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anyone playing early nc1 will remember the massive aoe based fights cause a defending team had to run from another op. The constant underground whoring and aoe-ing annoys a lot of people, the aoe kills you in case of a long sync and the defending team has a distinct advantage of underground access.
Now i know it's daring but what about a test patch for a few weeks where genreps and undergrounds are unlocked so we can see if that kind of op wars would actually work nowadays.
A barrier placed around the UG to have some cover from an aoe/sync might be a good idea.this way you make a choice of using aoe or placing fighters there.using the barrier to clip would have to be considered.
yes .. I don't like the underground too.
I have to agree. I never liked the underground addition.
Much preferred it when we had to run from a nearby GR in a huge group. You're all forced to fight to the death that way (as it should be) and it gives tactics other than zone-whoring a chance to surface and thrive.
100% agree.
Yep, I also think that running was a lot more fun. And please remove the hacknet activation, too. Three hacks and done!
now what do you do if there is no open gr near? wanna run all the way to soliko from el farid or desert racetrack?
Actually removing the UG is a good idea. Im not sure how our tradeskillling would work. To think only about a better fight Im going to agree here. now lets hope the le carebear crowd doesn't ruin another great suggestion with roleplay. Im so sick of being told what is best for the game by le players. the game is dead most of the time. we need changes and suggestions like this to happen.
the UG GR was meant to make defending easier. if you dont like it, dont use it.
Look...if you don't like killing babies just don't do it. Other people killing babies is ok though. lololol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Torg
That wasn't the only thing that's being pointed out about the UG. People use it to zone out when they get low on health because they can't be chased into the UG (aka zone-whoring). And I don't see how going to the UG to defend is easier when literally every clan besides RSC likes to aoe the entrance so that we die while in sync.Quote:
Originally Posted by Torg
Exactly this (except the bit about every team AoE'ing the UG. We have never done that at a single fight).Quote:
Originally Posted by gostly
My point was, it's treated as a zoneline and turns OP fighting into a Plaza 2 fight. Not the all out fight to the death it once was.
Yea sorry didn't mean to say everyone. It's funny we fight so many neutral/allied clans, hardly ever fight actual enemy faction clans. So if your clan doesn't do that then I applaud you guys cause it ruins it for everyone. AoE'ing the entrance of the UG just means "we don't want a fight, we just want the OP"...Quote:
Originally Posted by L0KI
Hmm is it really that bad? That is going to make it harder to find a clan to join.. lol..Quote:
Originally Posted by gostly
I mean, they know who they are(garbage clans, so it's just a tactic they use because it makes them feel better). But the ones that want a fight won't AoE the UG. I really didn't mean to say everyone, but yeah there are clans that like to do it. I guess it's fun for them to shoot aoe/barrel players who are standing still because they're syncing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dropout
It's not that bad - the cock just has a stick up his arse.
Either remove it or put a timer on it before you can go back down again
HA...one of the clans that approves of doing it! lolQuote:
Originally Posted by DigestiveBiscui
Ah fair enough. Had me scared there! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by gostly
Winning a fight with AOE is like sleeping with your sister. Technically you can do it but you feel cheap and dirty after.
To some degree Id find satisfaction on both. But the real point should be a clean fight. Not sync killing.Quote:
Originally Posted by William Antrim
I really like this idea, my opinion on the subject is you make the hacks longer reset between each level this way clans have time to respond, gr and lose SI and get there. Get rid of rules on GR so that you can regroup at any OP, the current locked GR's doesn't benefit anyone and locks away part of the map.
That's about it, do all that and get us back to the single fight op fights we used to have instead of these 10 deaths monsters.
Locked grs need to go. I said this before in plenty of other threads. Open the map so you dont know where the enemy is or is coming from. Send out scouts etc to different grs. let the spies run recon/interference missions like the old days or even sniping when the clans are forming to move to what ever op is being fought for.
Much better than GR in and wait to get lamed with aoe.
Hell if i was copping a load of aoe from some people doing this i wouldnt even bother coming up. let em take the op and come down and then fight them. Nice. tightly packed in an underground. Huge clusterfuck of people shooting each other. No one having a clue whos shooting who.
Sounds just like plaza 2 :)
So without the sarcasm im in favour of some changes to this to make things more free flowing. If anyone cares search the thread about locked grs by me and see all the experts that smacked it down saying locking grs is a good idea.
I agree to the timer idea for going back into underground.
We often fight against a clan who comes up from the underground, hit the hackterm for the 60 seconds timer and sync back into underground... This is very annoying and WE are the bad ones :)
Well the only thing i see causing trouble with removing the underground lock is tradeskillers getting in trouble. What you could do is put a lock so people can tradeskill behind that and it only opens for clan. like an appartment. But since it's doors opening and closing like an appartment, it'll not be any use trying to get out of a fight because the enemy can just run in with you.
But that would effectively give tradeskill characters in the clan a good place to hide from the dangers of the wastes.
So:
1. remove genrep lock
2. add a clan door opener to the rear doors of the underground at labs and factories.
3. remove underground genrep
Result: op wars with less zonewhoring and more defend / attack the fortress kinda style fights.
IF the tradeskillers want to hide they have their LEs. If they dont have an LE in then they can hire some bodyguards for protection. Lets get some RP back in the game.
Thats the same thing i've always said, but apparently the wasted slot is a too big of a minus for them cause noone can be arsed keeping it in on a tradeskiller. But yeah my sympathies exactly!Quote:
Originally Posted by William Antrim
I forgot what it was like without Undergrounds. This is a really good thread. This would make Opwars very short compared to how long they were in NC1 (Anyone remember Tezla or Soliko fights, team AOE to knock down the turret defense could last an hour).
Removal of Underground would enhance op fighting and this definitely something that should be looked into by the devs when the time is right for them.
Great thread.
yeah the turrets fucked things up especially those stunlock ones, but with the right balacing you could have turrets help out in defense but not make things unequal. And it'd be a lot more fun actually defending the structure instead of how its done now
I would leave the underground in and if it really must be considered then remove the gr. However I think its still better that the defending clan gets to defend properly from the underground. A suggestion to alter this would be disable the lock at the hack of a certain layer perhaps.
I definitely would be in agreement with altering the gr rules for the controlling clans. They have too much power. I'm gonna link the other thread I posted so you can see what was written because this needs to be discussed and now finally I think it will be in a suitable manner.
why not just allow a pop up menu, like the one on the car to appear when you GR to an op that allows you to select the UG or the op GR both with no SI for owners of the op? This would split the attacking force if they wanted to aoe both, as most op wars are around 6-9 people it would solve some of the issue I think?
As for the RSC whine, I think its petty to start thrashing around the idea of garbage clans, people are not knocking RSC right now even though they:
- had several players banned for cheating
- used to intentionally clip in op wars when it was possible
- have ninjaed a huge number of ops due to 90% of American players being in one clan (whats with that?) sometimes there are 10ish RSC on when all the euro clans have 2 or 3 and then you guys complain there is no one to fight, spread the American love to the other clans, It never used to be like that, I miss my American buddies!
anyways, please don't try and act high and mighty. Every clan has good and bad people in my opinion; I like some guys in RSC and some I don't, to condemn multiple clans of people you don't know as garbage is just ridiculous.
TL;dr If there is a gameplay mechanic/feature available to help you win a fight, at some point or another people are going to use it, whether its clipping, AoEing the UG, zone whoring, scouting with LE'd players, defending in hacknet, zone crashing, ppu zerging etc, people will do it unless it is hard coded out.
This is a brainport thread, not a boo boo whine whine about evil RSC thread. So kindly either contribute positively or fuck off thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by wargolem