Reward Taking out Law Enforcer Chip (LE)

The theme has come up a lot in other threads, but as its a little hidden I think an extra thread is in order, if not merge it at your leisure.

I have thought a bit about the Law Enforcer, and come to the conclusion: At the moment, taking it out is PUNISHING you XP wise. Why? Because if you are just once killed while trying to level you loose time to get your imps in, to get back to the place you were, repair things, etc.

That can't happen if you let the LE inside your head.

The only incentive is the extra brainslot, which for most isn't worth it till late (I tend to take that thing out at 0/2 or close, because I think its right, but thats just stubborness).

So, if not for conviction, most people would agree I think, that if something has more negatives than positives, that you can easily see, then you will not do it.

But in the end taking LE out should be more attractive.
The solutions might be many, but the old ones in a new coat would do nicely.

1) You pay for your protection (Slight deduction from Money gained from Mobs)

2) If you take the LE out you get Risk Compensation XP wise. I mean you get MORE if you take it out. Not less if you let it stay in the head. The wording is important here, no punishing on that side for LE Users. Take the XP gain of now as basis, and those without LE get e.g. 20% more / faster.
This should naturally also be engraved on the Law Enforcer itself, that you will be rewarded with more XP for taking it out.
Coincidentally it also helps those that think they level to slow.

I am sure there are more ideas out there, also i am sure that the gap should not be too big, as playing LEd should still be an viable option - but it should be MORE attractive for many to take it out, not LESS attrative than with LE as it is at the moment.
And please remember: For the most parts, Players just randomly killing you is not the thing I said why letting LE in is more attractive right now.

MAKE TAKING LE OUT REWARDING, NOT PUNISHING PLEASE :angel:

Few random crap that comes to mind:

- 100% exp boost. Yes its a big increase to some but then again you can compare one class to another and get a 500% boost difference so not really that bad. The point is to encourage you to take it. 10% is like oh great I will save 10 min today of my 100 min leveling not really that special.
- 50-100% more credits. Really depends here though as far as I know you can't farm credits to much from killing mobs but if I'm wrong then maybe increasing this 100% will cause to many issues.
- Could do bonus like Genrep costs less because you don't have a locator chip in your head anymore and it does not have to be say specially tuned again when you spawn idk hehe.
- Higher costs at shops? Maybe because they know your being monitored by NCPD and their not as friendly to you because of that?

IDK I could go on forever. The problem is there is going be people pissed off with the idea. The problem is most these are going be farming alts I fear. Maybe some people play just to play PVP only I mean I sort of do but the idea of how this game is ending up becoming a game where now you need alts for just LE stuff so you can go farm is just crazy.

No Risk no game?

there was both xp and money loss of imho 25% back then in NC 1 (pre 2004) which was removed on request of the playerbase in imho late 02. i believe this situation hasnt changed, so you probably need to get along with it: use the LE or dont, its up to you.

the real problem here is "unconsented PvP", and all MMOs need to address it, and provide ways of playing without being attacked or killed. because a lot of ppl want to play this way.

let me make another suggestion, just as a thought experiment: lets keep Titan as it is and open a new server (i.e. "Sedna") without LE, but PvP switched off by default, unless you are member of a clan and in an official war with another clan, so those warring clans can kill each other. in any other case ppl cant attack/kill each other. pretty carebear, isnt it? would you want to leave it to the playerbase where to play? my bet is that there are more cooperative than competitive players in this retro-mmo, so Sedna would be more populated than Titan.

any of you remember Neptune? we already tried a PvP server, and it failed misereably. want to give it another try?

"unconsented PvP" ... This one cracked me up! :lol:

"I was full of shame when I had to use the GR to Typhoon Memorial having 40% SI. Everybody knew I got killed in the wastelands. I felt so dirty when the poker used his implant tool on me. His eyes were reflecting the disgust he felt. I knew: From that day on I will always be considered as 'broken goods'. No clan will ever accept me within their ranks again."
------------ (that's the shit coming to my mind when I saw your phrasing^^)---------------

Back to normal:
Neocron is a damn rough place to live. If you don't want PVP you have to keep your LE in. This is a great concession to everyone that only wants to PvE.
But if you want PvP you have to play by the rules and those are: DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE get better DIE DIE DIE DIE get even better DIE DIE WIN WIN DIE DIE know your enemies WIN WIN WIN DIE DIE DIE WIN...

