A reply to the situation here.
Not sure what I make of it. Though personally the whole SL/symp system needs a complete overhaul so that faction relations are appropriately represented.
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A reply to the situation here.
Not sure what I make of it. Though personally the whole SL/symp system needs a complete overhaul so that faction relations are appropriately represented.
Just for those who can't be bothered to click on the link and find the important bits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nidhogg
Edit: I'll post on this in a minute....Quote:
Originally Posted by Nidhogg
Wait.. so this isn't about CMs and their SL situation... but people making/using CM chars to provoke people into shooting them so they loose SL?
It's a bit iffy, but I think I might agree with KK on this one.
It's NOT griefing eh?
The soullight and faction relations rules brought in with evo 2.1 are the worst version since NC1 went retail.
The person that came up with them probably made them up with a serious hangover on a monday morning.
There has never been soullight rules which have been so easy to manipulate, explode or be aplied for griefing.
I've posted many many ways in which it would be possible for people to plain harass levelers and get all their red soullight belts.
When i once went in a cave, killed the first person i saw the people further up in the cave (who were not teamed) went red sl. Sweet leaf and me went and killed them all. About 20 minutes later i got contacted by a gm about it.
So. When i go -99sl it means i don't realy care about it, i have my friends to pick up my stuff when i die. So all i do is send in a pe that goes in the aoe to die, then i log my combat/hacking alt and harvest.
You guys have NO idea what you started.
As for the CM thing:
*me unpokes his cm spy, specs some extra hack and puts all his armor in the cabinets*
I don't do this because i enjoy being a general asshat (people who know me would say i'm not). I am going to do all this to prove to KK that they should put some more thought into things they come up with, and at least have the dignity to acknowledge it when it's a screwed up situation.
I allready offer my appologies for the extra work the gms are going to have the next few days. I know you guys are doing a good job, and hey, it's nothing personal.....
Erm yeah. People are making 0/2's with no LE and CON to run infront of a MB zoneline fight and die, forcing the player to loose SL and FS when he was trying to fight a red runner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dribble Joy
Going back to your original point, the current SL/FS does not work for City Mercs. A pro-runner or a anti-runner can kill NPC's to recover SL/FS. City Mercs cannot do this, as they are neutral to everyone. Therefore the City Mercs faction is not balanced.
Here is one idea to get the City Mercs faction playable, and I think it would make life a lot more interesting for City Merc players.
Every 3 days, the City Merc's neutral status changes towards 2 factions to hostile for 3 days only.
One faction is a pro-NC faction and the other is a pro-DoY Faction. If you want the RP reason for this, City Admin are upset that a Crahn runner distrubuted a leaflet in Techhaven claiming Reeza is a secret member of the Brotherhood of Crahn. City Admin have their hands full with other matters, so they hire the mercs to take care of Crahn.
At the same time, a runner from Biotech spilt his drink on a hooker in Pepper Park who is Madame Veronique's sister's daughter. She hires the mercs for payback, as that dress was expensive. ;)
The reasons to why they have to shoot a pro-runner or an anti-runner doesn't have to be explained to the player. (It would be good if it was explained, and it doesn't have to tie into the storyline.) All they have to understand they are the guns for hire, and they have been hired to kill.
So each time a CM logs in, they check their F5 window, and they go and shoot some reds. Members of the other factions will need to check their faction standings everyday to make sure that their own faction is not on the CM's "Target of the day" list.
So how does this fix the SL/FS problem? Well quite simply they have red's to shoot. ;)
I'm assuming its the same for all of you but lets go through it one step at a time.
I choose to have a Pro city runner. This means I cannot visit DoY without getting shot to pieces. Very upsetting, but a fact of the game.
I choose to have an Anti city runner. This means I cannot visit Neocron without getting shot to pieces. Very upsetting, but a fact of the game.
I choose to have a CM runner. This means I can go ANYWHERE (good for a barter skiller), but I'm not really trusted by either side. Very upsetting, but a fact of the game.
So, when I choose to be a CM, I accept these certain conditions just the same as accepting the conditions when joining Pro or Anti factions.
I understand that CM runners seem to be victimised by certain players running in front of "line of fire". Very upsetting, but now a product of the players, as well as the game.
I was Told in n1, "if you don't wanna PvP, then use an LE". It sounded a little unfair because I never bothered anyone in such a manner.
Now the reverse, but equally unfair option is being put to CM runners.
"If you don’t wanna get stuck with bad SL & symp, check you're fire or choose ANY other faction".
My heart bleeds...
Dont have time to post what i want to so i'll do that later, but I did have a discussion with a GM about this, and he argued that the current soul light situation "benfits" CM's on a role play issue in that we cant just randomly pk in city sectors etc.
I could have argued with him about it, but since it wouldn't change anything right then I saw little point, all he could do is send a "report" to be filed away somewhere...
