balance leveling interruptions

new players, not just new to nc but low lvl toons need to have their space to level and cap out in order to pvp. lets not think about this in terms of now days where the community is small but lets say like it was in nc 1 and beginning of nc 2 through the start of DoY.

NC shouldnt be about getting ganked while leveling as it happens too often even now days. after the start of doy i vowed not to take le out untill cap and rares are obtained, i made an exception recently with my first tank (amazing i havent tried tank before) to experiment to see if gankers are still out there and ofc they are, it has been hard to lvl without le even with the increase in xp because i get killed wherever i go.

its just a big resistor to what i could be doing at cap not to mention you loose items and have to go rebuy stuff when they hack your belt... So i think this basically comes down to being able to reach cap faster so i can pvp.

* I think doing away with le and prevent pvp untill all skills are caped may be the way to go

whats the point of having low lvl toons without le any way? they are absolutely no match for anyone a few ranks higher anyway and in many cases even someone of lower rank can have more levels in their main stats and less in other less important stats from doing something like repairing a rhino thus allowing them to equip higher lvl weapons at lower ranks.

* Or prevent pvp in certain known leveling zones and disable le in other rare parts farming zones and op's

this one would be a much tougher decision to do, it would be hard to decide which zones to make pvp or nonpvp like areas where you have epic objectives and rare part farming mobs like the garbage dump.


Basically anywhere you have a situation where a dominate player can take advantage of a less dominate player theres gonna be issues. In closing; although the community is awsome there are and may always be a large part that who put a big resistor to the games desirability. The dev team has been doing a great job of keeping everything togeather and implementing new features and rethinking others.


Side note; in the future when theres a new release for a new Neocron id like to see tru-aim fps kinda like counterstrike or blacklight retribution instead of the target box's.

Your problem seems to be that you re unclanned/playing alone. If you had a clan, your guys should take care of the "gankers". You can also always ask on faction channel or hire the City Mercs (17th squad) to take care of any guys harassing you.

The problem with being able to level until you re capped without restrictions is, that it would make the game a lot more boring.

not everyone in nc wants to be in a clan and not every clan has the time to helps their m8's getting ganked especially now days when theres only between 22-115 players on at any given time (mostly 22-80). Even back in the old days sure clan m8s didnt always help out because they were doing their own stuff but when they did it worked out here and there mosltly though it was short lived, gankers would bring friends then it turned out to be a clan war where trying to lvl and still the ganking continued so thats really not a solution. Mostly it was rl friends or my rl brother who helped anyway.

Ive been playing solo since i came back a year or two after DoY got evacuated. lol last night i was lvling a and a group of folks pk me a few times telling me to join them and they leave me alone, they said they were tired of ppl saying they join but dont so they pk everyone unless they join.

honestly I thought really it was cool clan aspect if they were rollplaying because it fit in perfectly with the whole NC vibe but they werent rollplay they were just being "you know whats" and its definitely not fun getting ganked a constantly when your trying to lvl, it just makes it next to impossible to level a toon.

If ganking didnt occure as much i think there would be twice as many people still playing. not to mention some noobs are talked into taking their le out early, back in the old days it wasnt an issue, just get max si your rank drops and put it back in but now si doesnt effect si as much as it did so no going back when that happens.

Ive been around long enough and i never had a caped non led toon.

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The problem with being able to level until you re capped without restrictions is, that it would make the game a lot more boring.

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a lot more boring for who? I cant speak for anyone but myself but preventing someone from leveling is not entertainment by seeking them out and killing them time and time again is not or griefing them for that matter. It detures someone from wanting to level their non led toon.

* so heres another suggestion, non led toons can not get killed by runners in leveling areas more than once every hour or two, give them some time to level before they get ganked again. I think that is a fair aspect to have

you got ganked and you came and made a thread about it.

I recognise your comments about the putting LE back in at max si and all that from the help channel. Are you Dyne Wallace?

This just sounds like a massive moan about being pked. It's really tough to see what the constructive parts of your post are.

You say there are only 115 players. There are about that many zones in nc... So if every player was in 5 or 6 popular zones that still gives you a few dozen to go to where you can level alone.

If you level at crp or regants or one of the other popular spots you will get ganked. Nc is a PvP game.

If your clan doesn't help you they are a shit clan. Join a good one.

If you can't find any better zones to level in then it's not the game at fault buddy... It's more likely to be you.

