apu dmg

the apu dmg atm is kinda strange. a pe takes bit less dmg than a tank for example, maybe because the pe can have 99 resist psi and the tank just 5. well if you just nerf the pe and spy apu resist now the apus would do way to much dmg. my idea would be to remove maybe the reist psi and introduce lower dmg with open aim on apu. before the patch it was 60%. you could maybe find a balancing that the apu would do less dmg with open aim than now but with the loss of resist psi they would do actually do more dmg with closed aim than before. i kinda fear op fights will be again like the clan with the most apus win. i mean even the people with bad aim do almost 100% dmg atm with fully open aim. so clans with less people will be overrun by apus just because they do lots of dmg with open aim and can hit around every corner. also an apu could profit when there is a higher runspeed :D since it would be harder to hit them and they have an easier time to do dmg since they hit with open aim.

Hi,
i can only agree with him. There is nothing more to be said.

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Spot on regarding open aim... definately needs a drastic damage % reduction. Anyone can jump on an APU currently and fight to a decent standard with almost 0 practice. PSI resist doesn't need to be removed that would mess things up too much for spy's. Simple reduction of the open aim damage will solve the issues.

Does PSI resist do anything? If I remember correctly it did nothing back in the day.

I believe its still useless.

resist psi helps against apu. that s why my pe gets unbuffed less dmg from a apu than my tank, and buffed it s around the same dmg.

APU literally needs to have its damage cut in half at the bare minimum.

You lose by default if you aren't an APU and you square up with someone who is. I have 1080 hp as a Tank and can get killed in 5-6 hits from Holy Frost.

hmm either you need to change your con setup on your tank or you just think that it just takes 5-6 hits because you got surprised of the high freq of the frost. my tank takes around 85 dmg per hit so it should take more than 10 hits to kill him. but yeah since the ionic cannon is the only useful hc weapon a tank can t rly defend himself against apu especially when there is more than one. he kills you fast during your reload. apu needs to do some damage but he is too easy to play since he doesn t need to aim. i was pissed off after the patch with the apu buff because i can t rly fight several people anymore when they all log on apu. they all just hit also around corners. atm fights are more like you need more people and then play apu with ppu using true sight.

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Originally Posted by brand

hmm either you need to change your con setup on your tank or you just think that it just takes 5-6 hits because you got surprised of the high freq of the frost. my tank takes around 85 dmg per hit so it should take more than 10 hits to kill him. but yeah since the ionic cannon is the only useful hc weapon a tank can t rly defend himself against apu especially when there is more than one. he kills you fast during your reload. apu needs to do some damage but he is too easy to play since he doesn t need to aim. i was pissed off after the patch with the apu buff because i can t rly fight several people anymore when they all log on apu. they all just hit also around corners. atm fights are more like you need more people and then play apu with ppu using true sight.

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Ah that must be why it looks like it hits so hard; didn't know it could be fired around corners and had such a high RoF.

My point still stands though, just like yours. APU needs a big nerf.

APUs do a lot of damage very quickly. They excell in short bursty fights. They have poor resists and limited regen however... If you get the drop on one or play a game of cat and mouse, you'll win. As far as aiming goes... You still need to aim, just not worry so much about reticle closure. On the other hand, if you miss, you fizzle. If we want to make reticles work like they do for other classes, we should remove fizzling.


Anyway, this entire discussion is a moot point and entirely academic. The next balance patch is revamping armor, implants, and weapons. We'll have to reevaluate the current state of things then.

spys also don t have better resists and can t stealth with that true sight. and you don t need to aim when you do 90% dmg with fully opened aim. just sucks to fight against 3 of them alone. they all hit and you can t rly get away. and yeah now we have to wait some years for the next patch and it might suck as well.

