why do you find it hard to accept their is people in this game who kill whoevere they want when they want and not giving to shits about faction?
you ever heard of jack the ripper for instance and other serial killers?
if they excist in the real world then why not in a game that is tryign to reflect a cybpunk earth in a dodgy world more then modern time now
but there is no serial killers in neocron anymore, so i would not class as cyberpunk apocalyptic a dangerous world
ignorance is bliss?
Ok we are starting to look at the points sensibly. The only thing I would question is that the % you mention are based on your own point of view (and the same could be said for any I offered) and as such you may not be aware of the same problems that I am (since I have LE in I dont bother going to Outposts but I do get to watch alot of ganking in Aggy)Quote:
Originally posted by Scikar
I honestly believe that 90% of player killings are justified. A CA at CRP, which is right outside TG canyon, has no reason to complain when he gets killed, and does not even deserve an explanation why he was killed, since it should be obvious. If he's just a newbie then personally I'd tell him to leave rather than kill him straight off, but for people with high level chars who think they have some god given right to cap out at CRP I don't see why I have to bother saying anything.
The other 10% is unjustified killing, such as sewer and aggie cellar ganking. That's just plain wrong, which is why I agree with the hunting zones in those areas.
Now are you going to seriously tell me that it's fair to ruin PvP purely because a few people pick on lowbies in aggie cellars? Do whatever you want to make PKing in areas like that have extremely harsh penalties, but it's no reason to have hunting zones at CRP, or have QBs for everyone in all areas.
And PvP is the point of NC - what are all those OPs for? Why have warzones? Why does SL exist in the first place if the only thing affecting it is PvP? Why is it possible to target other players?
Its interesting that a city runner at TG should expect death, he shouldnt be here - but TG doesnt seem to have the same 'RP compunction' when it comes to visiting NC. Now I know I'm going to get all the readeskill bullshit as a reply to this but hey, if you wanna RP, then the first thing you have to accept is that you are the outcast and the outcast doesnt get access to the 'civilised world' (I know this is suppsed to change when DoY arrives, but where is DoY......)
I'm not actually trying to nerf PvP, I'm trying to make the LE and easier option to swallow (i.e. allowed clans and head slot) and I'm trying to make PvP a fairer prospect for those of us who dont have time to replace something that may have taken weeks to obtain (and this need not be a rare) such as limit PvP to players of a similar rank (such as the PvP kills in the Epic runs)
I find it hard to accept there are so many of them :-) and they can get away with it so easily (yeah officer his name was Style and hes a TG runner right here in the city, what do you mean there nothing you can do about it!!!!!)Quote:
Originally posted by Style
why do you find it hard to accept their is people in this game who kill whoevere they want when they want and not giving to shits about faction?
you ever heard of jack the ripper for instance and other serial killers?
if they excist in the real world then why not in a game that is tryign to reflect a cybpunk earth in a dodgy world more then modern time now
but there is no serial killers in neocron anymore, so i would not class as cyberpunk apocalyptic a dangerous world
ignorance is bliss?
and I find it hard to accept that I am not safe within the inner city limits (such as aggy cellars) as the NCPD would have me believe
Quote:
Originally posted by 5150
So we never had a cold war then? All the fighting just somehow managed to slip everyone by?.........
So how do TG garner support for their cause?..... by informing people of Rezas previous treachary to TG? By informing people exactly what the copbots are made of? no by killing all the people they are supposed to be trying to 'save' from Reza (having previously 'saved' them from the Monks). Well that sold me, where do I sign up?
Christ even NeMa has picked up on this one
Just think for a second. Let's take Al Qaeda as an example. It's a bad example, because they're fighting against democracy rather than for it, and technically they are terrorists rather than freedom fighters, but they'll do. When American soldiers approach an Al Qaeda base, do they
a) Shoot the Americans before they shoot them,
or
b) All pull out megaphones and put on name tags and rush out to greet the Americans and get all friendly with them and try to persuade them to join?
There is a time and a place for propaganda and recruitment drive. You don't recruit people by forcing soldiers who work for your enemy to join you. You kill them, and you recruit from people who are already sympathetic to your cause. What do you think the response is when I try to persuade a Tangent to join TG? You guessed it, he stalls me for time and pretends to be interested while his clan come along to kill me.
Not to mention of course, if all we forced people to move from TT, CA, BT, CM, and other city factions and join TG, wouldn't thos who were left in the city complain that TG were too powerful?
