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MC5 Rare Implant should still be stronger than T3/t4 implants. But like other ppl said before, with this low server pop it is very hard to get one of theese. Maybe it should be a little easier to get them.
Offtopic: I think WOC Weapons need to be much stronger than normal/Rare Weapons.
It sounds like so far the server population is counting as a significant factor in people's opinions of how these implants should function.
Bragi's first option to give mc5 implants a token (non-primary-stat-changing) would certainly achieve the goal to lower the entry level to PVP. His question: "Is something that gives +20 hack really worth obtaining compared a $50k BT FSM item?" It would make for some varied setups, but would they be varied enough to really help each class do something else worthwhile? This seems like a lot of work to sort all the token bonuses.
I really like Bragi's second option... perhaps because it seems like the path of least resistance: make rare/MC5 implants follow the curve with the rest of the implants. They offer a slightly better bonus than the prior level implant, they make enough difference to be desirable to the people who want them, but not enough to ::significantly:: affect PVPers who don't have them. This also answers Bragi's "is it worth it" question.
BUT OFT, why the hell would I go after an MC5 implant that only offers a slight benefit compared to the previous implant?
Because you can't stop yourself. Will you really be able to sleep at night knowing that a couple of your clan members spent the time to get them and you don't have them? What do you think members of the rival clan are packing in their heads? I think this is a healthy vacuum to have because it promotes endgame PVE without hurting endgame PVP, lowers the entry to PVP, and does not significantly affect people who don't have the T5 implants.
And make the MC5 implants hard to get. Make them expensive to purchase if you want to skimp out and buy them from someone else. And if you never actually get one because you don't play much or can't find the server population to help you, then at least you'll know that you are only at a slight disadvantage compared to those other players who have the time/luck/population/motivation to get them. And you can still PVP.
In my opinion the rare and MC5 implants are fine the way they are now. So I vote for one of these 2 options:
- Rare and MC5 implants should do what the Tier 3 implants do, but just a bit better.
- Rare and MC5 implants should afford bonuses significantly above those of the Tier 3 implants.
I like the recent changes to the basecommander, making MC5s harder to get. But making MC5s harder to get and then nerf them to being optional doesnt make any sense!
At least now you have a goal, something to work towards to, in a team. Neocron is still easy enough to cap and equip your character in a matter of a few weeks even if you dont have much time to play. If you know your way around NC you can cap and equip your character much much faster!
People and society at large have become lazy and are used to instant satisfaction and entertainment! So dont make this game too casual because of this.
Without going through too many comments, just my two cents in here:
NST wanted the MC5 become harder for certain reasons, wich is a good idea to let rare chips become rare.
The question is: why should a player farm for those, if there is a possible well working setup without the real need of a MC5? If it becomes just some sort of gimmick, why go farm them at all?
Over a decade one thing was clearly visible quite often: the unawarenessnes of what happens if you just turn one screw in the system.
Neocron in my personal opinion faces an upcoming problem in the future: with flatlining and bringing things closer together the speciality of certain things is significiantly reduced even more. Thus resulting in a game without real specialities. May it concern Implants, weapons, armor, or whatever. Keeping up variety of specialities makes things interesting and worth obtaining! As we start to reduce this its time to warn about this bad trend...
Seen this now due to balancing project a little. To me most weapons only differ in damage comparable in TL and thus maybe in a set frequency i cannot influence anymore, lenght of salve wich I cannot change (but other games offer that), and how it "looks like". The only real difference are clearly seen in indirect fire modes like the Winding Argument, the slow moving rocket of a rocket weapon, .... but these are nerfed so hard, that rarely ever someone uses it except maybe for leveling. I hope you get the point if I remember the freezer cannon, with wich you could really freeze your target. Correctly balanced in terms of carry weight, ammo useage, and reload time or aiming it still could be a strategic weapon. But for a long time now these weapons are just a statistic in the list of TH.org.
Do you want this to happen with MC5s now as well ??? I dont hope so :(
"Never change a running system" ... you know these "wise" words.
I would go vote for more variety , difficulty, content and speciality together with both points you offered:
- Rare and MC5 implants should afford bonuses significantly above those of the Tier 3 implants.
- The Rares and MC5s do something different. (BUT PLESE ADDITIONALLY)
Change the core of the game first, then change all the variables to the game.
This will just further dick PEs over.
Alright - I've read quite a number of varying opinions on this so far. Guess I could just as well throw in mine.
I can see the reason in each of Bragi's options up there,but I'd like to offer a fifth.
My idea would be to entirely disconnect stats and skills on brain implants - meaning that in the end you'd have implants that either boost your stats (like coordination advancement etc) up to I'd say rare level (+2 for Tier 1, +4 for Tier 2, +6 for Tier 3 and +8-10 for Tier 4 (rares)). And the majority of implants would then offer skill bonuses along the lines of what long Distance CPUs or Melee Memory chips already do. These bonuses can then be scaled according to the tier of the implant: +7 for tier 1, +14 for tier 2, +21 for Tier 3, +30 for rares and say +45 for MC5 or whatever. I'm just throwing in some numbers here. But with such a modification you archive two things. First of all you get a nice and hefty bonus on the rare implants which should be enough to make them desirable - but at the same time you also make people think about what they want - either great skill to make best use of their guns, or rather the stats to wear the last sets of power armor.
Also important:
Get rid of all those commas and half-skill-point bonuses on implants and make the bonuses as simple as they used to be. No more +3.45 to something - make it either 3 or 4.
Also to avoid flooding the game with new rares I would like to bring back an idea of the past - make the Tier 4 attribute boosters of my suggestion hacknet items just like SF, SSC etc. used to be so long ago.
