Dear Runners,
please discuss anything related to Deployment #2 in this thread.
Sincereley,
Your Neocron Support Team
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Dear Runners,
please discuss anything related to Deployment #2 in this thread.
Sincereley,
Your Neocron Support Team
I'll have to test it, but that DPM curve is looking quite steep.
It lends itself to overpowering the BHG, AK, WoC Launcher, Disruptor and possibly the TL115 drones.
I would have expected the damage to start to flatten out around TL110, but the curve does not represent this...
As I say though, the above is speculation, the proof is in the pudding.
Edit: *add rant about how WoC weapons should always do less damage than Rare, Hard-earned weapons here*
That's the reason why it is steeper now. The focus is first of all to get the end-game PvP right. Everything else will be balanced around the end-game PvP, so expect the slope (the first derivative) to be fixed/equalized once we are happy with the end-game DPM curve. Apart from that, keep in mind that nothing is fixed yet. We have the freedom to change stuff in case it does not fit, so: braaaiiiinnnzzzz uhm, I mean feeeeedddbaackkk ;)Quote:
We realised the DPM for high level weapons was too low compared to weapons with lower Techlevel. Our initial goal was it to make the lower Techlevel weapons more useful ( > TL75) in PvP and we want to keep to this idea. However there are more factors correlating with damage than just damage factor and frequency, causing an unexpected outcome: lower TL weapons being more useful than higher TL weapons. Therefore we adjust the DPM-gain per techlevel again.
I have tried a few duels, I need to do further testing though. Stamina is a bit more manageable, It's not that the current Melee system bothers me that much, but it's more appreciable to play melee without constantly spam your belt of stam boosters. Always a welcome change. As to the damage, I'm not sure how I'm testing this, I did 1v1 duels, without PPU shields, I'll try some later on with PPU shields, melee against heavy.
N
Do you have any Endurance specced?
Contact me if youre interested in a duel with your melee vs my hc.
So I tried to duel a heavy combat user, it was bad. Well, stamina-wise I'm doing ok, but the DPM is way too low at the moment, even in 1v1 unbuffed combat. I'm not sure we are expected to do these test also in 1v1 situations with PPU shields, but neither the APU or me as M-C could outdamage the healing ticks.
Slap me on the ass and call me Judy but the DPM is a bit low except for some weapon
Are you sure that you are optimizing your points correctly?
Many people do not realize that Endurance, Athletics and Weapon Lore are key parts of Melee Combat.
Would be nice to know what damage you deal (on average) to a 0 resistance, no armor equipped tank.
(For each Melee Rare)
Just for you reference:
Category: Melee Combat (M-C)
Lowtech Melee Combat:
Damage (100): Base 10 %, M-C 60 %, WEP 10 %, ATL 20 %
Frequency (100): Base 10 %, M-C 30 %, WEP 40 %, END 20 %
Handling (100): Base 10 %, M-C 20 %, WEP 40 %, AGL 30 %
Hightech Melee Combat:
Damage (100): Base 10 %, M-C 60 %, WEP 10 %, ATL 20 %
Frequency (100): Base 20 %, M-C 20 %, WEP 20 %, T-C 20 %, END 20 %
Handling (110): Base 20 %, M-C 20 %, WEP 20 %, T-C 20 %, AGL 30 %
Would be nice to know your current (with imps) points in:
WEP:
M-C:
ATL:
END:
T-C:
AGL:
We would also like you to test pure damage per hit across all versions of a weapon type above TL75. Eg. Cursed Soul vs TL84 Plasma Cannon, Blade of Ceres vs Tai-Chi Double-Edged, etc. This will give us a better understanding of how the updated curve is working.
As in the last thread, please post:
Weapon Damage %
Weapon Frequency
Weapon TL
Per hit instant damage
There should be a special NPC on Sparta on which to do these tests.
A melee weapon of a given TL should do the same DPM as a rifle, pistol or heavy weapon of the same TL.
As melee is dependent on sub-skills in a different manner than the other weapon types, it may be trickier to get this into practice given the implant system and tank PA.
We would rather fix that first than simply buff melee from the outset.
