[Idea] Allow stealthed characters to be targetted.

As the title says really.

Without a radical overhaul of just about everything, stealth is essentially a 'quit' button. Remaining invisible but still being able to be targeted could reduce the annoyance. You can frequently follow the blue fog, but do nothing. If they can be targeted, then getting clear takes a bit more skill.
Maybe also disallow medkits in stealth too?

On a side note: Stealth requires TC, so there's not much point in using stealth as a low tech user and no disadvantage to high tech users.
Perhaps something else, like WPW or IMP instead?

There are weapons that can hit chars in stealth (Plasma weapons) and there is a spell that can counter the stealth.
Also AOE weapons are a method to encounter a stealthed spy.
Most tank players say going into stealth is annoying (and several of the pro gamers say so, too). But without that stealth spies would go down like APUs.
And as a spy I do not feel annoyed by stealth.

Stealth based on another skill just means weakening the spy and most likely making it unprofitable to use stealth. There are only 2 possible skill types you can base stealth on: int and dex (otherwise it doesn't make sense on a spy and it would be hard to explain why tanks ond/or monks can't use it).
Normally spies have hacking and weaponlore in int and rifle/pistol-combat, agility and t-c in dex. As low tech spy you go without a long stealth in favor of more speed.
An extra skill means to split up the skill points further. In dex almost impossible if you want a spy that actually does damage or can move in a reasonable manner.
Moving it to int means to reduce the wpl which is essential on the high tech weapons to actually hit the enemy (excluding all the "uber"-pro-super-gamers, which could aim with a devo with 0 wpl). Leaving that aside for a sec low tech spies could use it and could therefor have speed, stealth and weapons that do damage, which seems a bit unbalanced

I get the impression that he wants more weapons other than the current list of weapons that can hit stealthers.

It is however a very fine line between nerfing stealthers completely and tweaking the class some.

I propose to reduce stealth time personally as the only real change I would like to see and yes I have played a spy extensively over the years.

I think there are enough weaposn who can hit spys in stealth. I don't know why no one use AoE against stealther. I think it's ur own fault ;) The second thing is u can cast holy true sight and the spys are visible with every 2sec tic. Greetz

I also do not think stealth is a problem. Remember that it takes some skill to efficiently use stealth especialy in an op fight. If the pPU misses to put a heal on the spy before he vanishes the stealth at best keeps you alive a few seconds longer. And if you got the heal you're verry well visible. As was said: simply send a Spy with Plasma Rifle or CS Tank after him or shoot your Malediction/Doombeamer at the spy -> Problem solved.

Instead of nerfing stealth on the Spy I'd even say bring back at least one of the three bigger stealth tools back to the PE.

Same here. Stealth is a tactical method and spies do have this ability to escape from too much dmg. I can only second the comment of having enough ways to counter stealth. BUT what really needs improvement is the True Sight Sanctum. Bigger Sanctum Area!

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Originally Posted by scientit/Bamboo

Same here. Stealth is a tactical method and spies do have this ability to escape from too much dmg. I can only second the comment of having enough ways to counter stealth. BUT what really needs improvement is the True Sight Sanctum. Bigger Sanctum Area!

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That's true. The True Sight Sanctum psi module must unstealth them faster and in a wider area.

Stealth is a special ability of spies and therefore need to stay as it is. Also as already mentioned are enaugh weapons around which still can hit them. Beside if you are close enaugh u can still see them, follow them as long as they are stealthed and kill tem when stealth running out. So i dont see any problem at all.
I need to agree with the sanctum statement it needs to cover a bigger area and stealthed should be instant dropped of if a stealther moves in the area covered by it.

So the answer is basically 'lol, learn 2 play'?
In order to fight a stealthed character I have to have a PPU buttplug? Or a plasma weapon (which does almost no dmg)? Or an AoE weapon (which riflers don't have access to and no rare for pistolers)? And in order to use it I have to be a TC user or loose a portion of effectiveness with low-techs?

Stealth is not a tactic, it's a get-out clause. I have a spy and it basically allows me to run away without risk if I'm loosing a fight.

A cool-down, casting time and/or cancellation of any healing on activation are other possibilities.

We killed spys often:
- with WA they burn like hell (or other AoE)
- with Dissy till 4 shots on stealthed spys
- with CS and First Love if u know where they are.

Sure it's only a l2p ;)
If u need their location cast damageboost on them

Every gun should allow you to hit enemies like the CS, even if not having a target. Propelled metal doesn't just turn harmless...

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Originally Posted by Drachenpaladin

Every gun should allow you to hit enemies like the CS, even if not having a target. Propelled metal doesn't just turn harmless...

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Okay. This is a good compromise for me. The stealth is only a invisible tool, so if a bullet is shot in ur direction it should hit u.
So every weapon (except spells) should hit u.

sounds fair enough for me!

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Originally Posted by Drachenpaladin

Every gun should allow you to hit enemies like the CS, even if not having a target. Propelled metal doesn't just turn harmless...

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Doesn't work with the current game mechanics. Weapons that don't have a projectiles that do damage on touch like the burst weapons or rocket weapons, need a closed reticle (at least not open). Using a stealth tool prevents this. Your argument that propelled metal doesn't just turn harmless isn't working here. Then I could also state, that if I could use a stealth for real, I'd do a roll over my shoulder to get away from those harmful metal. So please enable special movement tactics to avoid being aimed that easily ...
Stealth is a possibility and challenge in this games pvp. It forces you to be more creative and to use tactics. And there are lots of them. There are both high and low tech weapons to deal with it. There is a counter spell, you can mark your target in different ways and so on. If you want simple a simple rock scissors paper FPS game, maybe try CS...

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Originally Posted by Grogor

Doesn't work with the current game mechanics. Weapons that don't have a projectiles that do damage on touch like the burst weapons or rocket weapons, need a closed reticle (at least not open). Using a stealth tool prevents this.

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Well, as stated, the Cursed Soul is a non AoE weapon and iirc not a Burst weapon - but still hurts stealthed players. So it IS actually working with current game mechanics. The rest of the lock-on (?) weapons just need the same ability.

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Originally Posted by Drachenpaladin

Well, as stated, the Cursed Soul is a non AoE weapon and iirc not a Burst weapon - but still hurts stealthed players. So it IS actually working with current game mechanics. The rest of the lock-on (?) weapons just need the same ability.

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IIRC the CS can hit stealthed players because the shots has a very Little AoE effect (kinda like how the Xbow used to be)..
And CS is a Burst weapon..

What Dropout said.
And with game mechanics I didn't meant, it's not possible to realize. I meant game mechanics require you to aim before you shoot on most weapons. And to realize your request, this game mechanic has to be altered. And to be honest, I'd hate to see such a change to the mechanics.

The X-Bow never had a real AoE Damage. It was proven, that a bug Dmg occured after the recticle was a second on the target and you fired a direct missshot after that. It was like a grazeshot.

As it is for the rest of the thread. My Opinion is, let stealth be like it is now! There are only a few players who could use it properly. Most good pvp players only skill for the 5 seconds stealth anyway, because they want to put the skillpoints in other important skills.
The real problem is the netcode. You could easily follow any stealther. But with the netcode rightnow, ppl warp around like hell and so stealthers get easily lost.

I have seen even the best stealther go down if you play him right. So get some tactics an counter these stealthers!