Patchnotes:
http://forum.neocron.com/showthread....=1#post2193943
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Droning is going to be dead now. Temporarily? I'm guessing months. 6+ at best. I dislike this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alduin
I do like the other changes, though. Good to see some bugs being fixed! Especially alt-tab fixes.
Exactly, "Temp" is for god knows how long. Thanks for all the QQ on drones. Every class in NC has now been nerfed/broken.
I understand that we are not paying customers, but you should see all of the talk in OOC chat right now. It's pretty much an outrage (on both sides) about aoe drones. So can you give us an answer what TEMPORARILY means?
Also, when do you expect this patch to be live?
1) Neocron is now going to consist of only leveling AOE Tanks and AOE Monks, and the occasional AOE Pistol/Grenade PE. Leveling without AOE is something no one likes to do, and this change will effectively kill off the Spy class.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alduin
2) New Tradeskillers are going to cease to exist. The majority of people use Droning only so they can LOM over to tradeskilling.
3) We all know temporarily is going to be many months.
I already got my capped Constructor and high end Researcher done, so this change doesn't effect me one bit, but it will effect many, many new players who just want to tradeskill (within a reasonable amount of time, not 3 months of rifle usage), but now can't.
I guess business is going to be booming for me :)
I for one am very happy about the temporary removal of AOE drones. I do, however think AoE rifles/pistols need to be considered so all classes have a fair run of AoE levelling.
Also... mob damage is so high. Spies are going to struggle.
Exactly. I had literally just lommed up so I could level up as a droner then switch to researcher. I have almost lost my motivation to do much of anything on the spy now. Who knows when the patch will be live and how soon before it is "fixed"
How about in this SAME patch, you make it so constructing and researching actually gives you worthwhile XP? If you did that, then new tradeskillers will not be put off.
Changes of this patch will go live after it has been thoroughly tested and remaining or new issues that need fixing have been addressed.
Disabling AoE drones ist obviously not what we consider a fix for the problem and you can and are right to expect us to fix this issue at the core at the soonest possibility.
Those who claim that "temporarily" implies a timeframe of XYZ are doing so without any foundation. Help us test patches and report back issues and you will see that we have no intention to return to the "old days" of waiting ages for big patches that end up breaking stuff all over the place. We have deliberately kept this patch concise, knowing that smaller and focussed patches can be pushed out with less risk in faster intervals.
Asking for specific dates or timeframes however, is mute as everything we do is subject to various influence factors that we cannot control completely, thus when we do not provide an exact ETA there is good reason.
As I have heared people complaining that exploits x/y/z are not mentioned in the patchnotes: We do not provide details on exploits that are still open to abuse on retail. Issue #1 on the patchlog can be seen as a meta issue for a number of other issues we cannot talk about here.
Invisible walls to just turning off drones... Have you thought about just disabling spies all together? could be easier
I urge in the strongest possible terms to reconsider the removal of AoE drones for four reasons:
1) Removing more content for "fixing" will create great concern among the playerbase, it's already started in OOC chat. There is a great feeling that the game is sliding backwards.
2) You are creating a definite caste system of "haves" (people that have WoC, MC-5 chips and capped characters with lots of cash) and "have nots". This system actually FAVORS people that exploited those locations before they were disabled. By creating unstoppable barriers to advancement to those levels the people that did "the wrong thing" are now the most powerful in the game and always will be, no one can catch up.
3) Removing Droners as a viable class leaves spies with only three AoE weapons (the three rocket pistols). Since AOE is widely considered an absolute requirement for reaching the 100+million overcapped skill points to WoC-1. Spies now have NO ROUTE to WoC that can be done with any degree of speed.
4) by making spies nonviable to level you are creating a massive gap among people that have used the droner-LOM method to achieve high tradeskill levels and the people that have not. This means that new people coming to the game have very little hope of ever being economically viable in one of the most unique aspects of the game.
In compensation, at the very least, tradeskill XP should be increased to the point it is a viable leveling path and rifles should be given AoE... BEFORE the drones are disabled, not an unknown time ("soon(R) when it's done(TM)") later.
TO SUM UP: WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS GIVING EXPLOITERS A MASSIVE REWARD AT THE EXPENSE OF HONEST PLAYERS THAT ARE NOW TOTALLY NONVIABLE. PLEASE RECONSIDER THAT AS YOUR OFFICIAL STANCE.
I posted above that in order to fix it so that tradeskillers can level up-- how about increasing the XP received when constructing or researching? As it is, almost every tradeskiller will want to level up as a droner. This has been trashed at the moment, so can we go with a real solution for people who care about tradeskills?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mokoi
And now something positive..