Damage on the whole is too high. Nerf PPU Buffs accordingly - gives resists some actual value and makes fights buffed vs non-buffed an actual fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neallys
Hello everybody.
I tested some weapons on Sparta and the result was that the damage of weapons with a lower techlevel is greater than the damage of the rare weapon.
The curve of the deployment #2 don't match the settings of the damage on Sparta. You can see this in the following screenshots. The live tests with the weapons on other players with the weapons gave the same results as the values in the weapon info list. OK the interface language is german but I think you will understand everything ;)
First of all the APU single shot spells.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cc5ff7butgol4wm/APU-BEAMS.jpg
As you can see the Holy Lightning does more damage as the Holy Energy Beam. This is what the curve represent. But the other spells like the Holy Fire Apocalypse and Holy Frostration do less damage as the highest non-rare spells. There must be something wrong.
Next we have the APU-Barrels. The damage values of the barrels look fine and there is no mismatch with the curve (see the next picture)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sm1i3xeqr3...PU-BARRELS.jpg
The next class is the Tank. At the moment i had only the time to test the single shot hightech Cannons and the common area weapons.
The following picture includes the Cursed Soul vs Tangent Plasma Cannon, Ravager vs Tangent Plasma Wave and the Creed vs Storm Laser
https://www.dropbox.com/s/f9f3j2kox0...gle_Target.jpg
As you can see all values of the Tangent Plasma Cannon are higher than the Cursed Soul. Greater rate of fire, range and damage. So if you calculate the dpm the Tangent Plasma Cannon will do more damage as the Cursed Soul.
The next weapon is the Ravager. The Ravager does a litte bit less damage and has a less range as the Tangent Plasma Wave but the rate of fire is a litte bit higher. If you calculate the dpm of both weapons the values are very equal.
The next weapon is the Creed and the Storm Laser. As yo can see all values of the Storm Laser are higher as the values of the Creed. The only advantage of the Creed is the rate of fire. The damage of the Storm Laser is about 62 points higher as of the Creed. The calculated dpm value of the Storm Laser is also higher as of the Creed......
Now the last weapons - the Tank AOE Hightech Weapons.
To make it short: all rare weapons (Doom Beamer, Malediction and Moonstriker) do less damage as the highest non rare weapons. You can see this in the following picture.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/96lucoucf9v5veo/TANK-AOE.jpg
The conclusion of this test is that there is a point in the curve where the line drop down. Maybe it is a problem with the skill. To get a weapon with a smaller techlevel capp is easier as a weapon with a higher techlevel. This could be the reason why the non rare weapons do more damage as the rare weapons.
Massi
We are aware that there is a serious problem. This took us by surprise as much as anyone.
We are trying to find out what the issue is, but as some weapon types are being affected more than others, this will not be simple (yay for NC code ;)).
We will keep you posted.
This was the case with Deployment #1. We aimed for the DPM/TL rework in Deployment #2 to overcome this effect, but it seems to not to have happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by Massaker
Edit:
I've had an idea.
Could you test each weapon with the MINIMUM sub-skill requirements? Also alter you other sub-skills that affect a weapons damage performance by a proportional amount. So if a weapon needs 20% less RC/HC/etc. less than it's rare equivalent, reduce your WEP as well (and similar sub-skills for melee and APU).
This hopefully should still produce the same results, but if not, we may get a better idea of where the problem lies.
no revert loom in sparta ???
my character is 44 and i want to test some pistol on sparta but the revert loom vendor have nothing in stock.
Click the altar in neoconstruct for a free warp to the ceres temple and talk to "SUPER HARD MISSION GUY".Quote:
no revert loom in sparta ???
my character is 44 and i want to test some pistol on sparta but the revert loom vendor have nothing in stock.
Kill the rat (6/6) he spawns --> BING :)
solved , someone explain me this in sparta :) thanks baldur.
Where are the damage logs to back up your conclusions?Quote:
Originally Posted by Massaker
The numbers you see in those Info screens mean nothing. There is no damage cap. How much damage do these weapons do per shot to a Capped Tank, wearing no armor, with 0 in all resists.
That will give you much more meaningful data.
