Make Scopes relevant.

Hey there,

As I stopped using my Silent Hunter frequently I asked myself why...
Its damage is quite high, but it has some decent disadvantages:

- While scoped, you cannot see your healthbar, or magazine status.
- While scoped you can't see that you are being hit by other players (no recognizable impact)
- Scoping needs a significant amount of time.
- Without scoping you cannot shoot because your reticle is too big.
- While scoped your mouse sensitivity is very slow.
- The bullet needs some time to reach the enemy.
- Scoping darkens your screen around the edges.
- Your big range (should be above 1000 metres) is not relevant at all because world details won't get displayed after like 500 metres (I do not know exactly). So you cannot see a player or mob which is that far away. That means that a disruptor (range of 600 metres) is as effective as (or even more effective than) a Silent Hunter. Using a scope doesn't change that.

Problem in Neocron is: Range doesn't matter at all. The world isn't designed for that. Using a Silent Hunter makes currently only sense because of its high damage, but other than that is has no real benefit.

The same problem is related to the scope modification for weapons. That is entirely useless:

- Zoom is not strong enough.
- You have to hit the Numpad Button (you can bind this to another key of course...) which is bad regarding usability.
- Zooming in third person doesn't work but makes your mouse sensitivity slower.
- It is a complete waste of a slot in your weapon...

So what I suggest is the following (I like lists!):

+ Make a new Scope-Crosshair! The existing one is awful!
+ You should be able to see your healthbar and maybe the magazine status. We are living in the FUTURE!
+ You should be able to see farer with an attached scope than a guy using normal weapons.
+ Reduce Aiming Speed a lot when scoped (it is hard enough to follow...)
+ When attaching a scope to a weapon, the range should increase.
+ Zooming with an attached scoped should be easier to do. Define an extra button or mechanic for it.
+ When you get hit while using your scope you should see that you get hit. (make blood effect on the borders of your screen)

I completely agree on all terms. I would just like to make one comment;

For me, zooming in third person automatically zooms me in through a 1st person perspective, so that works. But that's with the Ronin.

I also agree with OP,.
Also like SilentEye when I'm in 3rd person it zooms me in fine, that's with a Silent Hunter

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SilentEye

For me, zooming in third person automatically zooms me in through a 1st person perspective, so that works. But that's with the Ronin.

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Yes you are right for built in weapons with default scopes.
But if you manually attach a scope to a weapon you are able to zoom in third person (which brings no benefit though)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nabbl

Yes you are right for built in weapons with default scopes.
But if you manually attach a scope to a weapon you are able to zoom in third person (which brings no benefit though)

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And it changes your Handling to practically negative values so that the simple task of switching directions is nigh impossible. It should either have some kind of zoom in 3rd person, or it should have no effect on 3rd person at all.

And agreed on the other points. At the very least it should offer data about yourself to know if you are being damaged.

* increased range doesn't make sense, maybe handling though,
* zooming should be almost instant,
* i don't think a added health bar has anything to do with living in the future unless that also includes, that you feel no pain. it's just normal that you need some kind of visual aid to determine your health

Very detailed and well thought out.

Some really great ideas; Scopes really do need a revamp.

Yes it should be instant and we should see all of our stats the same as a droner.

what nabbl says.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nabbl

- While scoped, you cannot see your healthbar, or magazine status.
- Scoping needs a significant amount of time.
- Without scoping you cannot shoot because your reticle is too big.
- While scoped your mouse sensitivity is very slow.
- The bullet needs some time to reach the enemy.

+ You should be able to see your healthbar and maybe the magazine status. We are living in the FUTURE!
+ Reduce Aiming Speed a lot when scoped (it is hard enough to follow...)

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While I agree with the rest of your points, I disagree with the quoted ones, especially when the other ones are changes, like how far you can see with a scope. Sniper rifles do a very high damage and are suitable for what they are intened. Changing the aiming speed for example and/or the time to scope brings them in regions where they're viable for close combat actions. And they should never be viable for this.

Sniper scopes in my opinion should be treated separately to scopes on other weapons. I would like to see the HUD changes Nabbl suggested (ammo/health/damage taken).

The discussion about scopes on weapons for me however is 2 very distinctly different issues albeit having the same name.