I levelled all of my toons in regants and some other places too and I got killed a few times but I fought back plenty too. Just suck it up. It happens.

Failing that you can always keep the le in. There are two easy solutions to your problem.

If you click my sig below you can potentially find a better clan than you had before. If you can PvP we might be able to give you a trial perhaps.

The only thing I'd change is, give us the chance to put an LE back in (with restrictions, once a month or so).

For the Rest: no. Just no.

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Originally Posted by William Antrim

Nc is a PvP game.

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No. It just isn't. NC is a ganking game. Its all about that. If PvP was its main focus it was all about consistency and fairness.
NC is all about who has the better gear and more people to gank the others harder.
An even fight must be arranged and does not come natural. I will never be a true PvP game if that doesn't come natural.
Which MMORPGs will only grant in instanced, regulated battlegrounds.

stone, i hate to say that, but: keep that LE in if you dont want to be killed. yes, theres a small EXP malus above level 30, but that wont keep you from reaching cap. another advice comes to us from the past. in NC1 we all plugged that LE out on our way from MC5 to the starter app. while there was less mindless ganking than today you still could get killed, unless you choose to hunt on your own. if you stay in places where no one else goes to, you will not be shot down without reason by some bored 12-year-old. try warbots and hovers in the mountain area, go to the steppes or the northern canyons, check unused caves (there are plenty). just not cycrow, regants, MB. good luck.

I levelled my main toon (tank) without my le and was ganked only once or twice. Didnt make a thread about it.
Just suck it up and look for another location to level. I like that tbh..would be boring playing with le. I love neocrons atmosphere and i like the exciment of pvp contacts! Even if its yourself gettin hunted..learn to observe your surroundings and have an escape route ready or be ready to fight for your life. Currently levellin a monk, without le ofc. Ive been ganked 0 times..around rank40 now.

Reason why im saying this is because i think there might be something youre doing wrong if youre getting killed and killed over and over again.

@torg, 12-year olds? Dont mean to sound rude but if youre older than most of the playerbase it doesnt mean you have right to call gankers 12year olds..i doubt there are 12 year olds playing neocron. Some might be younger than 18 for sure..but 12? Cmon!

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Originally Posted by Juppe

...it doesnt mean you have right to call gankers 12year olds..

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yes, i do. we all know the difference between PvP (fights between PvP enabled toons) and shooting weaker for no reason but an easy kill. The latter is for 12-year-olds.

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Originally Posted by Drachenpaladin

I will never be a true PvP game if that doesn't come natural.

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Supposed to be "IT will never be..." as in the game, Neocron.

You realize torg that is exact same thing as saying all players wearing LE are scared little girls. We all know neocron isnt meant to be played LEd till wocced and suddenly you are an pvper or whatever.
gankers are more roleplaying neocron than the LEd playerbase holdin hands with enemy factions.
I think this went little off topic tho.

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Originally Posted by Juppe

gankers are more roleplaying neocron than the LEd playerbase holdin hands with enemy factions.

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That is a big heap of horse shit. If killing babies in the cradle is in order then so is defection and betrayal.

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Originally Posted by Juppe

I think this went little off topic tho.

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yea, right, you and i have different opinions on that. just to make it more clear: do you think the OP starter should keep that LE in until wocced (no...) or unplug it and get along with being killed occasionally for no reason (i think we agree on RP-based kills)? why is that? and since you've been asking: yes, i believe players ganking weaker chars (unable to fight back) "are scared little girls".

edit: Whatever, I'll just ignore him...

This topic has already gone to hell.

If you sit here on the forums complaining about getting ganked in PvE. Great.
You're reacting exactly how those people want you to react. Keep crying about it.
Cry about it until you find the strength to pick up a weapon to hunt them down, kill them, and take their dog tag as your trophy.

Torg, you clearly can't read very well, surprising that you as a politician skim over the facts. *hardly*
He stated that if you are assuming that all PKers are "12yr olds", it is the equivalent to say that all LE'd players are "scared little girls".

This topic really needs to stop cropping up - effectively you end up with thorn-in-foot veterans trying to dictate how others should or should not be conducting themselves within a cyber punk game world. That's right folks, you're expecting order in a post-apocalyptic revelry-fueled world.

I don't care how anyone plays this game, play this game how you see fit as long as it's within the rules.
Some people want to play the PK'er, others want to play the care bear constructor, then there are those who are soldiers dedicated to their clans. I personally play all of these roles based on which character I'm playing at the time.

