Neocron 2 Skills Guide [English & French]

[Dribble Joy]

one question. hitech combat works the same as mst yes? simply a req and not actually worth a hoot

Read the skill guide again .

[StealthyAssassi]

He isn't saying that its just a requirement because it matters for Hacknet.

[kurai]

Interesting ...

Pistolers & Heavies would now seem to have more of a use for WEP, decreasing the load on DEX & STR respectively.

For riflers the differences are negligble since we spec almost equal amounts of WEP & RC anyway, both well above the base 100 point level.

Body Health is another interesting one. Looks like some tanks (and PEs to some extent) are going to need to sacrifice some resists/ATL to HLT points to compensate.

I won't comment on droners since I havent really been reading the Theme Week stuff, so have no idea what sort of state they are in now

[da_zero0]

Pistol Weapon Frequency:

Skill Factors involved: 0.5(50%) PC + 0.3(30%) DEX + 0.2(20%) WEP

this formula seems to be wrong to me.

i was in neofrag right now and raised my wep from 101 to 143 both dmg and range gone up but freq didnt move not on slasher not on beam of hell.

only when i buffed myself with pistolbuff 1 > more pc the freq gone up

[Dirus]

Body Health is another interesting one. Looks like some tanks (and PEs to some extent) are going to need to sacrifice some resists/ATL to HLT points to compensate.

The changes to body health have actually been ingame since about 1 month or so after the original guide was posted.

this formula seems to be wrong to me.

i was in neofrag right now and raised my wep from 101 to 143 both dmg and range gone up but freq didnt move not on slasher not on beam of hell.

only when i buffed myself with pistolbuff 1 > more pc the freq gone up

The RC, PC, HC, & RCL factors listed are the new ones that arrive with patch 120.

[Momo Katzius]

Neocron 2 Skills Guide


Remote Control:

Skill Factors involved: 0.6(60%) RCL + 0.3(30%) WPW

Remote Weapon Damage:

Skill Factors involved: 0.65(65%) RCL + 0.6(60%) WPW

Remote Weapon Handling:

Skill Factors involved: 0.6(60%) RCL + 0.65(65%) WPW

Remote Weapon Range:

Skill Factors involved: 0.6(60%) RCL + 0.65(65%) WPW

Okay: Damage is clear. Does handling influence the frequency? I suppose, that range means the flying range of the drones. For what we need "Remote Control"? "Remote Control" is not RCL, at least i understand that from reading. Sorry, but I'm a little bit confused.

[Siygess]

I could be waaaaaay off here, but for PC and RC, does that information add up to:

Pistol Users:

Damage: PC is now 15% less effective, WPL is now 100% more effective, but together constitute 100% of the skill required rather than 90% (Pistols can cap damage easier?)
Aiming: PC is now 50% less effective, WPL is now 62% less effective, but together constitute 55% of the skill required rather than 100% (Pistols are now much harder to cap aim?)
Frequency: PC remains the same, DEX remains the same, WPL is now 20% effective, but together constitue 100% of the skill required rather than 80% (Pistol can cap ROF easier?)
Handling: No change
Range: PC is now 40% more effective, WPL is now 100% more effective, but together constitute 85% of the skill required rather than 50% (Pistols can cap range easier?)

Rifle Users:

Damage: RC remains the same, WPL is now 25% more effective, but together constitute 95% of the skill required rather than 90% (Rifles can cap damage easier?)
Aiming: No change
Frequency: No change
Handling: RC remains the same, DEX is now 25% more effective, STR remains the same, but together constiture 100% of the skill required rather than 90% (Rifles can cap handling easier?)
Range: No change.

Is that right?

[AlphaGremlin]

Okay: Damage is clear. Does handling influence the frequency? I suppose, that range means the flying range of the drones. For what we need "Remote Control"? "Remote Control" is not RCL, at least i understand that from reading. Sorry, but I'm a little bit confused.

I second this... what do these statistics actually do to influence Drones? (Kinda curious, to get things accurate in NeoSkiller)
AlphaGremlin

[Dribble Joy]

Like I said a while ago, I still don't think that including WEP in the equation for pistol freq is a good idea.

I was then and still am, under the idea that skill requisition should be dependant on the weapon's 'arena' of influence (range) but equal in over all power.

