revive tech haven

http://i.imgur.com/CUUWG.jpg

tech haven once was the homeplace of Fallen Angels, but now its deserted. what happened? TH took a blow with nc 2.0 bdoy, when all FA activity moved to the dome. but when the dome became obsolete, FA HQ moved back to TH, starter Apps went to OZ station and TH now still is a mere shadow of its former glory.

while both the Military Base and the Canyon are fully functional, TH needs some improvements:

- move starter apps back to TH, leaving the jones quest locations in NC, so it would be slightly harder for FA starters (same for TG and CM)
- bring in shops for all goods needed, theres plenty of space in central TH 2. fists would supply armour and weapons like in the canyon, the crytons and medi range of stuff is already there (except datcubes!), theres even empty space like pictured above for furniture and flowers.

i believe these changes could be performed in neglegible work time, but would add greatly to the atmosphere of neocron.

Agree :)

Im sure they are gonna do this. They already added the old Drone Race Track so i suppose traders comes next. :)

Yeah i think starter locations should be in TH and TG canyon for corresponding factions again, there used to be a warning for new players that those were "hardcore" to start off with.

no one plays fa. that would help for starters.

Can we have the OLD FA clan apts back? I love Tech Haven. I remember how awesome it was to explore for the first time.

and a few all buyers please, wasteland type punks would do.

Sounds good to me.

They just need to make GR zone a safe zone and add some ammo vendors, Seems like they want it closed atm

no safe zones thanks. We have enough of those already. We have enough le'd peeps in here already too. I prefer the fighting and being ganked of old nc to be honest. I have got into fights (and lost miserably!) loads over the last weekend and I loved it.



More pvp please, not less.


More tech haven raids too please!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by William Antrim

no safe zones thanks. We have enough of those already. We have enough le'd peeps in here already too. I prefer the fighting and being ganked of old nc to be honest. I have got into fights (and lost miserably!) loads over the last weekend and I loved it.



More pvp please, not less.


More tech haven raids too please!!

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Thats venturing in to an LE discussion right there. Good and bad, Pros and Cons etc. Agreed no safe zones though. Fighting in TH could be interesting if there were some FA runners.

Dont want to sound like im cross posting in another thread but in the GR rules change thread i did touch on this idea. If the gr rules are abandoned there is less incentive to all join the winning team. This is very evident with the sheer amount of BD runners/clans there are on titan currently. Some people will always join the winning side LE or not. Changing gr rules spreads people out more across factions as they wouldnt need to join the winning faction but more the one that suits their preferences. Be a faction because you want to be it and believe in its style and ideas rather than because you can genrep to crp when u feel like it.

LE malus would also encourage them to remove it. 2 ideas that would foster more pvp. They do however require their own seperate discussion in a seperate thread but its too thoughts that immediately popped up from reading this one.

Sorry for the OT. not trying to hijack the thread.

ok, so either make TH all safezones, or remove the soft pr0n music. right?

What kind of services would you like to see in TechHaven? In the past there was obviously a significant shopping presence which is no longer there. What kind of things (staying in the realms of content which exists elsewhere) would draw you toward TechHaven should it receive some loving?

No promises but, as always, I am keen to see what you guys think.

Why not implement a tradeskiller bonus in one of the zones for friendlies of FA? Or would that detract from taking ops?

I'd say not, as who takes an op for the bonus?

This fits well with the tech haven theme too!

That's the problem on my side:

What drew me to TH in the past (around 2004/2005. Yes, this forum acc is a new one) were not the NPC traders but the Player-Traders. The DOY-Player-Traders to be precise.
In the past those were not able to walk around in Plaza 1 as if this was the most normal thing in the world. So the only reasonable safe place to meet up with enemy faction traders was TH. It served as some kind of neutral trading ground for everyone. It was kinda taboo to do this as an CA player (RP-wise) but in most cases it was better to be frowned on than being ambushed in a fake trade agreement in the Wastelands.

So I think the reasons for the death of TH go deeper than just NPC-Traders.
It's about safe-zones like in Plaza 1. It's about the fact that COPBOTs don't care about Anti-NC faction players. It's about the fact that COPBOTs took over security in Pepper Park. It's about COPBOTs having no freeze and low damage nowadays.
This list could be expanded with a lot more facts.