Oh and while I am at it I'd like to add some more suggestions regarding implants in general.
1st: Psi backbones
I guess it is common knowledge, that monks are at loss when it comes to implants. All they got is their eye, a set of brain chips and their glove - but they are still lacking one important item-type which other classes do have: Backbones. If implants are to be overhauled I'd suggest to also look into this. I guess there would be a lot of grateful monks if they were to get a psi-backbone.
The idea i have is that of a backbone with psi-resonating crystals or alloys which turn it into some sort of conduit for psychic energy. In practical terms: A small psi boost and a more substantial bonus to psi power and psi use - maybe complemented by a minor focusing boost on higher level backbones.
2nd: Trader implants
From what i see in the streets many players seem to regard traders such as myself as the odd people of Neocron - but at the same time they forget that it is the traders who supply them with the really good equipment they need. Traders are a necessity - it's that simple. Yet implant-wise we are still pretty much stuck in stone age. The only trader class who got a decent set of implants this far is the conster. Others such as researcher, poker or barter barely have anything useful. Let's take a closer look:
CST: cst-chips 1-3, TH-CPU, SSC, Hawking, Adv. Nerves, glove
RES: TH-CPU, SSC, Hawking, Adv. Nerves, glove
Poker: Glove
Barter: Jones-implant
That is it. You may now argue that it doesn't take much to be a good poker - yes, you are correct, but imagine this: Currently implanting is a secondary job for characters who set aside int-points for it. But what if the monk (cliche, i know, but a great many of pokers happen to be monks) could use their int for more psi use instead and get their IMP-bonus from a Tier 3 surgical memory chip?
Also barters are in dire need of some support as is they currently cap out around 180 skill - which is barely even a joke when compared to a fully equipped conster who caps at like 252 or so. Granted, most people would deny needing a barter, but in truth many of them profit from a barter's service, because traders usually use the discount granted by a barter to cut their own costs and be able to offer stuff more cheaply. Stuff which then is bought by the average player. I'd love to see the trading professions on par with one another. Meaning at least the selection of brain chips for all of them. ( Tier 1-3 and perhaps overhauling the TH-CPU and SSC so that all four professions profit from it. Or adding another set of chips to take the place of TH-CPU and SSC for pokers and barters).
Overall I have come to the impression that the presence of traders has become taken for granted, but traders are not some NPCs. They are players just like the shooting ones. So why have the traders been overlooked for so many years? This question goes both to other players AND to the devs. When was the last time you just hung out with your favorite conster or resser, just for the same type of idle chat you are enjoying with your battle brothers? Most people stick strictly to business but don't really interact with the traders they are buying stuff from. That's a shame. Anyway.. I'll leave it at this before I start ranting ^^
I would, however, like to get some feedback to this - particularly from staff.
After a discussion with Bragi I sat down and wrote a list of how I would overhaul the implants.
I followed my previously outlined course of action and disconnected stats and skills on brain implants.
Implant penalties are selected according to what seems reasonable given the implant's function. The linear progression from Tier 1 to Tier 3 is inspired by Cyberware qualities from Shadowrun (Standard Cyberware, Alphaware, Betaware, etc.).
The general idea is to make the player think closely about what they want to focus on: unlocking the highest tier of armor through stats vs. optimizing damage by maxing out offensive skills, resistances vs. speed and agility etc. The idea is to emphasize diversity. This way there is no longer only one proper setup for say a H-C Tank, a Rifle-Spy etc.
Here we go. Due to limitation of characters per post I will, however, have to make two posts out of this. I also uploaded the file to my dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5pl7105ot4...ework.ods?dl=0
WARNING! WALL OF TEXT AHEAD!
Brain Chips:
INT based:
TL Name Requirements Modifiers Comment:
10 Neural Advancement V0.1 INT:10 INT +2
19 Accounting Memory V 1.0 INT:19 BRT +10; WEP -5 NEW!
19 Surgical Memory V 1.0 INT:19 IMP +10; WEP -5 NEW!
19 Research Database Link V 1.0 INT:19 RES +10; WEP -5 NEW!
19 Construction Coordinator V1.0 INT:19 CST +10; WEP -5
20 Neural Advancement V0.2 INT:20 INT +4
23 Hacking Accelerator V1.1 INT:23 HCK +10; FCS -5
28 Neural Advancement V0.3 INT:28 INT +6
28 Accounting Memory V 2.0 INT:46 BRT +20; WEP -10 NEW!
28 Surgical Memory V 2.0 INT:46 IMP +20; WEP -10 NEW!
28 Research Database Link V 2.0 INT:46 RES +20; WEP -10 NEW!
28 Construction Coordinator V2.0 INT:46 CST +20; WEP -10
50 Hacking Accelerator V1.2 INT:50 HCK +20; FCS -10
74 Accounting Memory V 3.0 INT:74 BRT +30; WEP -15 NEW!
74 Surgical Memory V 3.0 INT:74 IMP +30; WEP -15 NEW!
74 Research Database Link V 3.0 INT:74 RES +30; WEP -15 NEW!
74 Construction Coordinator V3.0 INT:74 CST +30; WEP -15
78 Hacking Accelerator V1.3 INT:78 HCK +30; FCS -15
81 Tech Haven CPU INT:35 CST +15; RES +15; REC +15; REP +15; T-C -20; WEP -20
84 Special Science CPU INT:84 RES +35; CST +35; T-C -20; WEP -30 General Note: Rendering traders using these implants unable to hit the broad side of a barn is intentional. Traders can't fight back without sacrificing their efficiency.