I shot on a tank with no resists and no armor and it was the same result. the non rares of a tank and apu do more damage than the rares... I can retry the test but alone its very boring and takes to much time. If you want to help with the tests write me a pm or direct me
Thank you, was just trying to get more facts :P
Seems like, as Bragi described, there are still lingering issues then.
If you've tested this and these are the results, then there must be some issues.
Out of interest, is the APU damage good? haven't tested that personally.
i have tested some pistol on mutant cyclops at the MB.
spy : PC:180 , TC:133 , WEP:125
tl 75 , tangent epic pistol : good pistol in all the way , with is double beam i found it very powerfull ( 1 clip +1shoot for taking down a cyclop)
tl 105 ,beam of hell : well after the tangent epic and is double beam the beam of hell seem not so powerfull ( 13 shoot for taking down a cyclop ). maybe the beam of hell need the same mod of fire than the tt epic and less damage or a light boost to dammage.
tl 92 , pulse laser : good weapon , less than a clip per cyclop
tl 103 , slasher : i see the difference with the tl 92 , more dammage , less ammo used per cyclop ( mostly one or 2 shoot less)
for the info in the stat panel , all the guns made more dammage then the TL up , less freq /aiming/ dammage percent .
one things intrigue me: the range:
then the tl up the range grow , always ( like 336 meter for the tl92 and 366meter for the tl 103 ).
i hope this info be usefull , give some return if you want more test on high tech pistol.
I think the TT epic definitely needs to come under scrutiny. Even on the retail server the TT cannon can outdamage a creed (tested by opening fire on a mob and the same time and seeing who gets the loot). Maybe the 2 shots makes it more powerful? Maybe add 2 shots to other beam weapons?
An other example are the plasma pistols and rifles.
Anyplasma rifle or plasma pistol has a burst of 2 shots and one burst of the plasma cannon has 4 shots. A tank has a little bit more stamina than a spy and can handle the stamina consumption more efficient than a spy. A spy must use a stamina booster after one clip and a tank can shot 2 clip without a stamina booster. I think it would be nice to modify the burst of rifles and pistols to a 3 shot or 4 shot burst to make the plasma rifles and pistols more viable.
What do you think?
^ Agree. First love is practically useless.
Not to mention the damage benefit gained from 4-shot bursts in a fast-paced fight where you may only have reticle lock for a fraction of a second. The two-shot burst is a major detriment to that scenario, and as mentioned above is a significant stamina drain on a class with the lowest attainable stamina pool in the game. My First Love (which is appropriately named) in NC1 had a burst of 4 plasma globs. Since my first experience with the FL in 2.2, I have missed that mechanic. The damage output has been reduced per hit, and the number of hits per burst have gone down. Double-whammy to what was viewed as a balanced weapon throughout NC1.Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRamjet
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Deployment #2.1 has been released! Please tell us whether this fixes the problem of low TL weapons outdamaging higher TL ones.
==================================
Hi Jabal,Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabal
Thank you for your input. Can you do the same tests again after the latest deployment (#2.1) update? You could also test this further in Jeriko Fortress at the Shooting Range. :-)
i go for making some more test ( with dammage per hit on the dummies ect ) but JERIKO FORTRESS IS GR CLOSED .....thanks guy to close gr in a test serer.
i think i made an extend test with each type of pistol at 3 different tl ( rare , the better tl and the second ) and post it here saturday or sunday.
EDIT :
comming to jeriko and testing some gun , after that 2 smart pvper coming and kill me and one another player "it's a pvp test here" ...
well , if it's going that way all the time i think he take a week for testing all the pistol ...
You do not have to travel via Genrep to Jeriko.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabal
There is a warpterminal in the Neocronstruct to Jeriko Fortress (use the warpterminal in Plaza 1 to Neocronstruct first)
someone give me the tips on sparta , one more time :)
the problem is if the others player only think about killing ... it's mostly impossible to test .
Opps - guilty as charged! Sorry forgot to open the GR after taking Jeriko on Sparta. Will open it when I can get home later (Or if any other Phoenix members are reading this and can get onto Sparta open it please!)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabal
Or use the warpterminal as Baldur sugguests.
solution found with one another player !
I made an LE player and use them for the testing.