So fixing TH is not about adding one feature but about re-introducing old game mechanics that made it necessary in the first place.
Faction relations are kinda broken nowadays. Apart from epics and FSM it is really unimportant to whom you belong. By re-introducing old advantages and disadvantages of being in a certain faction (like being attacked by guards in certain areas other than HQs) you would not only fix TH but a lot more about Neocron in general.

I hope this was not too confusing because of my bad English.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Kassad

That's the problem on my side:

What drew me to TH in the past (around 2004/2005. Yes, this forum acc is a new one) were not the NPC traders but the Player-Traders. The DOY-Player-Traders to be precise.
In the past those were not able to walk around in Plaza 1 as if this was the most normal thing in the world. So the only reasonable safe place to meet up with enemy faction traders was TH. It served as some kind of neutral trading ground for everyone. It was kinda taboo to do this as an CA player (RP-wise) but in most cases it was better to be frowned on than being ambushed in a fake trade agreement in the Wastelands.

So I think the reasons for the death of TH go deeper than just NPC-Traders.
It's about safe-zones like in Plaza 1. It's about the fact that COPBOTs don't care about Anti-NC faction players. It's about the fact that COPBOTs took over security in Pepper Park. It's about COPBOTs having no freeze and low damage nowadays.
This list could be expanded with a lot more facts.

So fixing TH is not about adding one feature but about re-introducing old game mechanics that made it necessary in the first place.
Faction relations are kinda broken nowadays. Apart from epics and FSM it is really unimportant to whom you belong. By re-introducing old advantages and disadvantages of being in a certain faction (like being attacked by guards in certain areas other than HQs) you would not only fix TH but a lot more about Neocron in general.

I hope this was not too confusing because of my bad English.

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Amazing post, this is how the game should be again! As if a revolt faction such as TG can stroll around p1 plotting to overthrow the government.

Restore factions, patrols etc to as it was in NC1. Make TG hav apps in canyon, FA in TH etc.

I like the idea of bringing back the old TH -- in NC1 my main (well the only one I played) was a Fallen Angel and I loved having TH as my home. I loved the apartments too, so much.

Regarding moving the apartments, however.. this is just an idea but..

It might not be totally possible to hard-code this anyway, but, if TH starter location is indeed moved back to Tech Haven, would it be very difficult to write one "Mr. Jones type quest" specific to Tech Haven? Just one quest -- no matter what profession you choose, you get the same quest. There could be a techy guy or robo-looking-NPC (like a Cyberguard or Sentinel that talks to you, in the same place - in your apartment elevator). The quest is always the same for any profession, BUT, at the end of the quest he says something like, "Thank you for playing your part etc etc, the Fallen Angels greatly appreciate your assistance etc etc... This should help you in your chosen profession." and he gives you the same exact reward(s) you'd get from Mr. Jones, specific to your profession. So if you picked Driver you'd still get the same Quad Key and if you picked Researcher you'd still get the TL-90 research tool.

The only catch with this is the mission would have to be a bit balanced for difficulty, i.e., if you pick Field Medic you might have a hard time killing 4 NPCs with guns that spawn.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Kassad

That's the problem on my side:

What drew me to TH in the past (around 2004/2005. Yes, this forum acc is a new one) were not the NPC traders but the Player-Traders. The DOY-Player-Traders to be precise.
In the past those were not able to walk around in Plaza 1 as if this was the most normal thing in the world. So the only reasonable safe place to meet up with enemy faction traders was TH. It served as some kind of neutral trading ground for everyone. It was kinda taboo to do this as an CA player (RP-wise) but in most cases it was better to be frowned on than being ambushed in a fake trade agreement in the Wastelands.

So I think the reasons for the death of TH go deeper than just NPC-Traders.
It's about safe-zones like in Plaza 1. It's about the fact that COPBOTs don't care about Anti-NC faction players. It's about the fact that COPBOTs took over security in Pepper Park. It's about COPBOTs having no freeze and low damage nowadays.
This list could be expanded with a lot more facts.

So fixing TH is not about adding one feature but about re-introducing old game mechanics that made it necessary in the first place.
Faction relations are kinda broken nowadays. Apart from epics and FSM it is really unimportant to whom you belong. By re-introducing old advantages and disadvantages of being in a certain faction (like being attacked by guards in certain areas other than HQs) you would not only fix TH but a lot more about Neocron in general.