There are plenty of safe zones, too.
Lots of PvP-Runner would call me a carebear because I don't like noob ganking and I am from Mars (the one slot RP-Server) but when there is one thing that does not fit in the noecron universe then it is a "consenting pvp-system".
As soon as you rip out the LE you consent to being in danger. I dislike the current "I kill everyone no matter what faction" mindset of the community too but what you ask for is even sadder.

The only way that I see to encourage people taking their LE out is to make PvP fun for most of the players.

For example, this would mean that players with the best store bought stuff and weapons should still be able to compete against a fully geared up char with mc5 imps, rares, and WOC.

For example, there could only be a 5% advantage for a player with all that special stuff compared to a "normal" guy.

Of course this is all debatable and it is only a suggestion.

But this way it would not be so important to have the best stuff and WOC before taking the LE out.

As it is today you don't stand any chance against a char with all the aforementioned stuff if you got only the store bought weapons and imps.

All that counts for PvP are rare weapons, mc5 imps, and WOC (especially for Spies and their AK47).

That's a pity, and that's the reason even the PvP people are keeping their LE in for ages, which is very bizarre.

Regards

Taking out the LE is consenting to PvP, in all it's forms. Ganking and griefing are a different matter. Forcing people who do not want to to take part in PvP is to make a non-consenting system.

I'm not sure what can be done to encourage LE removal without simply pandering to frag-kiddies.

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Originally Posted by Dribble Joy

I'm not sure what can be done to encourage LE removal without simply pandering to frag-kiddies.

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Yeah it is difficult because there is no perfect way on a mixed PvE / PvP server.

The only real solution would be two servers.

One PvE server where you can take out and put in the LE anytime you want (like the invitation to PvP in other MMOs).

And one PvP server where no LE exists and no safezones, so that PvP is possible everywhere.

However, dividing the population makes no sense at the moment, so we gotta find a way to get along on Titan. Maybe the subject "LE" isn't that important anyway, but more the overall PvP balance. It doesn't matter much if a few percent keep their LE in if the PvP people can take out their LE early so that more PvP is happening.

It was early 03 when the LE Malus got removed. maybe around the time i joined the forum but im not totally sure. i do remember having it in and seeing the fact that i could get easier access to weapons etc and then removing it at 0/2.

I would go with some kind of xp gain for removing it. pure and simple. dont punish people for keeping it in but reward them for taking it out. then the pvpers will take it out and take their lumps and the people who prefer pve will leave it in and lose nothing.

the grievers on here just cant stand people leveling up with LE it amazes me of the elaborate crazy stories they come up with to justify why people should have to take their le out

The problem is that there is no effective pvp at lower levels, the game simply isnt designed for it. When leveling you are not set up for pvp, you are not specced to kill other players (ie: armor, resists, weapons). The "hardcore" server was already tried and it failed miserably. Griefers want to grief, that is all there is to it. All this would do is encourage people to quit.

I don't see what the problem is with people having LE's in, some people in this game just simply want to kill everyone they see regardless of their level or the situation. These are the people that want everyone to remove their LE's. There is something to be said for the dangers of playing NC in a post apocalyptic setting, but unfortunately, for reasons stated above, it doesnt work.

I don't think changing the mechanics of the LE or more servers are necessary...

I think there are other factors that need looked at, that are reasons people don't take thier LE's out;

One is the borked mob damage and broken loot tables, which has pretty much everyone hunting one kind of mob(fire)..
By making other mobs viable, like Warbots dropping more techs, Decayed Horrors/Brutes more common, and having most mobs 80/80 and higher drop techs.
Also, sorting out which mobs are in certain zones(IE; Y reps randomly scattered across many zones, that used to be good hunting spots)...
This would allow people to spread out more across more zones

Another is, the sympathy rules for zones, this seems to have changed from what I remember.
I haven't payed alot of attention to it, but it seems that all zones in the wasteland have battlefield style rules, where you can kill friendlies/allies with little or no penalty, kind of like the way OP zones were...

I would even go as far as saying that we should go back to the NC 1 staring locations and return faction guards to outside their HQ's, and enable people to level up in their faction/alliance/city areas till around **/30(IE; FA leveling in the tech cores), but that would be even more off topic and the subject of another thread....

