Replace Citycom implementation with a webbrowser

Printable View

09-12-12, 21:20
baracoder

Replace Citycom implementation with a webbrowser

The current CityCom System is nice. I remember dropping my chin as I saw it the first time years ago. But it is out of date and lacks some flexibility. There are many sections like the News, Stockx or Forums which are unused others like the Missions need some rework. I can imagine that the logic of it is hardcoded and change of any button or text field would require a Client Patch which makes implementing new features and changes difficult.

I think reimplementing the CityCom as a browser would solve those problems. There are ready to use browser engines like webkit. Changes to the UI could be implemented at server side adding features would be much easier. The look and feed of Neocron could be preserved using style sheets. Maybe even this forum could replace the ingame forum :D
09-12-12, 21:54
Torg

like eve online?
09-12-12, 21:57
Izeo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torg

like eve online?

I wouldn't like this. I prefer the existing HUD-type buttons. However, the unused stuff, if not able to be removed, could maybe at least have text that says "Currently unavailable"? (instead of a blank area)
09-12-12, 23:38
Ascension

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izeo

I wouldn't like this. I prefer the existing HUD-type buttons. However, the unused stuff, if not able to be removed, could maybe at least have text that says "Currently unavailable"? (instead of a blank area)

Really, you prefer the HUD-type buttons?

The UI is clunky and ugly.
10-12-12, 02:02
baracoder

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torg

like eve online?

I've only played eve once. But as far as I remember it was just a generic browser. What I mean is to use a website as citycom content instead of a static ui.

But access to the real www from the ingame terminal would be nice too. RP wise it would give a reason to hang around and use a terminal.

If access to terminals is restricted when it is in use ("item already in use" like crates or doors) it would even make sense to buy more terminals for clan apartments or use different terminals then the nearest one.
10-12-12, 03:23
Biglines

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izeo

I wouldn't like this. I prefer the existing HUD-type buttons. However, the unused stuff, if not able to be removed, could maybe at least have text that says "Currently unavailable"? (instead of a blank area)

making it as a website wouldn't mean having to make it look odd, u can still design the site to look like the hud. it would be a lot more responsive.
10-12-12, 13:22
Izeo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biglines

making it as a website wouldn't mean having to make it look odd, u can still design the site to look like the hud. it would be a lot more responsive.

Just my opinion on this one - I'd favor like the current system over an ingame browser. (and I'd dislike it even more if it let you actually browse the real web, lol).

I think there are a couple ways to improve it though, (been a couple recent ideas)

I actually think it works great, it's just the mission screen is slow sometimes because of load time + unused missions. However, it was never really longer than ~20 seconds for me, so that doesn't bother me too much anyway.

One reason I don't want it scrapped/replaced is because we would never be able to use it again - only the browser page which looks similar. So, I'd be against flat out removing something like that. Take the NC1 models - lots of people liked the old ones, but at least they are still in the game for us to see and remember on many NPCs. If the CityCom interface was replaced though, it's kinda gone forever.
10-12-12, 20:37
hatmankh

I'm for changing it to a browser if it makes the citycom easier to use and quicker.

Izeo, I don't understand the attachment you have to the citycom interface, interfaces aren't like character models, I can understand preferring the old models there but interfaces are mostly just a mechanical thing, designed for accessibility, ease of use and to display information in the best way possible and if its the style of it you like so much, that can be kept exactly the same in a browser version, it'd just work better. Just seems weird you'd object to a change like that, hell if done well, it could be indistinguishable from the current citycom interface, the only difference would be it'd work alot faster and be more reliable.

If we weren't told about the change, we wouldn't even know it had happened, we'd just think the server is working better.
10-12-12, 20:50
William Antrim

Quote:

Originally Posted by hatmankh

If we weren't told about the change, we wouldn't even know it had happened, we'd just think the server is working better.

I'm sold on the idea!
11-12-12, 04:40
Izeo

Quote:

Originally Posted by baracoder

If access to terminals is restricted when it is in use ("item already in use" like crates or doors) it would even make sense to buy more terminals for clan apartments or use different terminals then the nearest one.

I like this part.

Quote:

Originally Posted by baracoder

But access to the real www from the ingame terminal would be nice too. RP wise it would give a reason to hang around and use a terminal.

I hate this part. I don't want to be able to check facebook or gmail from inside Neocron. Neocron's world is supposed to be a fantasy world, separate from the real world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hatmankh

Izeo, I don't understand the attachment you have to the citycom interface, interfaces aren't like character models, I can understand preferring the old models there but interfaces are mostly just a mechanical thing, designed for accessibility, ease of use and to display information in the best way possible and if its the style of it you like so much, that can be kept exactly the same in a browser version, it'd just work better. Just seems weird you'd object to a change like that, hell if done well, it could be indistinguishable from the current citycom interface, the only difference would be it'd work alot faster and be more reliable.

If we weren't told about the change, we wouldn't even know it had happened, we'd just think the server is working better.

It's "weird" that I wouldn't like the idea? That was a bit unfair. I never said it was weird for disagreeing with me, or that anyone are overly attached to their own suggestion, right?

OK, yes, it'd be piss-easy to make a "Neocron style" web page, with green buttons and maybe even the same font. But there is no way you can convince me that it would look/feel/sound/function the same. No way. It would look and feel different, and you'd probably even be able to tell that it is indeed an embedded webpage if you have any more attention to detail than a doorknob, and I would be genuinely SAD to see the existing CityCom system wiped.

What were even the reasons for wanting to change it? Two things have been listed:
1.) Some parts aren't used anymore. Definitely not a reason to wipe it and replace it with a web page.
2.) Sometimes missions can take 10, 15, 20 seconds to roll. Whoa! So you want to wipe the entire thing??

