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damage seems less and the max ammo is switched from 20 to 12. (ammo thing wasn't listed hence the "stealth", although they mention guns ammo size was normalized to non rare ammo clip size, which is weird since afaik there is no normal non rare xbow, correct me if i'm wrong)
love the patch servers, love the effort they're putting into things but....i thought the point was to help buff pistols/rifles? i was expecting that, not a nerf.
Where on earth did you get the idea that this was meant to address Pistol issues? It's part of a multi-part balance project, so right now we only have a small part of the whole picture. The xbow ammo was likely normalized to another type of gun (handgun possibly? Does it serve a similar role to other types of pistols?)
Right now it seems like my APU is vastly more powerful due to the frequency changes to the spells, but again anything we see here is only a part of it.
For further discussion, I'd recommend you put this in the Patch discussion thread instead of making new threads on this subject. You can find it here
All the weapons have (in the majority) been brought into line with each other with respect to a function of TL (inter-weapon-class balance will be on-going).
DPM is calculated to include reloading times, so in some respects the clip size is somewhat cosmetic.
Overall PvP and PvE damage has also been altered, so a direct comparison with pre-patch perfomance is not necessarily relevant.
Besides, the xbow was hardly underpowered beforehand.
it wasn't underpowered before? crap dps before, crap dps now, impossible to win vs dev or cs except under very extreme circumstances.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bragi
i suppose i'll hang back and wait for a few more balance patches then.
EDIT: The more i think on this, the more i can't believe a gm thought jugg xbow was considered good prepatch 186. This scares me, not in a good way.
Jugg xbow was pretty much the pinnacle of what a pistol PE can use, sans drugging up constantly. And you know what? spies, apu's, tanks, everyone would steamroll a pistol pe.
unfuckingbelievable.
the part where pistols have been broken in terms of damage for a long time now. the fact that pistols are receiving a 15% damage boost over HC. the fact that the damage is being normalized by their TL.Quote:
Originally Posted by FireWarrior
yeah. and this is the balancing patch project part that addresses the parts im concerned with.Quote:
Originally Posted by FireWarrior
no. it's nothing like other pistols.(basically a sniper pistol) AFAIK, there is no non rare version of the weapon.Quote:
Originally Posted by FireWarrior
no.Quote:
Originally Posted by FireWarrior
least you have a Wisdom of Ceres item, APU still doesn't have one..
true. apu's have been fucked for a long, long time. i would say they're about as fucked as PE's. tanks and (to a lesser extent) spies have been king, and seem to still be. at least apu's can LOM to a PPU and actually be useful in a OP battle, PE's....well....Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascension
You're looking at the whole picture rather than relative to other pistols. The whole PE vs Tank situation has a lot more going on than just the weapons. We rebalanced the weapons relative to each other. We've barely started looking at implants/PA, let alone armour, PE Psi and the rest of the game that goes into inter-class balance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Artricia.
Yes, it was the best pistol for a PE; better than the Judge, the BoH, the Slasher and the Backup, all within a few TLs of the Xbow. THAT is what this latest change was for.Quote:
EDIT: The more i think on this, the more i can't believe a gm thought jugg xbow was considered good prepatch 186. This scares me, not in a good way.
Jugg xbow was pretty much the pinnacle of what a pistol PE can use, sans drugging up constantly. And you know what? spies, apu's, tanks, everyone would steamroll a pistol pe.
unfuckingbelievable.
P.S.
<-- Not a GM.
Xbow was definitely not underpowered before..Quote:
Originally Posted by Artricia.
BHG was better, sure.. And Freeman was maybe a little better (but would make for pretty bad setups for PE's because of the high Dex req).
And Xbow performance against Dev/CS tanks was more of a Dev/CS/tank-resist/PE-as-a-class problem, than it was a Xbow problem.
Im personally not returning until non-PA PE's are viable again (armor/implant balancing), so I cant speak of the new current balancing, but pre-balancing the Xbow was BY FAR the best weapon for a PE (not counting the IAR before the nerf).
I can't give a time-frame, but......Quote:
Originally Posted by Dropout
;)
Nah I know you cant. Which is why I dont bother asking ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bragi
But god damn Im looking forward to it! :D
low level ppu spells for PE do nothing, literally nothing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MayhemMichael
PEs are going to remain fundamentally broken until something is done to address their defense or offense. They can't do enough or mitigate enough damage to be real contenders.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Divide
I wouldn't so much call PE's broken, they're just weaker than other classes but if you can play well you can still compete... you'd just probably do way better playing a tank or a spy...
IMO PE's should have 3 standard brain implant slots and 1 PE brain implant slot, give this 1 implant some strong stats and use that as an easy escape to add 'balance'. I'm no programmer but I'd imagine adding a bandage to cover up a problem is much easier than healing the original wound.
EDIT: Completely unrelated.... grenade launchers should be considered rifles... just saying.
There's already PE-specific equipment: PE PA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerocytes
yea, like HC PE PA, but no MC PE PA..... WTF.
no one uses HC PE.
PA should in no way be neccessary though.
Band-aids are generally bad long term and tend to do more harm than good with regards to the stability of the game and patches thereafter. NC suffered that for so many years and is part of the problem the current team are having to muddle through.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerocytes
Exactly, ounce of prevention > pound of cure and all.
Although in this case it'd be a ton of prevention > 20 tons of cure for this game