So start as TG - what a delightfully intelligent and 'open to RP' replyQuote:
Originally posted by Marx
TG folk get support for their cause by liberating the people. MC5 is the evidence that the City Admin brainwashes its people - the only way to deal is to destroy the City Admins ability to economically cope (i.e. OP wars) or to take it out directly against CA officials - in the hope that it will slow down CA's slow trudge towards total control (i.e. PK):)
1st of all, i am not tg. i are black dragon
2nd, there is not many serial killers in this game, yet the average war veteran who fights in many wars, just like a soldier who fights for usa or uk?
but in the future where guns are not ilegal, and you can get awa with crime of killing your enemy, so whats the big poblem
Sounds to me like you are trying to nerf not only PvP in this game, but destroy the entire atmosphere. Want to know what made Neocron so special for people? The sense of danger. Knowing that at any moment you could die if you slipped up. The most active I ever saw MB on Pluto was when it was getting constantly raided. Hell, even the lowbies charged into battle if only to give the higher ups more time to kill the enemy.Quote:
Originally posted by 5150
I'm not actually trying to nerf PvP, I'm trying to make the LE and easier option to swallow (i.e. allowed clans and head slot) and I'm trying to make PvP a fairer prospect for those of us who dont have time to replace something that may have taken weeks to obtain (and this need not be a rare) such as limit PvP to players of a similar rank (such as the PvP kills in the Epic runs)
Now, MB is a ghost town.
As far as TG's going into NC...give us an equal place of safety to tradeskill and we will, also, allow us to raid the City and you won't see a TG there.
As far as LE players...Guess what? You don't take the risks other players do therefore you don't deserve to have clans, and you do deserve to lose a brainslot. Thats the price you pay for invulnerability. Get used to it.
Ok, lets look at this reasonably.Quote:
I'm trying to make the LE and easier option to swallow (i.e. allowed clans and head slot)
Why do LE users need an extra headslot? They are protected while they can level in peace. Other persons without it do not have that grace, and can be "ONOZ PKAD!!" while leveling, cutting their progression short. It is neccesary for those without LE's to use as many imps as possible so as they can use a good weapon to fight back against those that attack them before they really should...
Hell, I'm tired of tidying this up.
People without LE's need their brainslots for their ideal PvP setup.
LE users don't.
LE Clans... hell - I fought for them earlier on, but it just grants the wearer to be amazingly rude without fear of death.
You can't bring in the TG are safe in the city argument. Ask around enough and you'll find the vast majority of TG support being kicked out of the city by CopBots. Personally I used to never ever go to Plaza, until all the tradeskillers stopped working in TG to work for the ones who did. Wherever possible I go to a clan mate and we work at an OP, or in clan apt. But I don't go to plaza by choice.
And would you ever join TG 5150? Or would you rather die?
i'm a player who has my LE in at all times and i wouldnt want it removed. i dont want to participate in PvP but i recognise that its a core element of the game.
The fact that the LE is here is fine with me but there have been significant nerf's to the PvP aspect. even i'm not blind to that. so the issue here it seems to me is how to un-nerf the PvP play without affecting people like me who dont ever want to PvP.
Firstly, in order to keep new players they need to be protected (because self-regulation isnt working) so maybe a no pvp until level 15 or 20 regardless of whether you got an LE or not is an option.
Second, LE users get a lot of abuse on the forum (and in game) because of the PKers who abuse the LE. One idea i had was that in order to put in a LE you had to do say 10 missions since your last PK, that way you have to be in public where others can get revenge attacks on you for some time.
Third, the penalties for PKing are too harsh (even i can see that) so maybe its limited to losing SL equivalent to the level difference between you and the other player, rather than an imediate -16 for the first kill.
there are other possible ideas i've heard such as restrictions on level so that you can only attack someone +/- 10 levels to yours (not combat rank cos that can vary too much, and change without you noticing). or what about only SL loss if you initiated the attack, so someone DEFENDING themselves cant lose SL. You could remove the quickbelt drop and just drop 1 item (regardless of whether you are red sl or not) on the floor if you are PK'd but only if he did more damage than the mob you were busy fighting when he killed you.
any of these ideas might improve PvP, i dont know cos i dont only you can judge. but the last thing i want is to quit this game because i dont have the LE option and its just frustrating playing it (i get enough of that in work).
As a counter point I basically stopped playing when my LE was out (so I could for a clan with my friends, but once they left I put my LE back in) I just couldnt stand the fact that everywhere I went I basically had to expect some bored capped guy to blow me away and ruin whatever I was trying to do (because it wasnt PvP)Quote:
Originally posted by BlackPrince
Sounds to me like you are trying to nerf not only PvP in this game, but destroy the entire atmosphere. Want to know what made Neocron so special for people? The sense of danger. Knowing that at any moment you could die if you slipped up. The most active I ever saw MB on Pluto was when it was getting constantly raided. Hell, even the lowbies charged into battle if only to give the higher ups more time to kill the enemy.