Melee has almost no range, so only the main subskill (MC) is required.
Pistols have a short range (in theory, it's borked atm) and so require a small amount of speccing of WEP.
Heavy has a higher range and needs a bit more WEP specced than pistols.
Rifles have a huge and almost unlimited range (again in theory) and therefore require significant speccing of WEP.

In the close combat situation they are equal, but in order to be effective outside of that they need to make a sacrifice.

Placing WEP into the pistol freq equation means that pistolers will (and they will, given the chance) have to spec most if not all thier INT in WEP.
This means that they will not conform to the above arena of influence, they will be specing all thier INT but not getting any more range.
Yes they will be able to gain higher freq, which then means they are more powerful in basic (close) combat.
That may seem as 'balanced', but I generally see it as a bit of a... mess.

[Siygess]

I see what you're saying DJ, but while the idea is good in theory, the requirement for weaponlore alone does not appear to be the sole balancing factor for ranged weapons. Take comments from KK along the lines of "Rifles won't get AoE, they need some drawbacks" or words to that effect.. it implies that all rifles are very good, and that the high WPL requirements aren't enough to justify their range advantage? Yet clearly, the Pistol is more suited to PvP combat thanks in part to the more sensible line-up of weapon / damage types by TL.. so I can only assume that the increased significance of WPL for Pistol use is supposed to balance this out a bit more.

If nothing else, it's going to push a lot of Pistol PE's down a more specialised path, don't you think?

[Dirus]

TC is still just a Requirement on RC, HC, MC, PC. Adding more then whats required when using those weapons will not provide any benefit.

Yes the effect of WEP has been made a liltle more noticeable and when it comes to pistols the only Stat besides AIM that has PC's effect lowered as a result is DMG. When it comes to aim, it only takes around half the skill to cap if compared to the other stats on the weapon.

WEP is not the main subskill needed for the weapons, nor is it a subskill in the player's primary group. Ie. Less points needed to be shared with TC, AGL, REC, VHC.

With the changes a Judge can be completely capped with around DEX100 PC175 & WEP 150.

[BradSTL]

I assume that it still takes a Skill Factor equal to twice the TL of the item to cap quality on CST or guarantee RES? The items in the game that have a TL > 100 tend to have quality caps, so effectively the max TL for these purposes may be 100, or maybe 110. Let's use 110. That means that to guarantee success on a CST or RES roll, you need a combined Skill Factor of 220.

CST: The formula counts 10% of your INT and 20% of your DEX so 30 of that 220 is covered, but only if you're a capped spy. Assume CST chips 1, 2, and 3, plus one rare +10 chip, +5 for self-buff, +15 if you can get the faction database item the Constructor Machina Glove. That's a lot off pluses, a total of +60, not even counting any factory outpost bonuses. So you're on your own to cover the remaining 130, or 145 if you can't get the CST glove. Knock 5 off of that if you can get two of the rare CST chips. Result is 5 to 10 points lower than the last estimate of capped skill for an Engineer. Granted, that's 25 to 50 free skill points, but my enthusiasm is muted.

RES: E-parts are 115, right? So that's 230 skill factor. 30% of INT counts, so a maxed spy or monk gets 30 of those points right there. There aren't as many RES implants, so you're going to be doing good to have 25 counting one rare implant, 35 if you can get two, and another 15 if you can get it for the researcher machina glove. So let's figure it at +40 for implants. +4 for self-buff. That's a total of 74 skill factor points without any lab outpost bonus, leaving the RESer to need a raw RES of 156. Lower if you have access to a lab and don't mind the commute, higher if you're a dual CST/RES because the CST implants have minuses to RES.

Can you do both? Assuming no outposts, you'd need 130 CST (225 points) and about 160 RES (475 points), or 700 points even. A capped spy gets 578 INT subskill points, or about 122 points short. So figure RES comes up short by 25, guaranteeing about a 10% failure rate (and therefore 5% breakage rate?) on e-parts, top spells, and top drones. In other words: Yep, still one skill, even if you're willing to completely forgo the combat requirements of WEP and WPW.

[BradSTL]

... With the changes a Judge can be completely capped with around DEX100 PC175 & WEP 150.

Wait a minute? 150 WEP? That's 1.5xTL! I thought it was supposed to be possible to cap pistols about about TL/2? I thought that the whole point of recommending pistols to tradeskillers and hackers was that they needed fewer points in WEP than a rifle?!?

