1. #61
    Bitter Old Fart Dribble Joy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lupus
    A Judge using PE was the basis point for reworking the Pistol skills. In fact I used the info I was given in the thread where I requested player setups for most of the reworks.

    With that said I took a PE that was had a setup that leaned towards as much pistol boosting implants as they could get, not including Pistol Combat booster 3, nor any drugs. Then with the exception of DEX since that has to be a minimum of 100, I took 90% of what I got PC & WEP wise and adjusted the skills so that it would be enough to cap the Judge.
    The problem is that the majority of Judge users do NOT use full DEX/PC boosting implants.
    A judge may be 20 tls above a PE's base dex cap, but this does not mean it is a high dex weapon, even for a PE. I for example (even without drugs) only need 3 dex imps and my PA to reach dex 100.
    Balancing something on the basis that is something else is (imo) the wrong thing to do.

    Regarding the rest of the changes:
    My impression was that though the rifle changes were going in, the actual effects in the end were minimal, the freq calaulation for example was not going to change.
    I also was under the impression that the affect of WEP on pistol aim was (although slightly adjusted) was not going to have a large impact on capping aiming.
    As a result pistol users would be able to continue as they are, but had the option of gaining higher RoF at the cost of thier other INT speccings.
    This meant that given full INT specialisation into WEP for both pistol users and rifle users would mean that pistols were more powerful, but rilfes had the advantage of range. This 'balance' I did not agree with, but a kind of balance anyway.

    What actually happened is that now, riflers can fully cap aiming, damage and freq with much less speccing than before. A PE now caps freq at 170 RC.
    Where as pistols users will be able to cap rof with as much speccing as a rifle user, maybe need even more.
    A pistol user also cannot continue to have as much WEP as before, as aiming has been changed, he HAS to fully spec his INT into WEP, in order to cap aiming.
    So where is any sense of balance now? Pistols don't have any advantage over rifles at all anymore.
    Both cap freq, both cap aiming, both cap damage, but rifles still have the advantage of range.

  2. #62
    Registered User jernau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dribble Joy
    Pistols don't have any advantage over rifles at all anymore.
    Both cap freq, both cap aiming, both cap damage
    You could put it the other way round and say "Rifles don't have any advantage over pistols" because range is irrelevant in this game as long as the clipping plane and scopes work as they do currently.

  3. #63
    Bitter Old Fart Dribble Joy's Avatar
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    Seperate issue.
    Pistol range is borked for a start, you can't nerf overall range without nerfing recticle speed (remember the wyatt pre boost), the two are linked and untill they change the code/let lupus have access to more of the game mechanics, it won't be coming down.
    And I do want pistol range 'nerfed'.


    edit/
    Just seen this. There is hope yet.
    Though a RoG capping freq at 170 RC is just barmy.
    Last edited by Dribble Joy; 15-11-04 at 16:20.

  4. #64
    Drinking Tea for England! Siygess's Avatar
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    Indeed. Pistols also have double the clip size of the rifles (something that never really made any sense, but feh, this game isn't meant to be realistic is it ). I never use my pistol except for when I'm messing around, so I can't say for sure how much of a difference it makes..

    But I'm assuming that, in a situation where a runner with a pistol and a runner with a rifle are in range of each other, the runner with the pistol has the advantage as long as he's specced pretty much all his available INT points into WEP?

    Hmmm.

  5. #65
    Bitter Old Fart Dribble Joy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siygess
    But I'm assuming that, in a situation where a runner with a pistol and a runner with a rifle are in range of each other, the runner with the pistol has the advantage as long as he's specced pretty much all his available INT points into WEP?

    Hmmm.
    No, because rifles have had thier freq capping requirments dropped massively, as a result, both the rifle and the pistol have capped freq.
    Rifles still maintain the advantage of range.

  6. #66
    Registered User jernau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dribble Joy
    No, because rifles have had thier freq capping requirments dropped massively, as a result, both the rifle and the pistol have capped freq.
    Rifles still maintain the advantage of range.
    You really need to seperate theory and practice there. I know the reasons and theories as to why it works as it does now but that doesn't change the end result.

    Range means jack. Pistols get faster reticle which matters a lot more.

  7. #67
    Bitter Old Fart Dribble Joy's Avatar
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    I'm still recovering from a training weekend and I'm a little fuzzy in the brain area. Explain the first paragraph again?