Now, MB is a ghost town.
As far as TG's going into NC...give us an equal place of safety to tradeskill and we will, also, allow us to raid the City and you won't see a TG there.
As far as LE players...Guess what? You don't take the risks other players do therefore you don't deserve to have clans, and you do deserve to lose a brainslot. Thats the price you pay for invulnerability. Get used to it.
In a similar responce to your last paragraph - why should TG have a place of safety (personally I thought the canyon was safe enough) while I chose not to get involved in PvP, TG players chose to be the 'bad guys' why shouldnt that also have a downside - your eager to penalise me but dont seem to apply the same sence of balance to yourself
While I accept that you would expect some kind of disadvantage keeping the LE in the head slot and non-clan just dont make sence. The headslot prevents you from fully realising PvM (which in leiu of PvP is the only combat you have left so the only reason you'd need head implants) and a clan is useful for so much more than PvP. Its the only real unit for player organisation in the game - preventing LE players from joining/forming one curbs alot of social/RP opportunities from them.
To shatter your 'PvP setup' statement, my monk setup (its a hybrid so as you can see PvP is not the goal) needs all 4 slots
I'll offer another example for one of my previous points....
A while back in Neocronical a reporter faked their death (after seeing MC5 IIRC) to join TG. That is and would be impossible for a player under the games current circumstance. Most players just dont have the capacity to see belond the trigger and its exaqctly this kind of situation where 'enemies' would not blow each other away at first glance. In fact the whole thing is only possible with the 'story' TG (as opposed to the game TG)
You shattered my setup statement?o_O
Let me reiterate exactly what I said concerning the LE Chip: Those players who choose to wear it do not take the risks that other players without the LE do. Therefore, they have not earned the privelege of having clans. Losing one brain slot is a small price to pay for invulnerability.
Secondly, if you're so paranoid about being killed, make friends. I have been PK'd outside of an OpFight exactly 5 times since US Retail. During that time I played all classes as either a TG, CM, or FA.
5 times in...almost a year. 3 of the Chars were solo (saturn and uranus) 1 was on Pluto whom I still play to this day. If you are getting constantly killed, its more likely you are doing something to make yourself a target. Either that, or somehow I have aquired a magic "Anti-PK" spray.
NOT.
I play smart and don't put myself into positions where my survival isn't dependant on the goodwill of other human beings.
So to recap in the simplest way possible: LE Chip= Copout. That means you don't get all the goodies those of us with balls get.
Little Risk, Little Reward. Big Risk, Big Reward.
So I have to make friends yet not be dependant on the goodwill of other for my survivalQuote:
Originally posted by BlackPrince
You shattered my setup statement?o_O
Let me reiterate exactly what I said concerning the LE Chip: Those players who choose to wear it do not take the risks that other players without the LE do. Therefore, they have not earned the privelege of having clans. Losing one brain slot is a small price to pay for invulnerability.
Secondly, if you're so paranoid about being killed, make friends. I have been PK'd outside of an OpFight exactly 5 times since US Retail. During that time I played all classes as either a TG, CM, or FA.
5 times in...almost a year. 3 of the Chars were solo (saturn and uranus) 1 was on Pluto whom I still play to this day. If you are getting constantly killed, its more likely you are doing something to make yourself a target. Either that, or somehow I have aquired a magic "Anti-PK" spray.
NOT.
I play smart and don't put myself into positions where my survival isn't dependant on the goodwill of other human beings.
So to recap in the simplest way possible: LE Chip= Copout. That means you don't get all the goodies those of us with balls get.
Little Risk, Little Reward. Big Risk, Big Reward.
Make your mind up please
I thought it was rather straightforward.
Just because I'm friends with people does not mean I'm dependent on their good will for my continued survival. Maybe thats whats wrong with you. You have no survival skills and thus rely on a crutch (LE) to survive when otherwise your own stupidity or lack of skill would have driven you from the game long ago had things taken their natural course.
Yet once again evolution is foiled to the greater detriment of the population.:rolleyes:
If you don't like PvP, don't want to wear your LE, and don't have an interest in taking responsibility for your own actions I suggest you find another game.
Remove the LE now, and later on we'll work on getting warning labels removed off RL items so that the stupid will go back to killing themselves.
Haha, now I remembered why I luv you BP :D