[What if?]The level gap was closed

Continuing in a set of threads (that other people should feel free to start too) of slightly "out there" idea throwing. There's no implicit suggestion here that this is what should be done, just that it's an interesting way Neocron could be changed, while still being Neocron. The idea is thrown out for discussion and input, to see if there is anything worthwhile

So right now in Neocron, the idea is that weapon damage scales linearly off TL. So that TL115 disrupter should be 55 times as powerful as the TL2 Lazar rifle (ignoring HT, rare etc effects). The TL90 heal should be 30 times as strong as the TL3 one. Etc.
In fact, all items below TL10 are supposedly "balanced" as if they were TL10, so it isn't quite as extreme. What this means though, is that if weapon damage were all that mattered, a capped player is 10-12 times stronger than a new one. But the capped player also gets better armour, sheilds, con and so on as well. So they end up even more so than that - 50 times stronger in net, perhaps.

Maybe the game would be better if this was made a bit more even. It could still be "linear", but say, we balance TL1 stuff like it was TL101, and TL115 stuff like it was TL215 (and redo mobs etc accordingly). So a capped player got stuff that was only twice as good as a new player, was only 4 or 5 times more effective over all.

Hopefully, this would mean less of a severe divide between "useful" capped people, and anyone still levelling. This closing of a divide would apply across the board of course - in cash rewards and the like too (in fact, that needs doing anyway as I'll hopefully get around to in an economy post one day).

There is a downside to this of course. Smaller gaps, means progression feels slower, less clear. When you go from a TL20 to a TL40 gun, you're getting something twice as good now. With a closing of the gap, that gets a lot less, a lot less noticeable. There's a risk that levelling becomes "get to mainskill 50, go to highest level areas to farm until cap" which is kinda dull (although you could argue that happens now with Regants).

So yeah, thoughts?

Sorting the imp/armour system would go a long way to making uncapped more useful.

You could also retail a linear scale without having a huge difference between new runners and capped, just make the gradient lower and the starting point higher.

Instead of this:

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...ps6f638d06.jpg

Like this:

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...pscf4ea774.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dribble Joy

You could also retail a linear scale without having a huge difference between new runners and capped, just make the gradient lower and the starting point higher.

Instead of this:

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...ps6f638d06.jpg

Like this:

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...pscf4ea774.jpg

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's what I was trying to suggest, just incoherently it seems.

I understood it.

Truthfully it looks as though you're trying to make it more like an FPS with a small amount of progression than an actual RPG. This is my first thought. Now personally I am all in favour of that - or at least if there was some way to implement this without losing the current feel of things for those who love neocron as it is.

Take Guild Wars for example (been a while since i played it so bear with me) there you had the "levelling" rpg style game. This was good. Then you had the max level instant capped pvp type game. This was also pretty good.

It worked well but I always felt like I wanted to blend the two together. I think your idea would do that quite succinctly but I think the best way to do that would be to give an XP bonus to those without the LE in.

The guys and girls who want to level that tiny bit faster (to get the guns and kit that they need to pvp successfully) will be able to do this and hopefully with weapon balancing (following the ways you yourself and others here have suggested) will naturally follow this.

I think if people want to keep their le's in they can carry on exploring and collecting trophies and all of those things but if they want to experience the other side of the game then they can do this also and hopefully at a much earlier time. I am not sure if there is a way for them to experience lower level pvp in an open world environment but I think that as has been discussed, if there is one this is probably the simplest and easiest given the conditions.


I love the ideas, dont get me wrong. I am all for a good debate. I love how active the community is in suggesting things like this and i would love to see what the devs announce in their monthly feedback thing. I can see the point you guys are trying to make and it comes back to the same endgame in my mind. We just have different ways of going about it I guess.

Keep up the good work!

I kinda of think it would kill a lot of the feeling of progression that you get in this game, also I find that in games like this where there is a clear feeling of progression it gives you something to work towards.
Like in my case I currently have one mile stone I'm aiming for while leveling my character and that is to be able to use and get him a 'First Love' because I always enjoyed the look, feel and sounds of that weapon.

I really feel that, before we can even look at suggestions like you have suggested, we need to get the weapon damage balanced properly across the board, along with mob attack damage being balanced.

Once these are sorted/balanced then we could have a look at things like raising the damage of the low end TL weapons and changing the gradient.