And seriously, being able to access the real internet would actually bother me, a lot.

-

There have been other suggestions (even some of my own) for fixing the mission system in the brainport pretty recently, and the fact that some of the CityCom sections are unused (StockX) is literally not a reason to overhaul it. Who cares. Improve it, sure!!, but please don't replace it with a webpage interface. I feel like there are more people that would be sad to see it replaced with a webpage interface, but that there are just not enough players that read and post on the forum..
11-12-12, 09:04
Grogor

You asked for backup and here it is.
I would be sad if the CityCom vanishes. I love the CityCom and I do want it to be a bit clumsy.
You ever realised what Neocron is? Do you read the mission texts, look at world design? The world is build up by visionaries and mad scientists. The world is in many stages high tech, but with the only claim to work. Some of the weapons appear to be build up on duct tape. Some seem improvised. Quite a few rare weapons have a history in which they malfunctioned or didn't work as intended. They do have engineers, but the real work is done by highly gifted kids (especially in the hacking sector...). And we take the role of a delivery boy. Often enough you're adressed with Chummer, that's what we are. So having a CityCom that does work is fine, getting comfort on using it: not. It just doesn't feel right.
I agree, there is room for improvement, but not too much please.
There is no comfort for delivery boys.

That reminds me on Judge Dredd:
The Judge's standard-issue helmet and body armor. Yours, when you graduate.
Lawgiver-2 standard-issue sidearm, with 20 interchangeable rounds and voice-activated round system.
[...]
Yours, IF you graduate.
Lawmaster, with rapid-firing cannons and a range of 500 kilometers.
Yours... if you can ever get it to work.
11-12-12, 17:24
Forget My Name

In the end, if making this change improves game play, and essentially makes it that no one would ever notice the change except for the game play improvement, then there is no logical reason not to do it.

Sign me up.
12-12-12, 00:01
hatmankh

I think the reason for the suggestion of an embedded browser instead of improving the current citycom is that believe it or not it might actually be far easier to do than trying to improve the current citycom.

Obviously I haven't looked at the code and I'm not a coder so I wouldn't be able to tell you how good/bad it is even if I had looked at it but if the difficulties we have with every patch are anything to go by, making changes to neocron is not easy and often causes issues in areas you'd never expect.
12-12-12, 05:04
Izeo

Fair point. It might be difficult to change the code, but it's equally possible it might not be so bad. I'd give diving into the code of existing CityCom a shot if I was able to (to improve the mission screen or remove a dead section). Funnily, I'm a coder and working with UIs (mainly functional HUDs) is one of my favorite parts of coding games.
12-12-12, 05:11
Aeries

if it ain't broke don't fix it... if the CityCom was completely horrible and without use I'd say changing it would be okay, but how the CityCom is... right now, without any changes really is part of what Neocron is. This game has a freakin' completely in-game "operating system" which is a pretty rare thing. NO ONE puts that much detail into a game now and I guess to sum up what I think: cutting some uses out of it and putting it into a browser would be kind of like "watering it down."
12-12-12, 15:38
baracoder

Yes, my idea is based on pure speculation. Maybe the current system is easy to expand or change. I just got the feeling that it isn't.

And there are many other solutions. What i mean is just a dynamic scriptable system would make extending the citycom much easier. And a browser engine is a ready scriptable enviroment with many features.
12-12-12, 21:21
Ascension

I'm for the idea, though I feel it should be sandboxed, meaning you can only used specific pages, such as NC forums etc, and possibly designated fan sites. It may open up really interesting API's too!
12-12-12, 22:51
Mokoi

As (in theory) it would be possible to replicate the current system in a sandboxed browser without noticeable changes to look and feel whatsoever (in practice it is a metric tonne of work), I would suggest you leave out the technical implementation and focus on the features or changes in behavior/content you would like to see. "What" and "why"? We'll see about the "how?" side of things afterwards ;)
12-12-12, 23:22
Izeo

I once again ask you to reconsider, but this will be the last time since I know I've already annoyed everyone. It's a big part of what makes Neocron Neocron. Aside from physical world zones, the current CityCom is probably the only untouched/untainted chunk of content left from NC1. Can we consider other options aside from completely clean-slating it? I'll even say again, I'm a programmer, and UI functionality is probably my favorite thing to design/code.

I don't think improving mission acquiring time by 15 seconds and being able to visit THN in-game instead of alt-tabbing for 2 seconds will be worth the cost of the work put into a new CityCom, but more importantly I don't think it will be worth the cost of deleting a classic part of the game.

It does have kind of a sentimental value. :/
12-12-12, 23:45
Ascension

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izeo

I once again ask you to reconsider, but this will be the last time since I know I've already annoyed everyone. It's a big part of what makes Neocron Neocron. Aside from physical world zones, the current CityCom is probably the only untouched/untainted chunk of content left from NC1. Can we consider other options aside from completely clean-slating it? I'll even say again, I'm a programmer, and UI functionality is probably my favorite thing to design/code.

I don't think improving mission acquiring time by 15 seconds and being able to visit THN in-game instead of alt-tabbing for 2 seconds will be worth the cost of the work put into a new CityCom, but more importantly I don't think it will be worth the cost of deleting a classic part of the game.

It does have kind of a sentimental value. :/

The current citycom is clunky and horrible, a sandboxed browser would allow the GM's and possibly RP characters to inject dynamic content and relevant information into the game.

A lot of people have far less time to play with work, family etc as people have grown up with neocron, it would be great to be able to communicate in game without logging in.

There are a percentage of the community that use the forums on a regular bases, bringing the forums to the game would encourage more discussion and and more content, it may also encourage more bug reporting.