85 Cerebral Processing Core INT:85 INT +12; STR -6 NEW! (Tier 4 attribute booster, HN Item)
115 Area MC5 Hawking Chip INT:95 HCK +45; CST +40; RES +40; WEP -40 Requirements for ALL MC5 chips set to a related attribute of 95.
STR based:
TL Name Requirements Modifiers Comment:
5 Experience Melee Memory V0.01 Beta STR:5 ------ [REMOVED!] (Due to redundancy with Berserk chip)
13 Enhanced Physics CPU V0.1 STR:13 STR +2
13 Synapse Soldier MOD S-11 STR:13 H-C +10; P-C -5; R-C -5
18 Synapse Berserk MOD X-11 STR:18 M-C +10; H-C -5 Requirements changed to equal soldier chip
24 Enhanced Physics CPU V0.2 STR:24 STR +4
30 Experience Melee Memory V.0.02 Beta STR:30 ------ [REMOVED!] (Due to redundancy with Berserk chip)
32 Enhanced Physics CPU V0.3 STR:32 STR +6
41 Synapse Soldier MOD S-12 STR:41 H-C +20; P-C -10; R-C -10
41 Synapse Berserk MOD X-12 STR:41 M-C +20; H-C -10 Requirements changed to equal soldier chip
55 Experience Melee Memory V.0.03 Beta STR:55 ------ [REMOVED!] (Due to redundancy with Berserk chip)
66 Synapse Soldier MOD S-13 STR:66 H-C +30; P-C -15; R-C -15
66 Synapse Berserk MOD X-13 STR:66 M-C +30; H-C -15 Requirements changed to equal soldier chip
81 Marines CPU STR:81 TRA +20; WEP +25; T-C +15; AGL -15
85 Steroid Injector STR:85 STR +12; INT -6 NEW! (Tier 4 attribute booster, HN Item)
115 Area MC5 Hercules CPU STR:95 M-C +45; ATL +15; END +10; H-C -20 Requirements for ALL MC5 chips set to a related attribute of 95.
115 Area MC5 Balistic CPU STR:95 H-C +45; WPL +15; TRA +10; P-C -20; R-C -20 Requirements for ALL MC5 chips set to a related attribute of 95.
CON based:
TL Name Requirements Modifiers Comment:
10 Persistence Advancement CPU V0.1 CON:10 CON +2
14 Blood Filtration Controller V 1.1 CON 14 XRR +15; ENR +15; POR +15; END -5 NEW! General note: I have taken away resistance bonuses from other brain implants and instead created dedicated resistance implants.
20 Dermal Armor Maintenance CPU V 1.0 CON:20 FOR +15; PCR +15; FIR +15; AGL -5 NEW!
21 Advanced Movement Controler V1.1 CON:21 ATL +10; END +10; AGL -5
21 Persistence Advancement CPU V0.2 CON:21 CON +4
28 Blood Filtration Controller V 1.2 CON:28 XRR +25; ENR +25; POR +25; END -10 NEW!
29 Persistence Advancement CPU V0.3 CON:29 CON +6
35 Dermal Armor Maintenance CPU V 2.0 CON:35 FOR +25; PCR +25; FIR +25; AGL -10 NEW!
47 Advanced Movement Controler V1.2 CON:47 ATL +20; END +20; AGL -10
65 Blood Filtration Controller V 1.3 CON:65 XRR +40; ENR +40; POR +40; END -15 NEW!
70 Advanced Movement Controller V.1.3 CON:70 ATL +30; END +30; AGL -15
75 Dermal Armor Maintenance CPU V 3.0 CON:75 FOR +40; PCR +40; FIR +40; AGL -15 NEW!
81 Advanced Tactical Mercenary CPU CON:35 HLT +15; H-C +10; AGL -5
81 NCPD Special Unit CPU CON:35 HLT +15; R-C +10; AGL -5
81 Freedom Fighter CPU CON:35 HLT +15; P-C +10; AGL -5
81 BioTech M.O.V.E.O.N. CPU CON:35 FOR +20; PCR +20; END +20; AGL -10 The significant Agility-penalties on CON-implants are basically trading agility for survivability. You'll survive, but you will be slower.
81 ProtoPharm Resistor Chip CON:35 XRR +20; ENR +20; POR +20; AGL -10
85 Trauma Control CPU CON:85 CON +12; DEX -6 NEW! (Tier 4 attribute booster, HN Item)
DEX based:
TL Name Requirements Modifiers Comment:
6 Targetingcomputer V0.01 DEX:6 WEP +10; FCS -5
7 Close Combat CPU V.1.0 DEX:7 P-C +10; R-C -5; H-C -5
10 Drone Distance Interface V1.1 DEX:10 WPW +10; WEP -5
10 Long Distance CPU V.0.1 DEX:10 R-C +10; P-C -5; H-C -5
11 Coordination Advancement V0.1 DEX:11 DEX +2
19 Balance Advancer V1.01 DEX:19 AGL +10; END -5
22 Coordination Advancement V0.2 DEX:20 DEX +4
23 Vehicle Interface V1.1 DEX:23 VHC +10; ATL -5 It would be nice if VHC would do more than just unlocking vehicles for use. For example increasing turning speed for vehicles the higher your skill is above the vehicle's requirements (up to a certain limit)
23 Mindcontrol CPU V1.1 DEX:23 RCL +10; END -5
25 Experimental Mindcontrol CPU V2.1 DEX:25 WPW +5; RCL +5; WEP -5
30 Coordination Advancement V0.3 DEX:29 DEX +6
31 Experimental Ballistic Chip V2.1 DEX:31 T-C +10; RCL -5
32 Balance Advancer V.1.02 DEX:32 AGL +20; END -10
33 Targetingcomputer V0.02 DEX:33 WEP +20; FCS -10
34 Close Combat CPU V.1.1 DEX:34 P-C +20; R-C -10; H-C -10
37 Drone Distance Interface V1.2 DEX:37 WPW + 20; WEP -10
37 Long Distance CPU V.0.2 DEX:37 R-C +20; P-C -10; H-C -10
49 Vehicle Interface V1.2 DEX:49 VHC +15; REP +5; ATL -10 A good rigger/driver knows not only how to operate the vehicle, but also how to fix it.