Added TL92 Tangent Assault Pulselaser Pistol to high level tech pistol vendor
Best news ever! Well maybe not ever.. but still, awesome news :D
Looks like a lot of the other fixes gonna be sweet aswell ofc.
I have to admit, this is a pretty good argument. Removing AOE drones at this stage when so many WoC spies have already used these 'exploits' does seem like you're rewarding them. There has to be something else you can do to boost spy xp gain.Quote:
Originally Posted by dWintermut3
QQ PLEASE REMOVE ALL AOE n the game, for fairness sake QQ
gotta say this is hilarious, lets hope patch 175 works this time
Im going to continue to level all 3 of my spies as I have been since the start of Titan and all will be fully capped in a few more weeks. Just so I can laugh at anyone who says spies cant be levelled.
P.s I have not droned for one second on titan. There is more than one way to level a spy fast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legato
I have two trade skillers both currently sitting at Dex/Int 70ish and neither has droned. Ever
I am currently only getting about 1 level per half hour or so and it is showing signs of slowing down but I think I can cap all 3 in another week or two.
My rifle spy is 98 dex/94 int base, and ive mostly just hunted warbots with him or teamed for caves. My researcher is base 98 int now too, neither of them droned. It does just take a bit of time and work to do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by William Antrim
However I do think the 'temporary' removal of all AOE drones is a bit of a kick in the teeth fix for reasons stated above. those that have blatantly not played by the same ruleset have been walking aorund with woc dex for a few weeks now
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by Legato
I do get the impression that all the talk about the tradeskillers not being able to level without drones means in fact that people have gotten used to this kind of easy leveling and farming too much.
I level my traders without drones, and it's fun. Only thing I miss at the moment are possible places to go after the launcher cylcops for my pistol conster. That is more of a subject for me than drones. And ofc like Legato I want much more XP for doing trader stuff like consting, bartering, ressing, and doing missions.
NC's mechanics can be abused too easily with drones, so people should get over it. If there can be a solution there will be, I am sure. I think we should primarily be happy about these volunteers working their asses off to do something that hasn't been done in years: provide a new working stable patch. Even if there are changes that you don't like.
Regards
All this outrage is a disgrace, some of the comments are really disrespectful to the dev team who are providing this game free of charge.
To clarify you are owed nothing, and if you can't see that the dev team are working towards creating a stable and balanced game then you shouldn't play.
I agree with most of what dWintermut and a couple others have just said about shafting the Spy class considerably.
I found Titan was up and running a bit later than most people by the looks of it. And what I noticed immediately is that despite the so called anti-exploiting stance, very little would appear to be done about it. I know this particular part of my post will be going a bit off topic, but anyway. Only the very severe exploiters appears to be dealt with in any meaningful way, the others simply carry on and laugh in your face, and say you have no life when you confront them (yes, Boy, whatever your forum account name is, I'm talking about you :D). For starters there needs to be an overhaul in the way exploiters are dealt with. You should be able to submit an in-game ticket for a GM to catch them in the act. Submitting a ticket and being responded with "Send essay of information already associated with a ticket, and proof to exploits@neocron.info" is a retarded approach in most cases. You can submit a ticket when you're trapped somewhere, but not when someone is cheating and as is often the case, destroying the value of the economy.Quote:
Originally Posted by dWintermut3
While I can appreciate removing/disabling something to stop further exploiting, it does seem it's a bit late.
If someone is caught exploiting, as mentioned, they shouldn't just get a slap on the wrist, such as a warning. If it's evident that it's far from an accidental situation, they should have some other form of in-game punishment as well. Remove half of their experience, wipe all their WoC levels, whatever it may be. When they know they can get away with it, they'll keep doing it.
This seems to be a recurring theme mentioned so far. That is, assuming all the droner spies are trying to power level yet another tradeskiller. For many of us, we're no longer 13, 14, 15. We can't spend 8 hours a time levelling to WoC with rifles. And when you're starting your first character on a new server from scratch, droning makes sense. You do whatever is the most efficient. I did end up putting aside about 7 hours to get the character moving along, only to find it was rolled back and had to start again. When the patchnotes were released just now, I found AoE drones are kaput, and I'd just spent 250k on getting some RK1000 blueprints researched, and the weaponparts to build them (near enough all my cash). So I definitely fit into the camp of those who are going to need to farm using crap drones for a long time, just to work up the money to pay someone to research and construct a bunch of rifles I can actually use (since pistols are unviable for most solo PvM).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Eres
With all this whining about AOE Drones being disabled you guys forget that team XP is now calculated correctly. What about we see how that turns out until we bitch on? And what is a few months of waiting time (and I doubt that it will be months) compared to the years we've been waiting already?