I hope this was not too confusing because of my bad English.

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This would be sooooo amazing. I'd love to see that again. FA in TH, TG in Canyon, and Neocron City as it used to be! Pretty please :)

I agree with the above but to make a simpler request could we please just have tech angels and boobs and guns moved to there. Or at the very least tech angels alone. That would be a start.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by William Antrim

... could we please just have tech angels ...

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*ding*

William, your wish has been granted. go take a look.

(tbh that happened in 2002, and hasnt changed ever since. all the crytons stuff is sold in TH, except datacubes).

and, uh, i apologize for the cheap joke, but your tech-angels-request just asked for it.

We didnt have tech angels till 2005 and the advent of nc2. Before that we used to have Crytons Tech Tools in Tech Haven and it was a much nicer place back then.

As for the cheap joke..... I will ignore it. I am not sure anyone laughed.

back in my day, we had Cryton's and HEWs everywhere! And for monks, we had to walk all the way from Medicare to Yakarma's, all 10 feet, and we liked it! wait what

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Kassad

That's the problem on my side:

What drew me to TH in the past (around 2004/2005. Yes, this forum acc is a new one) were not the NPC traders but the Player-Traders. The DOY-Player-Traders to be precise.
In the past those were not able to walk around in Plaza 1 as if this was the most normal thing in the world. So the only reasonable safe place to meet up with enemy faction traders was TH. It served as some kind of neutral trading ground for everyone. It was kinda taboo to do this as an CA player (RP-wise) but in most cases it was better to be frowned on than being ambushed in a fake trade agreement in the Wastelands.

So I think the reasons for the death of TH go deeper than just NPC-Traders.
It's about safe-zones like in Plaza 1. It's about the fact that COPBOTs don't care about Anti-NC faction players. It's about the fact that COPBOTs took over security in Pepper Park. It's about COPBOTs having no freeze and low damage nowadays.
This list could be expanded with a lot more facts.

So fixing TH is not about adding one feature but about re-introducing old game mechanics that made it necessary in the first place.
Faction relations are kinda broken nowadays. Apart from epics and FSM it is really unimportant to whom you belong. By re-introducing old advantages and disadvantages of being in a certain faction (like being attacked by guards in certain areas other than HQs) you would not only fix TH but a lot more about Neocron in general.

I hope this was not too confusing because of my bad English.

---

Um. tech haven was the trade hub because doy people couldnt go to plaza. That was 2005-6 onwards at the advent of nc2 and is what made TH so popular. The whole red vs blue fiasco.

cake and eat it comes to mind here guys be warned. TH wont go back to that level of popularity without a huge reason to go there in the first place. Or FA runners of which there are very few. Its not the cool faction any more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Doc Holliday

Its not the cool faction any more.

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I still think it's cool ;( ... but TH would have to lose the elevator music to have any chance of being a cool faction again lol. Think it used to have the generic ambient/creepy music.

I am not for RED vs Blue either!
I like the complex faction sympathy system like it is.

But it is still really stupid that total anti CA faction are strolling in front of COPBOTs handing out Voice of Resistance Newspapers.
I wish it was like in the past where it made sense that some of the factions are placed in Plaza/Viarosso and some are placed in PP and OZ while the neutral factions played their own dirty game with everyone.

Nowadays nobody cares if you are in an enemy faction and throws money at you in Plaza 1 instead of meeting up in secret to make illegal trade agreements.

Starter apartments in Techhaven for FA, alot of shopping options, A GR located at the shops.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Kassad

I am not for RED vs Blue either!
I like the complex faction sympathy system like it is.

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I don't. Tbh i am missing DOY and this polarization Red vs. Blue. Maybe because i am a real NC 2.1 DOY baby, started playing end of 2005.

The new faction system is somewhat diffuse for me, often people do not know who is their natural enemy if they are not heavy in roleplay. The old Doy vs. NC made clear front lines and cohesion between the factions was much greater than now.

And in the midth of this Techhaven was a bridgehead for DOY on their way to NC and for the same time a neutral place for trading and talking.