Yup!

I actually made a post like this, somewhere, but I can't remember where. I'm not even 100% convinced of my own post (it's essentially the exact same concept), because it would be a dramatic change, and you have to be very careful with dramatic changes.

I'd said something like: Maybe the lowest TL weapon could be exactly 40% as good as the highest TL version of that same weapon. So, example's sake, let's say me and you have 1000 hp, and again, for example's sake, Desperado (highest street rifle) deals 400 damage per shot (lol) to us. Three hits then, would kill either of us. So, Lazar Rifle (lowest street rifle) should be exactly 40% as strong as the Desperado - which means, it does 160 damage per shot. Seven shots needed to kill either of us. Not so huge of a difference!! This would mean there would be a higher chance of anyone wanting to participate in PvP!

Now, the problem of "the awesome feeling of character advancement" being dulled down. I'll reiterate something I've suggested in that post: Damage to MOBS could stay EXACTLY the same as it is now. This way, we still get the awesome feeling of big jumps in damage, when going from one gun to the next gun.

And one more thing. It may then seem that it wouldn't even be as worth it to: try and get slots in weapons (for slightly higher damage), or even use slightly better weapons compared to others. To that I say; if you could increase your damage per shot from 14% of your enemy's health per hit, to 15%, wouldn't you?

Anyway, having said all this, I'm still not sure about the idea (again, because it is so dramatic), but it's worth talking about.

rather not, and if, only on a new server. but i welcome cmasters OP as a valuable part of our ongoing discussion: "how can we make NCs endgame more exciting, bring back more varity in playstyles and get more players to participate in PvP voluntarily".

i still believe that minimizing boni for woc-, epic- rare- and tc-weapons would do the trick.

tbh i would rather support slower levelling and less xp per damage inflicted if we had more content ingame than we do now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Torg

rather not, and if, only on a new server. but i welcome cmasters OP as a valuable part of our ongoing discussion: "how can we make NCs endgame more exciting, bring back more varity in playstyles and get more players to participate in PvP voluntarily".

i still believe that minimizing boni for woc-, epic- rare- and tc-weapons would do the trick.

tbh i would rather support slower levelling and less xp per damage inflicted if we had more content ingame than we do now.

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what kind of content are you talking about specifically here?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ivan Eres

what kind of content are you talking about specifically here?

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truckloads of quests. new caves, mobs, challenges. reworked zones. customizable avatars. future, tho.

One aspect of NC that is clearly lacking, but highly present in other MMOs, is the emphasis on missions/quests for xp. In NC grinding mobs is almost the only way to level as a combat char and the mission xp for tradeskillers is hopeless.

Missions would not only provide an alternate route, but also help to give an impression of the setting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dribble Joy

One aspect of NC that is clearly lacking, but highly present in other MMOs, is the emphasis on missions/quests for xp. In NC grinding mobs is almost the only way to level as a combat char and the mission xp for tradeskillers is hopeless.

Missions would not only provide an alternate route, but also help to give an impression of the setting.

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Regarding this, since I agree, I'll point to William's JobCenter thread

Agreed tbh as we discussed in the linked thread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dribble Joy

One aspect of NC that is clearly lacking, but highly present in other MMOs, is the emphasis on missions/quests for xp. In NC grinding mobs is almost the only way to level as a combat char and the mission xp for tradeskillers is hopeless.

Missions would not only provide an alternate route, but also help to give an impression of the setting.

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Although the above is steering this thread a little off topic i have to say i agree too. The only danger is that the quests or missions MUST not be stale and boring. Also gonna need to be proof read for spelling errors. I'm willing to do that ;) if required. If they are carefully structured then it could make them a lot of fun. Added to which i would love to see more done with some of the missions for the anti city factions. The temp hard res whatever ress missions are really pretty lame. something needs to be done to make it more fitting with the lore but thats something for Triv and who ever is responsible for content to discuss.


So back on the main topic. Im not sure how i feel about the idea if i am totally honest. I think its really good in one way but i just dont know if it would change neocron too much. then again i say to myself well nc is ALL about pvp for me and the more that this can bring is surely a good thing.

I worry if i sit on the fence too long i will get splinters in my arse.... :) I am tentatively in support of it but i think a big change to it all would require a lot of testing first and it would need to be tested thoroughly top to bottom. 0/2 to 60.