50 Mindcontrol CPU V1.2 DEX:50 RCL +20; END -10
54 Experimental-Mindcontrol CPU V.2.2 DEX:54 WPW +10; RCL +10; WEP -10
58 Balance Advancer V.1.03 DEX:58 AGL +30; END -15
61 Experimental Balistic Chip V2.2 DEX:61 T-C +20; RCL -10
61 Close Combat CPU V.1.2 DEX:61 P-C +30; R-C -15; H-C -15
61 Targetingcomputer V0.03 DEX:61 WEP +30; FCS -15
62 Vehicle Interface V1.3 DEX:62 VHC +20; REP +10
65 Long Distance CPU V.0.3 DEX:65 R-C +30; P-C -15; H-C -15
65 Drone Distance Interface V1.3 DEX:65 WPW +30; WEP -15
76 Experimental-Mindcontrol CPU V.2.3 DEX:76 WPW +15; RCL +15; WEP -15
78 Mindcontrol CPU V.1.3 DEX:78 RCL +30; END -15
79 Experimental Balistic Chip V.2.3 DEX:79 T-C +30; RCL -15
83 Special SWAT Processor DEX:83 P-C +35; WEP +20; REC + 15; R-C 20; H-C -20
83 Special Forces CPU DEX:83 R-C +35; WEP +20; REC + 15; P-C 20; H-C -20
85 Synapse Booster DEX:85 DEX +12; CON -6 NEW! (Tier 4 attribute booster, HN Item)
88 Special Rigger Interface DEX:88 WPW +35; RCL +30; VHC +30; REP +20; WEP 40; FCS 25 Drones are not the only things that can be rigged.
115 Area MC5 Close Combat Projector DEX:95 P-C +45; WEP +25; T-C +25; R-C 25; H-C -25 Requirements for ALL MC5 chips set to a related attribute of 95.
115 Area MC5 Distance Projector DEX:95 R-C +45; WEP +25; T-C + 25; P-C 25; H-C -25 Requirements for ALL MC5 chips set to a related attribute of 95.
115 Area MC5 Riggers Dream DEX:95 WPW +45; RCL +40; VHC +30; REP +30; WEP 50; FCS 30 Requirements for ALL MC5 chips set to a related attribute of 95.
PSI based:
TL Name Requirements Modifiers Comment:
4 Crahn PSI Controller V.0.1 PSI:4 PSU +10; WEP -5
8 Crahn Defence Field V0.1 PSI:8 ---- [REMOVED!] (unnecessary redundancy with psi Resistor)
11 Crahn PSI Experience Memory Alpha 1 PSI:11 PSI +2
12 Crahn PSI Resistor V0.1 PSI:12 PSR +10; PSU -5
16 Crahn PSI Aggressor CPU V1.1 PSI:16 APU +10, PSU +5; PPU -5; PSR -5
16 Crahn PSI Defender CPU V1.1 PSI:16 PPU +10; PSU +5; APU -5; PSR -5
23 Crahn PSI Experience Memory Alpha 2 PSI:22 PSI +4
25 Experimental Crahn PSI Controller V1.01 PSI:25 PSU +5; FCS +5; T-C -5
29 Crahn PSI Controller V.0.2 PSI:29 PSU +20; WEP -10
33 Crahn Defence Field V0.2 PSI:33 ------ [REMOVED!] (unnecessary redundancy with psi Resistor)
34 Crahn PSI Experience Memory Alpha 3 PSI:34 PSI +6
37 Crahn PSI Resistor V0.2 PSI:37 PSR +20; PSU -10
41 Crahn PSI Aggressor CPU V1.2 PSI:41 APU +20; PSU +10; PPU -10; PSR -10
41 Crahn PSI Defender CPU V1.2 PSI:41 PPU +20; PSU +10; APU -10; PSR -10
50 Experimental Crahn PSI Controller V1.02 PSI:50 PSU +10; FCS +10; T-C -10
54 Crahn PSI Controller V.0.3 PSI:54 PSU +30; WEP -15
58 Crahn PSI Defence Field V0.3 PSI:58 ----- [REMOVED!] (unnecessary redundancy with psi Resistor)
62 Crahn PSI Resistor V0.3 PSI:62 PSR +30; PSU -15
66 Crahn PSI Aggressor CPU V1.3 PSI:66 APU +30; PSU +15; PPU -15; PSR -15
66 Crahn PSI Defender CPU V1.3 PSI:66 PPU +30; PSU +15; APU -15; PSR -15
75 Experimental Crahn PSI Controller V1.03 PSI:75 PSU +15; FCS +15; T-C -15
82 Crahn Combat Core CPU PSI:82 APU +40; PSU +20; PPU -20; PSR -20
82 Crahn Support Core CPU PSI:82 PPU +40; PSU +20; APU -20; PSR -20
85 Tacholytium Psi Matrix PSI:85 PSI +12; INT -3; STR -3 NEW! (Tier 4 attribute booster, HN Item)
115 Area MC5 Dimension Splitter PSI:95 PPW +50; PSU +40; FCS +30; WEP -30; T-C -30 Requirements for ALL MC5 chips set to a related attribute of 95.