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Originally Posted by Pestilence

The only thing I'd change is, give us the chance to put an LE back in (with restrictions, once a month or so).

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Yes, I second that.

It should be possible to put the LE back in whenever the player makes the decision for a peaceful and pacifistic life again in Neocron.

What people do not understand is that this move would actually strengthen the PvP in Neocron.

The reason is that all players could simply try out PvP whenever they want with a chance to go back if it does not suit them.

Right now it is a one-way street. There is no way back.

Another reason for me is that I want to be able to guide new LE'd players through Neocron and the wastes and to the MB and anywhere without having to look around every corner for gankers and get killed while giving new players valuable help and resources.

Yes I like to PvP even if I lack training atm and the imbalance is terrifying but there are times when it does not fit the game for me.

I like the danger of having to be careful when walking around the city and the wastes but not if I want to show new players the game and its mechanics.

Of course it should be made sure that this feature is not exploitable too much. For example, putting the LE in should take 30 minutes or longer (60?), while the player cannot move at all, so that it is not an easy decision. The interval for it could also be limited, like Pestilence suggested above (once a month).

I am sorry to hijack this thread somehow but it's a feature that I am thinking about for a long time now.

Regards

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Originally Posted by Ivan Eres

Of course it should be made sure that this feature is not exploitable too much. For example, putting the LE in should take 30 minutes or longer (60?), while the player cannot move at all, so that it is not an easy decision. The interval for it could also be limited, like Pestilence suggested above (once a month).

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I think the only limitation should be that the LE can only be put back in as long as you stay within a Safe Sector. (If you GR or leave the safe sector it cancels the process)

Otherwise you could have an entire clan turn up to an outpost fight LE'd and just pull their LEs for a fight.
It would be pretty meaningless, but exploitable nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by Cursed Shadow

Otherwise you could have an entire clan turn up to an outpost fight LE'd and just pull their LEs for a fight.
It would be pretty meaningless, but exploitable nonetheless.

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Of course, if it doesn't work then we don't need it. However, today's players are not as hardcore as they were ten years ago. Maybe that's why a feature like this would help maybe.

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Originally Posted by Ivan Eres

Of course, if it doesn't work then we don't need it. However, today's players are not as hardcore as they were ten years ago. Maybe that's why a feature like this would help maybe.

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I think the biggest exploit of all, and would need careful consideration.
Only players with positive soul light should be able to re-implant their Law Enforcer.

This would allow people to start a beef, kill members of my clan and then put their LE in and lough into my face while farming safely in my outpost.

Its already bad enough how it is.. People farm with le toon and see you then logon unled fighter toon to attack you from behind when low health. Need to make it even more cowardly system? Or more exploitable..? I would remove LE completely tbh

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Originally Posted by Juppe

I would remove LE completely tbh

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i'd be fine with removing the LE from the game, but only on fac symp and SL rules of 2002: once you got into red SL, there was no way to go back into green. so you had to be careful not to dogfight in newb areas (P2) or AoE in caves. deal?

and cursed shadow: i was joking on that little girls theme, and you know that.

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Originally Posted by Torg

i'd be fine with removing the LE from the game, but only on fac symp and SL rules of 2002: once you got into red SL, there was no way to go back into green. so you had to be careful not to dogfight in newb areas (P2) or AoE in caves. deal?
.

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If only it would be so simple..
I wish we could make that decision torg.

Dont change the LE rules. The players are bad enough as it is. The amount of people abusing the mechanics of the LE compared with the amount of people who ACTUALLY genuinely need the LE and using it as it was intended is phenomenal.


The current version of that ruleset is about as fair and balanced as it can be made to be in this world.

There are easily 3 good constructive solutions to the OPs problem in this thread. If he doesnt find any of them to his satisfaction then sorry but thats just hard lines. He either needs to fight back or he needs to learn to suck it up. One or the other.

Do not start a witch hunt on changing the LE rules just because one guy came to the forum to bitch about being killed in a game with guns in it.

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Originally Posted by Torg

yes, i do. we all know the difference between PvP (fights between PvP enabled toons) and shooting weaker for no reason but an easy kill. The latter is for 12-year-olds.

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I hate to break it to you... but it's an MMORPG(/fps), there'll always be someone stronger than you. Neocron does actually a good job of allowing people to fight back compared to most mmorpgs.