TL,DR version:

Fix it so people have more places to level, so they can spread out more and be somewhat safe..

Just give people a REASON to take out the le and they will. If the reward is there to go along with the cost of giving up all of that safety you will find it happens in droves.

Currently there is not that sort of reward for the bulletproof play-style the LE offers.

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Originally Posted by William Antrim

Currently there is not that sort of reward for the bulletproof play-style the LE offers.

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Guess it depends on how much you like being in a clan with your mates?

Ventrilo resolves just that issue thanks. I don't need to be in the clan. We use the buddy list and actual real talking... I dunno. Somehow it just seems to work out ok...

I think the biggest issue is how many people gank lower levels. I mean I think if pvpers could kill something their own level then there would not be much of an issue. But most them will kill anything that can't put up a fair fight. That being almost all TG/BD/TS :P

But serious maybe looking into ways to prevent player griefing as much might be something to look into?

The punishment for killing Friendly Faction members should be way harsher and less easy reversible. So the whole SL system needs a revamp.

It's really irritating that I get attacked by allied faction runners more often than by enemy faction runners. O_o

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Originally Posted by Mr. Kassad

The punishment for killing Friendly Faction members should be way harsher and less easy reversible. So the whole SL system needs a revamp.

It's really irritating that I get attacked by allied faction runners more often than by enemy faction runners. O_o

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How bad is it now? I just heard someone freaking out they lost 50 SL for killing a neutral.

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Originally Posted by kane

How bad is it now? I just heard someone freaking out they lost 50 SL for killing a neutral.

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More like 5. That sounds like a MASSIVE exaggeration to me.

Depends on the sector but meh... shit happens.

50 SL? If you got a recycle/research toon you get those back pretty quick. I don't have one but those guys do. Trust me ;)

but really: I prefer hanging out with enemy faction runners nowadays because they are nicer to me than my allies. And I'm pretty sure I didn't piss anyone off so far. So I rule out the possibility that this is some kind of revenge-plot against me. :angel:

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Originally Posted by kane

How bad is it now? I just heard someone freaking out they lost 50 SL for killing a neutral.

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Yet another reason to leave your LE in so you can AoE in a team without worrying about killing team-mates and loosing sym/SL.

They should definitely leave LE's alone it helps, co-mingle... this game needs to be more noob friendly not less

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Originally Posted by Chuck Norris

Yet another reason to leave your LE in so you can AoE in a team without worrying about killing team-mates and loosing sym/SL.

They should definitely leave LE's alone it helps, co-mingle... this game needs to be more noob friendly not less

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if your in a team with someone it doesnt matter if you aoe and kill them you wont lose sl. If they are not teamed but simply present in the cave thats when u take a hit on sl/symp.

As the game stands, I wouldn't remove my LE is I was a pistol user or Melee user no matter what. Playing in teams isn't fun as friendly fire would frag you dead.

That, and accidentally killing other runners while leveling hurts you, especially if they run in front of you to grief your leveling experience hoping you kill them by mistake.

In the end, if you are tradeskilling or leveling, there is ZERO reason to remove your LE chip, and I don't see why you all are so hell bent on getting a 0/6 to remove his LE chip.

What do you possibly gain? Oh yeah, you can stroke your tiny epeen while mouth farting on teamspeak as you sweep plaza sewers and kill defenseless runners trying to catch up to someone who has been playing for weeks/months.

Why give the user a bonus for removing their LE? I don't understand this. You aren't trying to help anyone here. This is a pretty see through attempt at just ganking nubs in plaza 2.

Removing your LE chip already comes with benefits.

Oh yeah, and I forgot...

"Oh... Another Neocron is PvP thread (this time disguised) .... Only if we've done this before....

Neptune.

No."

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Originally Posted by Forget My Name

As the game stands, I wouldn't remove my LE is I was a pistol user or Melee user no matter what. Playing in teams isn't fun as friendly fire would frag you dead.

That, and accidentally killing other runners while leveling hurts you, especially if they run in front of you to grief your leveling experience hoping you kill them by mistake.

In the end, if you are tradeskilling or leveling, there is ZERO reason to remove your LE chip, and I don't see why you all are so hell bent on getting a 0/6 to remove his LE chip.