Other:
TL Name Requirements Modifiers Comment:
5 Experience Memory Barter CPU V0.01 BRT:15 BRT: +5
Law Enforcer Important change suggestion:
Option 1: allow LE-characters to join clans, but disable the option to take over outposts for these clans. (very useful for trader clans)
Option 2: Remove the limitation of being unable to put the LE back in beyond a certain level (allowing players to freely choose whether they want to participate in PvP or not without punishing them for having surpassed a certain level).
Option 3: Combination of Option 1 and 2.
I for one prefer Option 1 (although Option 3 would be better for existing traders)
Eye Implants
INT based:
TL Name Requirements Modifiers Comment:
14 Smart Cyber GPU V1.01 INT:14 WEP +10; RCL -5 redesigned to make them useful
40 Smart Cyber GPU V1.02 INT:40 WEP +20; RCL -10 redesigned to make them useful
44 Cyber GPU V0.1 INT:44 P‑C:+11 R‑C:+11; H-C -5 redesigned.
60 Smart Cyber GPU V1.03 INT:60 WEP +30; RCL -15 redesigned to make them useful
72 Smart Cyber GPU V1.04 INT:72 WEP +50; RCL -25 redesigned to make them useful (Choice between P-C/R-C/H-C eye for weapon skill and this for pure WEP)
88 Cyber GPU V0.2 INT:88 P‑C:+22 R‑C:+22; H-C -10 redesigned to make these useful for traders to be capable of at least using a Tl 9 pumpgun or low-tech pistol (because there are no useful eyes for traders other than rep/rec)
STR based:
TL Name Requirements Modifiers Comment:
5 Melee Coordinator V0.1 STR:5 WEP:+5 M‑C:+5 T‑C:+5 H-C:-5
5 Heavy Targeting Matrix V0.1 STR:5 WEP:+5 H‑C:+5 T‑C:+5 M-C-5
35 Melee Coordinator V0.2 STR:35 WEP:+10 M‑C:+10 T‑C:+10 H-C:-10
35 Heavy Targeting Matrix V0.2 STR:35 WEP:+10 H‑C:+10 T‑C:+10 M-C:-10
60 Melee Coordinator V0.3 STR:60 WEP:+15 M‑C:+15 T‑C:+15 H-C:-15
60 Heavy Targeting Matrix V0.3 STR:60 WEP:+15 H‑C:+15 T‑C:+15 M-C.-15
DEX based:
TL Name Requirements Modifiers Comment:
5 Pistol Targeting Matrix V0.1 DEX:5 WEP:+5 P‑C:+5 T‑C:+5 R-C:-5
5 Rifle Targeting Matrix V0.1 DEX:5 WEP:+5 R‑C:+5 T‑C:+5 P-C:-5
5 Drone Targetting Matrix V0.1 DEX:5 WPW:+5 T‑C:+5 RCL:+5 H-C:-5
35 Pistol Targeting Matrix V0.2 DEX:35 WEP:+10 P‑C:+10 T‑C:+10 R-C:-10
35 Rifle Targeting Matrix V0.2 DEX:35 WEP:+10 R‑C:+10 T‑C:+10 P-C:-10
35 Drone Targetting Matrix V0.2 DEX:35 WPW:+10 T‑C:+10 RCL:+10 H-C:-10
46 DoY Repair Coordinator DEX:46 REP:+20 WEP:-10
50 DoY Material Analyzer DEX:50 REC:+20 WEP:-10
52 DoY Vehicle Coordination Linkage DEX:52 VHC:+20 WEP:-10
60 Pistol Targeting Matrix V0.3 DEX:60 WEP:+15 P‑C:+15 T‑C:+15 R-C:-15
60 Rifle Targeting Matrix V0.3 DEX:60 WEP:+15 R‑C:+15 T‑C:+15 P-C:-15
60 Drone Targeting Matrix V0.3 DEX:60 WPW:+15 T‑C:+15 RCL:+15 H-C:-15
PSI based:
TL Name Requirements Modifiers Comment:
5 Crahn Psychic Power Mask V0.1 PSI:5 FCS:+5 PPW:+5 WEP:-5
35 Crahn Psychic Power Mask V0.2 PSI:35 FCS:+10 PPW:+10 WEP:-10
60 Crahn Psychic Power Mask V0.3 PSI:69 FCS:+15 PPW:+15 WEP:-15
To be continued in second post..
Backbones:
INT based:
TL Name Requirements Modifiers Comment:
25 Advanced Nerves V1.0 INT:25 INT:+1 HCK:+5 CST:+5 RES:+5 AGL:-5
52 Advanced Nerves V2.0 INT:52 INT:+2 HCK:+10 CST:+10 RES:+10 AGL:-10
80 Advanced Nerves V3.0 INT:80 INT:+3 HCK:+15 CST:+15 RES:+15 AGL:-15
STR based:
TL Name Requirements Modifiers Comment:
14 Strength Booster V1.0 STR:14 STR:+1 TRA:+15 AGL:-5
22 Hardenbackbone V1.0 STR:22 STR:+1 H‑C:+10 TRA:+5 AGL:-5
34 Strength Booster V2.0 STR:34 STR:+2 TRA:+30 AGL:-10
47 Hardenbackbone V2.0 STR:47 STR:+2 H‑C:+20 TRA:+10 AGL:-10
63 Strength Booster V3.0 STR:63 STR:+3 TRA:+45 AGL:-15
72 Hardenbackbone V3.0 STR:72 STR:+3 H‑C:+25 TRA:+20 AGL:-15
DEX based:
TL Name Requirements Modifiers Comment:
15 Dexterity Booster V1.0 DEX:15 DEX:+1 AGL:+15 TRA:-5 Explanation: In trade for the increase in agility which other backbones do not have the dex-backbones are more fragile, resulting in a reduced load limit.