Assault rifle scopes I would like to see beefed up by making the target have a bigger hit box. This would represent the zoom (works in 3rd and 1st person) for said rifle and would instantly give a new dimension to weapon load outs. 5 slot weapons would be slightly more valuable due to the extra option and generally I hope the implimentation of this change would be a simple one.

I think the scope should work like the red dot sight for this too (num pad on and off) but I would also like to see a hud mechanism telling you when the scope/red dot sight are active. I realise you can see the laser when your weapon is drawn but I think it would be a nice visual to have it there too.

I would also like an ejection button on my weapon but thats another thing for another day.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by William Antrim

Sniper scopes in my opinion should be treated separately to scopes on other weapons. I would like to see the HUD changes Nabbl suggested (ammo/health/damage taken).

The discussion about scopes on weapons for me however is 2 very distinctly different issues albeit having the same name.

Assault rifle scopes I would like to see beefed up by making the target have a bigger hit box. This would represent the zoom (works in 3rd and 1st person) for said rifle and would instantly give a new dimension to weapon load outs. 5 slot weapons would be slightly more valuable due to the extra option and generally I hope the implimentation of this change would be a simple one.

I think the scope should work like the red dot sight for this too (num pad on and off) but I would also like to see a hud mechanism telling you when the scope/red dot sight are active. I realise you can see the laser when your weapon is drawn but I think it would be a nice visual to have it there too.

I would also like an ejection button on my weapon but thats another thing for another day.

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while i like the idea of the scope giving you a larger hit box, i think that's way too powerful. you'd need to change other stats for that to be properly balanced. scopes should only be viable on weapons with low frequency or low recoil. recoil doesn't seem to be in this game at all. at least i've never really had any significant recoil effect i'd need to correct with actual mouse movement.
you could counter the effect by significantly reducing speed.

I do not see what scopes have to do with recoil. Noone I know aims down the sight when shooting multiple rounds off at any more than one every 2 seconds.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by William Antrim

I do not see what scopes have to do with recoil. Noone I know aims down the sight when shooting multiple rounds off at any more than one every 2 seconds.

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i don't quite understand that. you should be able to get a larger hit box if you activate the scope, but you shouldn't be zoomed (like when using the scope on a sniper), right? what stops you from having a high shot frequency and having the scope enabled to get the larger hit box?

Ok I have more time now. Let me try to clarify this for you a little better.


To me the scope issue is two separate issues.

One for single shot slow-firing rifles - the Sniper rifles etc.

The other for fast firing assault rifles.

Attempting to keep a modicum of realism in a world full of plasma guns and the like there will be a myriad of different scope types in all shapes and sizes in the real world. Look at BF3 for example.

So to use the generic term scope for this particular item could mean any one of these different sorts. However not wanting to turn NC in to a FPS we assume one single item will generically carry out the same function across the board. It is easier than having 20 odd different scopes.

The scope helps you to aim. It makes aiming easier.

However with an assault rifle/plasma rifle/pulse laser etc etc we would not spend all day staring down the barrel from some far off grassy knoll to shoot the target. It is more of a "aim down the sight and blat off a few rounds before moving" type of item.

In terms of nc it would probably interface within the RPOS in some way anyway if it worked and so you wouldnt necessarily need to aim down the sight as you do in the modern age. This is the 26th century after all.

So to that end I interpret the scope as another piece of sensory equipment which helps you aim from within the RPOS.

Therefore it would not have the same type of sight as the sniper rifle because the role it satisfies is more of the infantry assault trooper support than the reconnaissance style role of the sniper. The infantry guy on the ground needs a different sort of aiming mechanism and this would be (in my opinion) more properly supported by having a larger hitbox on the RPOS.

Does that make more sense?

i don't think this bonus should apply unless you stand still. running and getting a bonus seems op.

I accept that but I respectfully disagree. If you stand still in PvP in nc you're dead. Essentially the scope then would stay useless.

Bump cause this post need more views. The scope really need improvement

+1 for the basic idea but just do not overstep the mark. nothing worse than a must have mod. (for non sniper weapons)

it's kinda ridiculous when ppl start to use the scope in 3rd person for close combat to gain an aim bonus/larger hitbox. But to have an option to increase range for pistols would be nice.