Spys do have better resists... They have a higher resist cap and can hit it with nanite tools. They also stealth and only PPUs have truesight. Apus still need to aim, they have a reticule after all, what they don't need to do is keep that reticule on you at all times. In return, they have tiny range, the lowest resist cap in the game, and a huge weakness to force. Also yes, if you go 1v3 against the glass cannon class, you die. That's not surprising.

if i m not mistaken resist cap was on apu 82%, spy 82%, pe 84%, tank 88% and ppu 92% or something like that. well yeah apus have a reticule but they don t need to wait till it s closed. afterall they always hit when their aim is open and it can t go under 90% dmg. and i wouldn t call their range tiny. sure they have to get closer to snipers but still in a 1 on 1 or teamfights their range is fine. but like the balancing is atm op fights are going more to the direction in just having more numbers than your enemy clan and then just go apu. you don t rly go glass cannon anymore since there is no more runspeed in game. you just use more resist chips on every class, mabye except tank. rly prefered the balancing before the new balancing patches, before the runspeedcap came out. at least the balancing between spy and tank was okay. the only good thing is the change of the dissi and ionic pistol atm

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Originally Posted by brand

if i m not mistaken resist cap was on apu 82%, spy 82%, pe 84%, tank 88% and ppu 92% or something like that. well yeah apus have a reticule but they don t need to wait till it s closed. afterall they always hit when their aim is open and it can t go under 90% dmg. and i wouldn t call their range tiny. sure they have to get closer to snipers but still in a 1 on 1 or teamfights their range is fine. but like the balancing is atm op fights are going more to the direction in just having more numbers than your enemy clan and then just go apu. you don t rly go glass cannon anymore since there is no more runspeed in game. you just use more resist chips on every class, mabye except tank. rly prefered the balancing before the new balancing patches, before the runspeedcap came out. at least the balancing between spy and tank was okay. the only good thing is the change of the dissi and ionic pistol atm

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You are extremely mistaken. Here are the caps:

APU/Hybrid: 75%
Spy: 80 %
PE: 84%
Tank: 88%
PPU: 92%

This means that a tank hitting 88 percent resist during an op fight to a particular damage type is going to be taking less than half of the damage that an APU would take (12%/25%).

Again, APUs are a glass cannon. If you have a number advantage over your opponent, having lots of glass cannons is ALWAYS the way to go. It just makes sense, if you have the stronger side, why not push your advantage by bringing more DPS to the table. This isn't a phenomenon unique to neocron.

You do still have glass cannons, just look at the resist caps. If you're worried about monks, bring combat PEs with lots of psi resist or spec your tanks heavily into fire and energy.

Edit: I should also clarify, when I say APUs have a reticle, I mean they have a thing they need to put over your hitbox. Yes, they don't need to wait for it to close (so they don't have to constantly track you), but they still have to have their reticle over you while pulling the trigger. Because of the fizzle mechanic, if you screw this up it sucks. APU takes a different sort of aim (it's really bad to miss shots) because of this. Honestly, give them a real reticle but take away fizzling and that would be fine and dandy. Anyway, as I said before, all of the weapons, armor, and implants have already been changed. We need to figure out balance with respect to those changes, so this is all totally moot.

well i also didn t exactly say to reduce the dmg of the apu. just to make it harder for him to do his dmg. tanks in op fight can be ignored atm. their dmg sucks. and i rly prefered nc wihtout people playing apu instead of going to zergo monkocron. apu can still run around croners and shoot they jusst need some runspeed to survive. and they still can hit people pretty easy while chasing but when their aim is open just go for less dmg.

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Originally Posted by brand

well i also didn t exactly say to reduce the dmg of the apu. just to make it harder for him to do his dmg. tanks in op fight can be ignored atm. their dmg sucks. and i rly prefered nc wihtout people playing apu instead of going to zergo monkocron. apu can still run around croners and shoot they jusst need some runspeed to survive. and they still can hit people pretty easy while chasing but when their aim is open just go for less dmg.

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I would have no issue with increasing the retical dmg falloff in exchange for no more fizzling. I think it would make APU a little tougher to play in PVP and much less annoying all the time. Perhaps 40 percent damage totally open and 75 percent damage after half a second with the rest taking longer.