20 Reflexbooster V0.1 DEX:20 DEX:+1 ATL:+10 AGL:+5 TRA:-5 Explanation: In trade for the increase in agility which other backbones do not have the dex-backbones are more fragile, resulting in a reduced load limit.
35 Dexterity Booster V2.0 DEX:35 DEX:+2 AGL:+30 TRA:-10 Explanation: In trade for the increase in agility which other backbones do not have the dex-backbones are more fragile, resulting in a reduced load limit.
40 Reflexbooster V0.2 DEX:40 DEX:+2 ATL:+15 AGL:+15 TRA:-10 Explanation: In trade for the increase in agility which other backbones do not have the dex-backbones are more fragile, resulting in a reduced load limit.
55 Reflexbooster V0.3 DEX:55 DEX:+2 ATL:+20 AGL:+20 TRA:-15 Explanation: In trade for the increase in agility which other backbones do not have the dex-backbones are more fragile, resulting in a reduced load limit.
64 Dexterity Booster V3.0 DEX:64 DEX:+3 AGL:+20 TRA:-15 Explanation: In trade for the increase in agility which other backbones do not have the dex-backbones are more fragile, resulting in a reduced load limit.
70 Experimental Reflex booster V2.3 DEX:70 DEX:+3 END:+25 AGL:+20 TRA:-15 Explanation: In trade for the increase in agility which other backbones do not have the dex-backbones are more fragile, resulting in a reduced load limit.
77 Reflexbooster V0.4 DEX:65 DEX:+3 ATL:+30 AGL:+20 TRA:-20 Explanation: In trade for the increase in agility which other backbones do not have the dex-backbones are more fragile, resulting in a reduced load limit.
78 Experimental Reflex booster V2.4 DEX:78 DEX:+3 END:+35 AGL:+30 TRA:-20 Explanation: In trade for the increase in agility which other backbones do not have the dex-backbones are more fragile, resulting in a reduced load limit.
PSI based:
TL Name Requirements Modifiers Comment:
14 Mercurium Backbone V1.0 PSI:14 PSI +1; PSU +10; PPW +5 AGL:-5 NEW!
35 Mercurium Backbone V2.0 PSI:35 PSI +2; PSU +20; PPW +10 AGL:-10 NEW!
60 Mercurium Backbone V3.0 PSI:60 PSI +3; PSU +30; PPW +15 AGL:-15 NEW!
Hearts:
TL Name Requirements Modifiers Comment:
7 Cyber Heart v0.1 CON:7 CON:+1 END:+5 penalty removed because of minor bonus
11 Strengthen Heart v0.1 CON:11 CON:+1 HLT:+5 penalty removed because of minor bonus
12 Advanced Heart v0.1 CON:12 CON:+1.00 ATL:+5 penalty removed because of minor bonus
16 Filter Heart v0.1 CON:16 CON:+1 XRR:+5 POR:+5 penalty removed because of minor bonus
26 Experimental Heart v0.1 CON:26 CON:+1 HLT:+5 END:+5 penalty removed because of minor bonus
35 Cyber Heart v0.2 CON:35 CON:+2 END:+10 penalty removed because of minor bonus
39 Strengthen Heart v0.2 CON:39 CON:+2 HLT:+10 penalty removed because of minor bonus
40 Advanced Heart v0.2 CON:40 CON:+2 ATL:+10 penalty removed because of minor bonus
43 Filter Heart v0.2 CON:43 CON:+2 XRR:+10 POR:+10 penalty removed because of minor bonus
53 Experimental Heart v0.2 CON:53 CON:+2 HLT:+10 END:+10 penalty removed because of minor bonus
Bones
Head
10 Headbone STR:10 FOR:+5 PSR:+5
28 Biotech Antigamma Headbone STR:28 XRR:+10 PSR:+5
30 Advanced Headbone STR:30 FOR:+10 PSR:+5
50 BioTech Experimental Headbone STR:50 FOR:+15 PSR:+10
Chest
15 Chest Enforcement STR:15 FOR:+5 END:+5
33 BioTech Antigamma Chest STR:33 END:+10 XRR:+10
35 Biotech Advanced Chest Enforcement STR:35 FOR:+10 END:+10
55 BioTech Experimental Chest STR:55 FOR:+10 END:+15
80 Bat Queen Chest Enforcement STR:80 FOR:+20 END:+15
Arm
6 Arm Enforcement STR:6 M‑C:+5 FOR:+5
25 BioTech Anti-gamma Arm enforcement STR:25 M‑C:+5 XRR:+10
26 Advanced Arm Enforcement STR:26 M‑C:+5 FOR:+10
46 BioTech Experimental Arm Enforcement STR:46 M‑C:+10 FOR:+10
76 Bat Queen Arm Enforcement STR:76 M‑C:+15 FOR:+20
Leg
12 Leg Enforcement STR:12 TRA:+5 FOR:+5
32 BioTech Antigamma Leg Enforcement STR:32 TRA:+5 XRR:+10
32 BioTech Advanced Leg Enforcement STR:32 TRA:+5 FOR:+10
52 BioTech Experimental Legenforcement STR:52 TRA:+10 FOR:+15
Foot
4 Foot Enforcement STR:4 FOR:+5 AGL:+5
23 BioTech Antigamma Foot Enforcement STR:23 XRR:+5 AGL:+5
24 BioTech Advanced Foot Enforcement STR:24 FOR:+10 AGL:+5
44 BioTech Experimental Foot Enforcement STR:44 FOR:+10 AGL:+10
Gloves
Psi based:
0 Crahn Novice Gauntlet PSI:1 PSI:+1 PSU:+5 PSI Abilities:+1
30 Crahn Amplifier Gauntlet CAG 1 PSI:30 PSI:+1 PSU:+10 FCS:+10 PSI Abilities:+1 PSR:-5
48 Crahn Amplifier Gauntlet CAG 2 PSI:48 PSI:+2 PSU:+15 FCS:+15 PSI Abilities:+1 PSR:-10
56 Gaya Tacholytium Glove PSI:56 PSI:+3 PSU:+40 PSI Abilities:+1
65 Crahn Amplifier Gauntlet CAG 3 PSI:64 PSI:+3 PSU:+15 FCS:+20 PSI Abilities:+1 PSR:-15
Tradeskills
60 Machina Construction Glove INT:60 INT:+2 CST:+15 TRA:+5 T-C:-5
60 Machina Research Glove INT:60 INT:+2 RES:+15 TRA:+5 T-C:-5
60 Machina Implant Glove INT:60 INT:+2 IMP:+15 TRA:+5 T-C:-5
60 Machina Repair Glove DEX:60 DEX:+2 TRA:+5 REP:+15 T-C:-5
60 Machina Recycle Glove DEX:60 DEX:+2 TRA:+5 REC:+15 T-C:-5
This is it.