    I would say that rectilce speed also means jack, from my experience it's just as fast on rifles as it is on pistols. Full lock isn't needed as many weapons are beam/laser based. Look at the RoG and RoLH.

    edit/
    Remember that pistol recticle speed is as fast as it is atm because of the range boost pistols got a while ago by accident, my judge went from 83m to 130m.
    Last edited by Dribble Joy; 15-11-04 at 17:05.

  8. #68
    Registered User jernau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dribble Joy
    I'm still recovering from a training weekend and I'm a little fuzzy in the brain area. Explain the first paragraph again?
    I mean that range is absolutely irrelevant in NC, where >90% of combat is done point-blank, so you can't list it as an advantage. Especially not against tangible benefits like reticle speed and clip size.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dribble Joy
    I would say that rectilce speed also means jack, from my experience it's just as fast on rifles as it is on pistols. Full lock isn't needed as many weapons are beam/laser based. Look at the RoG and RoLH.
    Reticle definitely does have an effect although less so on Rayguns I admit.


    IMO until the clipping issues are resolved pistol/rifle balancing is pointless as they are both doing the same task but neither is doing what it should.

  9. #69
    Bitter Old Fart Dribble Joy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jernau
    IMO until the clipping issues are resolved pistol/rifle balancing is pointless as they are both doing the same task but neither is doing what it should.
    I agree, but I am mainly talking about theory of balance, the practice shouldn't (imo) affect that, as practice should be altered to fit with it (if possible).

    I need to go buy tickets for wednesday's cheese night at the uni club, the shoebox dive that it is, back later.

  10. #70
    Drohnenturnier-Veranstalter Momo Katzius's Avatar
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    How are vehicle weapons influenced by skills?

  11. #71

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    *gently prods Lupus*

    It's been nearly a fortnight since the skill changes were announced now - any information on how you think things need to be further tweaked now that the results have been extensively observed in gameplay situations ?

  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lupus
    As for the Drone stuff, I'll make all that a little clearer later on, possibly today tho I can't promise anything since I have to do some digging for that info.
    Any news please ?

  13. #73
    NC2 were u fight bugs from NC1
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    I do think that for pistol's they should decrease the weapon lore's influence just abit and increase pistol combat's importance.

    Only slightly though. And this is mainly to help spies with trade skills use pistols. Atm it requires stupid amounts of p-c with low wep lore to cap a pistol.

    How many trade skillers you know can afford to use combat imps to get 130+ wep lore?

    This is what i mean.
    Using a RoLH example used has 116% damage, 114% freq)
    180 p-c and 130 wep lore doesn't cap a RoLH
    only gets: 172% damage and 167/min freq
    TERRA:
    Master Netphreak : Rifle PE 70/65** | Netphreak : Rifle Spy 79/65**
    Jedi Master Net : Gimped Blessed Hybird Monk 62/55**
    Kid Net : Pistol PE 63/65** | Chuck Rock : 56/58* H-C tank
    Dark Eagle : 73/56** CST Pistol Spy

  14. #74
    En attente de qualification Jorille's Avatar
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    Question Juste a little question

    We are in the Hacknet theme week so I'd like to ask something

    You said

    Stamina:
    Skill Factors involved: 0.6(60%) END + 0.1(10%) CON
    Movement Speed:
    Skill Factors involved: 0.26(26%) ATH + 0.26(26%) AGL

    And after
    Hacknet Stamina:
    Skill Factors involved: 0.1(10%) INT + 0.3(30%) HCK + 0.6(60%) END

    But why not a hacknet Movement Speed ?
    It's always puzzle me why a PE with 100 ATH&AGL and 0 HCK, 0 TC (using implants to hack in hacknet) move so much faster than my completly dedict hacknet caractere.

    Thanks for your answerd

    Kiss (tm)

    Nouveau joueur et potentiel nouveau joueur lisez ceci : http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=118946

  15. #75
    Six feet under! w!zZLa's Avatar
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    Question Question!

    What is the secret on Constructing?
    With a Skill of 140+ Construction and 100+ INT & DEX are all weapons at the maximum in the quality. Where is the maximum with rare weapons? And how are Slots affected? And why is it easier to get slots in a low TL Weapon with fewer Skill than with a high skilled char? Aren't Slots random?
    For teh mOeh!

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