Disrespectful ? Hardly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Haxxor
AFAIK, disabling AOE drones is the quick-fix to answer complains in the community.
If anything, community needs to grow up and realize AOE drones have always been this way, and that they are simply part of the arsenal available to spies for making damage.
I have seen runners in-game with /36 chars waste their time, frapsing/reporting, and generally trying to be a GM telling other runners how to play.
Those runners are the reason the DEV team is applying this AOE removal in #175.
I fell these runners need to stop complaining to get the DEV to adjust the game to their styles of play.
All in all, I'm simply worried that the next class to be complained about will be nerfed just like we see now. Way I see things, next will probably be APU's barrels be removed from game because it is possible to solo caves using them.
I think disabling drones without adding anything extra is unfair to people just starting out. I see people in game trading rares who have 1000 techs to trade, and you cant tell me that they have done this legit.
All I hope for is that mob damage is reduced so you can actually level without hiding around a corner or being on the other side of the zone.
But I have to say as far as the current server is going it has completely killed NC for me, the community has gone down hill and is basically full of exploiters/inconsiderate nobs to put it bluntly. I believe I have more fun reading the forum than actually getting in game these days.
You know, I remember when levelling via drones was a thing it was known you could do, but most spies levelled pistol or rifle. They still can. Contrasting HC tank levelling rates with drones is a little silly - one is much, much faster than the other.
Yeah, it's sledgehammer. And yeah, it's rewarding all those who took the piss fastest. But that was predictable from the moment Titan launched without patch 175 - that now was the time to abuse the system as much as possible before things. And still is of course, in the time between now and the next patch.
It is very hard to hunt for rares with a droner, because the drone doesn't loot. Most of the community's rare farming is done with rhinos and rifle spys, with the exception of DoY tunnels and cave bosses. From my experience, hunting firemobs is by far a better source of unressed that the tunnels.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unrestrained
I can personally harvest a good 25-30 unressed in one evening with my rifle spy. When you have a clan with a dozen or so people farming rares everyday, do the math it's very easy to get 1000 rares within one month.
Team effort ftw. I have 600 parts listed, and only collected about 40 of them :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Unrestrained
You are right about the inconsiderate noobs, but wrong about the exploiters..
Cheating isn't a gameplay style or tactic, it's cheating, simple as. The very fact that people (me included) have been complaining about people exploiting the game mechanics shows that's it's those people (probably including yourself based on what you just said) that have caused them to be removed (as much as I don't like the decision myself). We're the ones trying to get THEM to play without cheating. Titan was a good effort toward getting Neocron active again, and active it is, but it would seem in a bad way. To the point where many of us 'normal' users don't want to put up with this crap anymore. If it's going to be like this, you might as well just delete Titan and get everyone back to Terra.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kame
^^^ exactly. This only happened because of all the QQ about it. People that don't know how to play this game well assume that if ppl have lots of tech/rares it's because of cheats. You couldn't be more wrong. Go to the canyons and count the rhinos. All the exploiting droners, they are you constructors/reseachers/barters. Not the Tanks/PPU's running around with rares fighting in OP's. All this nerf is, is just trying to appease the masses in OOC chat. I also like the ppl posting about how this isn't a big deal, as they run around with their HC tanks or APU's. You'd be crying if you lose your aoe cannon's or barrels.
Just because he doesn't speak of those players in high regard doesn't mean he's a cheater. The problems is most people that spam about exploiters have no proof. I've seen lots of people just say cuz they are mad a droner is there or something of that nature. I've never exploited with droning (or any other) and have been harassed by players saying they are taking pictures or sending a ticket. it's absurd.Quote:
Originally Posted by unreal
The real problem is everyone is assuming everyone else is cheating. Not that everyone actually is.
You've got to break a few eggs to make an omelette. Let's give these guys a chance to prove their capacity to fix issues quickly without putting us in limbo.
I mean, by all means, you can just not play the game if AoE drones being disabled until a fix is found if it is that big of a deal to you. Sure, I love my RG-1000s and RK-1000s, but if I need to sacrifice them for a temporary period of time for a step forward, then so be it.
[QUOTE=unreal;2194005]Cheating isn't a gameplay style or tactic, it's cheating, simple as. The very fact that people (me included) have been complaining about people exploiting the game mechanics shows that's it's those people (probably including yourself based on what you just said) that have caused them to be removed (as much as I don't like the decision myself). We're the ones trying to get THEM to play without cheating./QUOTE]
Might I remind you, cheating is safespotting the drone, not simply using them.
Nowadays on Titan, a lot of runners just start accusing people of exploiting as soon as they see a drone, regardless of the position/usage of the drone. Using drones for leveling is not cheating.