Before I start, the revamp had to take some time so thank you for diving into it and making it forum readable and all of that.
I'm initially reeling reading this and kind of altogether balking at the idea presented, but I think bottom line is I need some time to really comprehend and experiment with what this might lead to. It would be interesting if someone were to be so ultra-awesome as to put these proposed changes into nskill to see what kind of builds you could do.
Your comment about diversity is a great start, but it would be helpful if you were to present a collection of setups for one class and point out their high and low points. One thing that will completely destroy this sliding scale of skillpoints vs statpoints is that there are skillcaps for items. You can only get so good at aiming something or can only do so much damage with X weapon. If these caps were removed (or re-negotiated), that would open opportunity for players to buckle down on skillpoints for a build.
My dumb thoughts, in no particular order:
Is it really necessary to have implants put a damper on the opposite skill? If I'm slapping a rifle chip in my head, do I really need some -pc to balance that? Seems over-thought and under-applicable. In what scenario does a rifle/pistol spy pose any more threat than a pure pistol or pure rifle spy? Why do we bother putting enough thought into the negatives of implants that we end up putting -HC on a +RC or PC chip?
Aren't the tier4 stat boosters a little high on requirements?
Can we please just get rid of +endurance on implants? Seems like a total waste of points in most/all cases.
For example - in what scenario would anyone want to choose the proposed Exp. Reflex booster over the plain ol' Reflex booster? Options alone don't create diversity. Good options create diversity. Changing out +END for +WPL or +TC could make the Exp. Reflex booster a contender.
Isn't it time some attack gloves are introduced other than the Psi gloves? Don't we shoot our guns of swing our (stupid) melee with our hands? We added in a whole lot of implants for traders, why don't we just finish the marathon?
60 Machina Heavy Glove Str:60 Str:+2 HC:+15 T-C:+5
60 Machina Melee Dummy Who Needs to Go Play Some Other MMO Glove Str:60 Str:+2 TRA:+5 MC:+15
60 Machina Rifle Glove Dex:60 Dex:+2 RC:+15 T-C:+5
60 Machina Pistol Glove Dex:60 Dex:+2 PC:+15 T-C:+5
60 Machina Droner Butthole Glove Dex:60 Dex:+2 TRA:+5 RCL:+15
No dex backbone could be paired with a holovest unless you wanted to walk around with only a pack of tictacs in your quickbelt. There is no reason to run a holovest setup with any other backbone other than +dex... because there is currently no reason for any spy to rock a +Str backbone. Couple that with the fact that rifles are significantly heavier than pistols and you are basically building a backbone series that will only ever be able to be used by pistol spies.
Part of the blind area here is that armor has its own revamp going and everything is so synergistic, it is difficult to make a decision without knowing what the next step in the process will actually look like.
/edit:
Weren't backbones in NC1 +1/3/5 primary stat? Would love to see that scaling back for many reasons, but that depends on the armor system update that is potentially on the horizon. Back in NC1 putting a Str booster 2 into your spy meant you could rock some Inquisition armor which was freaking game changing. There is no incentive with the current armor system (or backbone system for that matter) to attempt to reach for higher levels of Str as a spy, or a PE.
/edit2:
Dismayed a bit at the complete lack of hybrid monk chips. No one wants the return of the hybrid nuker/healer/tanker, but many people out there want to see room for some hyb monks again.
I agree with Morekai about the list. I hope some of these things will be implemented in the game. The time will tell...
You're welcome. I thought if we want a proper change we need to show those who can make those chances what we want them to look like. so i did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Divide
I'm sure I could come up with a few setups - at least outlining them. For now, however, I had intended to present you all with the results of my thoughts.Quote:
I'm initially reeling reading this and kind of altogether balking at the idea presented, but I think bottom line is I need some time to really comprehend and experiment with what this might lead to. It would be interesting if someone were to be so ultra-awesome as to put these proposed changes into nskill to see what kind of builds you could do.
Your comment about diversity is a great start, but it would be helpful if you were to present a collection of setups for one class and point out their high and low points. One thing that will completely destroy this sliding scale of skillpoints vs statpoints is that there are skillcaps for items. You can only get so good at aiming something or can only do so much damage with X weapon. If these caps were removed (or re-negotiated), that would open opportunity for players to buckle down on skillpoints for a build.