What do you possibly gain? Oh yeah, you can stroke your tiny epeen while mouth farting on teamspeak as you sweep plaza sewers and kill defenseless runners trying to catch up to someone who has been playing for weeks/months.

Why give the user a bonus for removing their LE? I don't understand this. You aren't trying to help anyone here. This is a pretty see through attempt at just ganking nubs in plaza 2.

Removing your LE chip already comes with benefits.

Oh yeah, and I forgot...

"Oh... Another Neocron is PvP thread (this time disguised) .... Only if we've done this before....

Neptune.

No."

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You get it all to well my friend

Paint huffing chav's just dont seems to get it ;D

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Originally Posted by kane

How bad is it now? I just heard someone freaking out they lost 50 SL for killing a neutral.

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yeah, that 'inspector pinky' guy. solution: just dont kill newbs. watch whom youre firing at. or go play a dedicated fps.
really, there is no problem with neocron, there's just a problem with selfish people.

Hey, I am new to Neocron (again, played a bit ages ago). And I want to share my experience.

I removed my LE during the two r175 testing days.

Most of players without LE have caped or at least high level chars so I have no chance against them with my mid-level character. Dieing and loosing items is expensive and annoying. And I was attacked by random players all the time.
By the end of the testing phase I had lost all my equipment and was broke.

I haven't tried to join a clan thou.

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Originally Posted by baracoder

Hey, I am new to Neocron (again, played a bit ages ago). And I want to share my experience.

I removed my LE during the two r175 testing days.

Most of players without LE have caped or at least high level chars so I have no chance against them with my mid-level character. Dieing and loosing items is expensive and annoying. And I was attacked by random players all the time.
By the end of the testing phase I had lost all my equipment and was broke.

I haven't tried to join a clan thou.

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See if we had no LE's it would prove that our players are assholes and would kill the population not for only new but old players. Suggestion: Ban all the adults who were abused as a kid :P

I wonder if some of the holier than thou attitudes that are rampant on the forum would be quite so fiery if the players in game didnt have their LE's in?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Forget My Name

What do you possibly gain? Oh yeah, you can stroke your tiny epeen while mouth farting on teamspeak as you sweep plaza sewers and kill defenseless runners trying to catch up to someone who has been playing for weeks/months.

Why give the user a bonus for removing their LE? I don't understand this. You aren't trying to help anyone here. This is a pretty see through attempt at just ganking nubs in plaza 2.

Removing your LE chip already comes with benefits.

Oh yeah, and I forgot...

"Oh... Another Neocron is PvP thread (this time disguised) .... Only if we've done this before....

Neptune.

No."

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Stop insulting me.
I do not gank low chars other than by accident. And when it happened in my team we always had the decency to pull those small ones up again (in a pepper park fight for example you are not always close enough to see which CR someone has)

I am also for it that All of Via Rosso and Plaza are quite safe - more than now, just not safe zones - well protected by NPCs (that work) - Low Risk but not No Risk

And if you would really think about the arguments I made you would see that at the moment removing LE comes with punishment, not with reward (that one slot in the brain isn't enough to counter the rest.). Also you would see that i don't want to punish LE Users in the ground or force anyone to remove it.

So stop making assumptions based on hot air. Think first!

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Originally Posted by Deus Ex Machina

Stop insulting me.
I do not gank low chars other than by accident. And when it happened in my team we always had the decency to pull those small ones up again (in a pepper park fight for example you are not always close enough to see which CR someone has)

I am also for it that All of Via Rosso and Plaza are quite safe - more than now, just not safe zones - well protected by NPCs (that work) - Low Risk but not No Risk

And if you would really think about the arguments I made you would see that at the moment removing LE comes with punishment, not with reward (that one slot in the brain isn't enough to counter the rest.). Also you would see that i don't want to punish LE Users in the ground or force anyone to remove it.

So stop making assumptions based on hot air. Think first!

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This is the sort of discussion I was hoping for.

Totally agree.

If people get given the choice (thats what this is all about) then they can keep their le in and be safe and sound while doing all the pve and caving they want to. The rest of us who want to take the risk of being "griefed/ganked" can do so with a slightly higher reward for taking that risk.

p.s everyone can do recycle missions. It is a wellknown fact that you can just buy the chems and hand them in a profit.