Trading and talking: I know that the issue of save zones vs. pvp is a difficult one, but who believes that traders are standing around in a pvp-zone, trading & building and like to be killed every 15 minutes ? Would be some sort of masochism or so ? :)

I think that the meeting atmosphere in TH near the GRs does ultimately depend strong of the presence of a safe zone. Its not that much a question of the offered services or how quick copbots react. If game is populated more and more the number of pk-only player goes up, too. And these players give a shit to any RP content or soul light. If they have Kill No. 15 for that evening they quit game and go to bed, its that simple :)

Apart from that i agree totally with the post of Mr. Kassad:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Kassad
That's the problem on my side:

What drew me to TH in the past (around 2004/2005. Yes, this forum acc is a new one) were not the NPC traders but the Player-Traders. The DOY-Player-Traders to be precise.
In the past those were not able to walk around in Plaza 1 as if this was the most normal thing in the world. So the only reasonable safe place to meet up with enemy faction traders was TH. It served as some kind of neutral trading ground for everyone. It was kinda taboo to do this as an CA player (RP-wise) but in most cases it was better to be frowned on than being ambushed in a fake trade agreement in the Wastelands.

So I think the reasons for the death of TH go deeper than just NPC-Traders.
It's about safe-zones like in Plaza 1. It's about the fact that COPBOTs don't care about Anti-NC faction players. It's about the fact that COPBOTs took over security in Pepper Park. It's about COPBOTs having no freeze and low damage nowadays.
This list could be expanded with a lot more facts.

---

I am afraid they tried the no safezone bit in the beginning of NC2. Plaza 1 was not safe. It didnt last long like that. The red vs blue thing would make the game 10x more empty than it currently feels that is the problem. Bear in mind they need to be open to new players coming in. At present plaza 1 looks like its former self with servers hopping and people trading all over the place. If you removed that advertising for nc and made it (the hub of activity) 3-4 zones away from the noobs what are they going to think when they come to play for the first time?

I remember playing wow during the Lich King phase and I saw a moderate amount of people around Orgrimmar and none in the other capital cities. Then one day I got the quest to go to Dalaran and having heard about this mystical place I was instantly amazed. I saw the real high end content.

Having trade channels hopping is all well and good but seeing the real people lets people think that the game is alive.

I would equate this to P1 and Tech Haven in nc. The problem is there would hardly be anyone in P1 for the noobs to ask questions of and get pokes/other tradeskilling from. Sure these people could come to P1 but if theyre not naturally there already who would know to ask them to come there? To a noob a perfectly legitimate place to come to could be any zone in the game.

Plaza 1 is a centre of gravity for NC. It is the lifeblood that is NC. Without that you don't have an NC. It needs population. It needs smack talk and it needs the traders. If you put em back in Tech Haven it will suck.

We had P1 before we had Tech Haven. Sure make TH a more friendly accessible place. Hell even put some good mid level levelling areas in there - same for TG and encourage people to go into them. You could even put Cyclopses into the TG cave if you wanted and make it like the Bunker at MB for all I care but please DO NOT mess with Plaza 1.


Thank you.

When I came back and created a FA character I was dissapointed that my starter apt was not in TH...loved the atomosphere there back in the day and really can't understand why CM starts out at MB but FA/TG start in OZ....IMO put them back to their respective homes and add a warning upon character creation for new players (if it isn't already there).

That being said, with low-pop game, I'm in agreement that tradeskillers should not be split between TH and P1, leave that alone please. Hard enough for people to get ahold of tradeskillers during certain timezones as is. Just need to make it a little easier to start out FA and TG buy adding any missing vendors and Jones type missions (CM needs those too I believe).

Well, I don't know on what server you guys played but on Mars Plaza 1 was VERY safe even though it was a non-safe-zone for a long time.
Once in a while (like 3 times a week) some red guys showed up but it was nothing too serious because of the badass copbots and lots of PVP runners that fought them back pretty quickly. Trade chars were totally safe inside the Medicare. I think the worst casualties on trade-char side were two Runners. Maybe 4 or 5 Fighter on another occasion. But those examples were like rare. I mean REALLY rare. 80% - 90% of the P1 raids were total failures with someone trying to snipe a Runner (failing horribly most of the times) and then trying to hide until they got killed by the copbots or other runners.

EDIT: But I have to agree that this needs a certain amount of players with the correct mindset. I wonder if these preconditions are met at the current situation.