[Dirus]

I assume that it still takes a Skill Factor equal to twice the TL of the item to cap quality on CST or guarantee RES? The items in the game that have a TL > 100 tend to have quality caps, so effectively the max TL for these purposes may be 100, or maybe 110. Let's use 110. That means that to guarantee success on a CST or RES roll, you need a combined Skill Factor of 220.

CST: The formula counts 10% of your INT and 20% of your DEX so 30 of that 220 is covered, but only if you're a capped spy. Assume CST chips 1, 2, and 3, plus one rare +10 chip, +5 for self-buff, +15 if you can get the faction database item the Constructor Machina Glove. That's a lot off pluses, a total of +60, not even counting any factory outpost bonuses. So you're on your own to cover the remaining 130, or 145 if you can't get the CST glove. Knock 5 off of that if you can get two of the rare CST chips. Result is 5 to 10 points lower than the last estimate of capped skill for an Engineer. Granted, that's 25 to 50 free skill points, but my enthusiasm is muted.

RES: E-parts are 115, right? So that's 230 skill factor. 30% of INT counts, so a maxed spy or monk gets 30 of those points right there. There aren't as many RES implants, so you're going to be doing good to have 25 counting one rare implant, 35 if you can get two, and another 15 if you can get it for the researcher machina glove. So let's figure it at +40 for implants. +4 for self-buff. That's a total of 74 skill factor points without any lab outpost bonus, leaving the RESer to need a raw RES of 156. Lower if you have access to a lab and don't mind the commute, higher if you're a dual CST/RES because the CST implants have minuses to RES.

Can you do both? Assuming no outposts, you'd need 130 CST (225 points) and about 160 RES (475 points), or 700 points even. A capped spy gets 578 INT subskill points, or about 122 points short. So figure RES comes up short by 25, guaranteeing about a 10% failure rate (and therefore 5% breakage rate?) on e-parts, top spells, and top drones. In other words: Yep, still one skill, even if you're willing to completely forgo the combat requirements of WEP and WPW.

Your forgetting that depending on your setup you get an additional 20 or so levels alteast in both DEX & INT with the tradeskill boosting IMPs. I may be a little off here with the atleast part, but its pretty close without actually digging through the stats on the implants. but that gives you an additional 6 towards CST and RES. Plus there is drugs that increase your INT & DEX.

So yes is still is for the most part 1 main per skill, but that really depends on how you play your character. Yes Solo players are at somewhat of a disadvantage when compared to those who are in a clan strong enough to hold an Op, but that is one of the ideas behind having the bonuses on the Op's.

Also Selfbuffing with level 1 buffs and drawing the line at that doesn't really benefit those who have gone out and played the game in a way that allows them access to the high buffs. If you want to be able to do it all and on your own, then its going to be harder for you. Since theres an issue with boosting the solo players too much that those who don't play solo can do everything at one time with 1 character.

Wait a minute? 150 WEP? That's 1.5xTL! I thought it was supposed to be possible to cap pistols about about TL/2? I thought that the whole point of recommending pistols to tradeskillers and hackers was that they needed fewer points in WEP than a rifle?!?

Was it stated that Pistols would only require TL/2 WEP wise? If so show me where and I'll see about reducing it. As for Tradeskillers + pistols. If you want Combat + Tradeskill, then you're not going ot be able to Do CST + RES + PC. Drop one of the main tradeskills, and plan on speccing more PC to cover the missing WEP.

[StealthyAssassi]

I did the following:
I created an imagined Spy+Pistol, Spy+Rifle and Tank+H-C - all capped, all spent all their skillpoints on their combatskills:

Spy+Pistol: 175 WEP, 117 Dex (to carry Slasher - reached by using Motoric 3 and all 3 Drugs), 142 P-C, 87 T-C
Spy+Rifle: 175 WEP, 117 Dex (to carry Disruptor - read above above), 141 R-C, 88 T-C
Tank+H-C: 76 WEP, 118 STR (to carry Doom Beamer or whatever - just for comparison reason with the Spies), 175 H-C, whatever T-C

This is all theoretical! Now I calculated their old "hidden" stats, and the new ones, added them up and calculated the average, and compared the old average to the new one.
This calculation implicates that P-C got boosted by 7%, R-C by 3% and H-C by 21%!
P.S.: Other calaculations show that the boost is P-C 5.5%, R-C 2.5% and H-C (still) 21%