I agree to your point here. As far as I am concerned I wouldn't have put any negatives there at all as cyberware is an improvement over mortal flesh. Thing is, however, that some implants need penalties to maintain some sort of balancing - in example to prevent the hybrid monks you are mentioning later on. So I largely kept the penalties on these types of implants so that all combat implants have some sort of drawbacks.Quote:
My dumb thoughts, in no particular order:
Is it really necessary to have implants put a damper on the opposite skill? If I'm slapping a rifle chip in my head, do I really need some -pc to balance that? Seems over-thought and under-applicable. In what scenario does a rifle/pistol spy pose any more threat than a pure pistol or pure rifle spy? Why do we bother putting enough thought into the negatives of implants that we end up putting -HC on a +RC or PC chip?
no. They were designed with the idea of providing a hefty bonus so that say a tank could use it to unlock his last PA. Other classes won't really need it. (what would a monk want with +12 STR?) This is negotiable though.Quote:
Aren't the tier4 stat boosters a little high on requirements?
WEP is a good point. I hadn't thought of that. acquisition of a target could be considered being linked to reflexes, so it is reasonable. T-C, however, is not.Quote:
Can we please just get rid of +endurance on implants? Seems like a total waste of points in most/all cases.
For example - in what scenario would anyone want to choose the proposed Exp. Reflex booster over the plain ol' Reflex booster? Options alone don't create diversity. Good options create diversity. Changing out +END for +WPL or +TC could make the Exp. Reflex booster a contender.
Nice idea and reasonable bonuses. I would, however, select a different name for the melee glove.Quote:
Isn't it time some attack gloves are introduced other than the Psi gloves? Don't we shoot our guns of swing our (stupid) melee with our hands? We added in a whole lot of implants for traders, why don't we just finish the marathon?
60 Machina Heavy Glove Str:60 Str:+2 HC:+15 T-C:+5
60 Machina Melee Dummy Who Needs to Go Play Some Other MMO Glove Str:60 Str:+2 TRA:+5 MC:+15
60 Machina Rifle Glove Dex:60 Dex:+2 RC:+15 T-C:+5
60 Machina Pistol Glove Dex:60 Dex:+2 PC:+15 T-C:+5
60 Machina Droner Butthole Glove Dex:60 Dex:+2 TRA:+5 RCL:+15
I've never used a holovest to begin with. Yet as far as the dex-backbones are concerned, the idea is to use them to get more agility and speed - as counterpart to the CON-implants, which slow you down but increase your survivability. I deliberately designed this so that those who would want TRA would have to use strength backbones - because that is their purpose after all.Quote:
No dex backbone could be paired with a holovest unless you wanted to walk around with only a pack of tictacs in your quickbelt. There is no reason to run a holovest setup with any other backbone other than +dex... because there is currently no reason for any spy to rock a +Str backbone. Couple that with the fact that rifles are significantly heavier than pistols and you are basically building a backbone series that will only ever be able to be used by pistol spies.
I am well aware that this is a rather fundamental change, but I hope you see my point. You can get the dex you want elsewhere - from the Tier 4 dex chip for example.The incentive you speak of is precisely what I was aiming for with the dex-backbones. To make the player think "What do I want? and how do I get it?"Quote:
Part of the blind area here is that armor has its own revamp going and everything is so synergistic, it is difficult to make a decision without knowing what the next step in the process will actually look like.
/edit:
Weren't backbones in NC1 +1/3/5 primary stat? Would love to see that scaling back for many reasons, but that depends on the armor system update that is potentially on the horizon. Back in NC1 putting a Str booster 2 into your spy meant you could rock some Inquisition armor which was freaking game changing. There is no incentive with the current armor system (or backbone system for that matter) to attempt to reach for higher levels of Str as a spy, or a PE.
I am currently working my monk towards hybrid, too. and with the bonuses I put there it should be possible to at least use both types of modules - depending on the armor revamp you mentioned. Neither would be extremely powerful over the other, but both should be able to be used. if my math is off we would have to lower some penalties there.Quote:
/edit2:
Dismayed a bit at the complete lack of hybrid monk chips. No one wants the return of the hybrid nuker/healer/tanker, but many people out there want to see room for some hyb monks again.
OK, I just want to make something clear:
I want feed-back and community discussion. However, I am not going to enter into direct, personal (and especially not private) discussion. It has marred community relations in the past, with accusations of nepotism and undue influence directed at members of both sides.
Also, specifics are something of a moot point. Generalisations are a better starting point, which we can then tweak in light of testing.
I too would like a discussion - because it would mean that more people are putting some thought into this. And I have at no point asked for a private discussion with you. I have asked for your opinion on this matter - through IRC and PMs - yes, but I never said you shouldn't post your opinion here, did I? The reason is that there was precious little feedback coming from the community at that time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bragi
As for specifics versus generalizations: I think my suggestion although detailed is fairly generalized as the steps of increasing attributes and stats are largely the same across the implants, so the pattern is fairly easy to see.
I do hope though, that more of the community will join us here and start a discussion about what they think of the proposed ideas.
i already said what i think should be done, i think the values of implants can only be set ingame while testing what are possible setups...
about the idea of the dex backbones... i can only say; no no no... probably for pve, but not for pvp, a spy is the most fragilst shit atm, and then you want to decrease transport even more? -trans = more points in trans = even lower piercing ;)
also some implants are pretty broken... rd for exampe... probably it should also give implant... ;) /ironie off
Bragi can we get a list of the values and implants that are now on the testserver?