocron for forcing my chars into more and more specialisation, but I think we have to accept it. It's KKs baby, they decide.

    Although every single skill in this game caps somewhere, there's a "natural" ceiling for almost everything.

    For example:
    KK replaced hard caps on weapon damage with a soft cap; that means that you can decide how many skillpoints you assign to the skills you need to use a weapon. The higher you go, the more damage you do (even if the benefits get less when you are reaching very high values). There is still a cap because there is always only a finite number of skillpoints you can assign and you can get from imps, buffs etc.
    So you can put all DEX skillpoints in P-C, all INT skillpoints in WPL and use all implants that add most to those subskills. Then you will finally reach the hard end of the softcap for lowtech pistols with this setup and a const capped weapon with all quality at 94%.

    The 94% might be in place to keep a gap between rares and non-rares, the way it should be. I dont care about this number as long as the DOT it deals can be directly compared to weapons of lower or higher or equal TL.

    BUT:
    If I take the hard way of sacrifing ALL INT skillpoints in CST I definitly want to build every buildable item in the game in the best quality.

    I want to build every non-rare at the build cap chosen by KK.
    I want to build every rare weapon with max. slot chance and with chance for best quality available for rares.


    Nothing more, nothing less.

    I see no problem in slightly penalizing the un clanned occasional player because he will not have the chance to build everything at cap qualty because he misses the clan factory bonus. I am sure the occasional player will be satisfied with weapons of 2-3% lower quality ;-).


  11. #11
    I'm alergic to Stupid....
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    Default

    The real pisser about the new CST computation is that it takes away one of the funnest aspects of starting a new Spy.

    Making your own weapons as you level.

    Can't do that anymore and it sucks. Newbies can no longer Res\Repair\CST their own equiptment. It has narrowed the game experience considerably for teh newb.

    Sure there came a point where you had to turn to the Professional Tradeskiller, about level 45-50. But up untill then you could be pretty self sufficient and learn how things work.

    Now all you can do is missions or straight hunting.

    Yea yea, it's a social game.

    But remember when you'd need a new weapon every night?

    It can really be a pain in the ass to spend an hour or more hunting down a set of tradeskillers everynight for 3 weeks....

  12. #12
    Roger Ramjet's Food Fan
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    Default ...please

    Stop change everything.... who said the old construction system was bad?? Nobody. So please dont change everything only for the fun to change this game... it was really bad and somebody is ruining one thing for time...

    My spy could easily ress and conster items untill a certain TL ...for higher ones it needed a specialized cst/ress ... what was bad with it?
    [Voldemort - Blue Angel - Invisible - Marya]

    Leader of WarLord Crew on Terra
    Member of TT Clan -= The One =- on Uranus.

    Old Neocron Player...The BEST mmorpg. Not Anymore.

  13. #13
    I'm alergic to Stupid....
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    Default

    Exactly....

    Not to mention the fact that if a newb didn't CST or RES there were a LOT more people who could help them out!

    Just about anyone with 100 CST could cap a TL 20-30 weapon. 140CST and you could cap TL50ish.

    Now it takes 150 CST to cap TL9?????

    Rediculous.

    And much harder on the new players.

  14. #14

    Default

    this also means out of business for not capped consters, as every leveling person now requires a rocket scientist for making him a junkknife

  15. #15
    [Ex. KK] Quality Assurance Manager Carnage's Avatar
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    Default

    Thank you for your detailed reports.
    We will take a look into that issue.

    ~close~

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