God, i really doubt ANYONE from KK is actually seriously playing this game. Because then you'd see how you just once again fucked people over.
:rolleyes:
We are the Ants, KK Are the Kids with the Hammers O_oQuote:
Originally Posted by SorkZmok
Fucking us over, btw why can i say fuck but not... ******** , lol.... r*pe (* = a )
Can you post this discussion up? Granted, as a CM you can't gank in city sectors without a SL penalty, and the same is true in reverse, but I don't see that as a major benefit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zheo
The whole point of this was to limit the newb killing, ally killing and PK of levellers in caves. The soullight rules haven't caused me the slightest headache because i do none of the above.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugs Gunny
My point exactly. If you don't want the time.. don't do the crime ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugs Gunny
CityMercs are still hostile to Anarchy Breed. A possible solution would be a patch where AB vandal kills would gain them a little soullight. There would still be a risk involved as you would have to leave a safezone and be tracked on the NCPD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brammers
Ahh Anarchy Breed, didn't think of that faction - not a bad idea. ;) As for being tracked on NCPD, well thats the same risk all around for any runner with low SL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Kot
Surely CMs can kill red SL people and regain SL?
Anyway as I have said many many many times allready, a purely symp based system would work much better, or if you want to look at it another way, faction specific SL. So killing CMs would only loose you CM symp/SL and not affect your standings with CA or anyone else.
Which red people would those be DJ? Oh you mean red SLers? You havent gained SL for killing red SL people for as long as I have been playing NC, and certainly not now. Also as red SL is now -67 you find VERY few of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dribble Joy
I guess you're not reading it right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Kot
Personaly i think there is no valid roleplay reason for someone to lose massive soulllight for killing an enemy in a leveling cave. Besides if you're leveling you should have an le, that's what it's there for. If you kill neutrals or allieds fine take the sl hit.
I myself and many others don't give a damn about soullight. What does this mean then?
Now imagine i'm -99sl not caring, i go in. When i gank people i won't drop lower. They usualy don't stand a chance unless they have a good ppu or more ppus with them. Now if they do happen to kill me i have a buddy pick up my belt, they lose sl, then get killed by my teammate and drop possible highslotted leveling weapons, sometimes even rares.
I'm not someone that's out to grief people, otherwise i would have been pulling a "[ edited ]" on people for months at mb. However due to KK's blatant ignorance in the whole griefing possibilities and their suborn belief in the current soullight system i WILL go on a campaing doing all those things that are not considered griefing, but annoys the hell out of people.
Sure it's annoying to stealth into viaroso and kill the biotech npcs, especialy with a whole team of people waiting for you, but it's possible.
And oh boy, the poor mercs. They defend themselves in the wrong zone and they go red sl, waiting it off for days in techhaven. I actualy got a cs from a cm belt when he came to defend his op.
Doesn't KK notice that the CM faction is near dead?
Didn't they simulate griefing posibilities when they came up with the new soullight rules?
Wait, let me guess, the person that came up with them "hardly has time to play neocron at home, and when he does he logs on his tradeskiller char."
No more names. You know what happens to threads when you continue to use names.
N
First, they look at you funny, like there's something wrong with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nidhogg
Then they're following you around.
They watch you sleeping.
They lock your threads.
Then they end you.
<_<
was in NC1 when i plaid :)Quote:
Originally Posted by CMaster
So you did ask, so have I given:Quote:
Originally Posted by Brammers
"As far as future soullight changes are concerned, it looks like the present zone rules are here to stay,
although KK may consider minor adjustments to the amount of SL lost if they consider there to be a problem.
Please remember that for every runner now who claims the SL penalties are too harsh, there was a runner pre-evo who complained that SL penalties were a joke, and that PKers in leveling areas and elsewhere used to get off almost scot free. The SL system was changed to what it is now after long-standing demands from the community together with the desire to restrict 'newb killing'.
As a CityMerc, all runners are neutral to you, but this doesnot necessarily restrict PvP to any great extent. As it stands, you can kill whomever you wish in any outdoor sector, as these will either be a wasteland sector or a battlefield sector. You can kill anyone in the travel zones, outpost zones and DNS zones of the hacknet, providing you stay clear of the leveling 'dungeon' zones. You may kill people in outskirts sectors with only a small SL penalty and no symp loss. Outskirt sectors are: Pepper Park, Outzone, Industrial Sectors and Abandoned DoY Sectors. The only places you should not kill any runner is in any dungeon sector, apartment or City Sector: these being all Plaza, Viarosso, Military Base or occupied DoY Sector. When you think about it, these roles befit your RP status of a 'Mercenary'. Mercs can be hired by any faction as peacekeepers with a 'licenece to kill' in the lawless wastelands, but should not bring faction politics or grievances within civilised city walls.
I hope this clarifies the situation for you."
-END-
My arguement is this, I can't kill them in a city sector if I dont -100 soul light and -50 sympathy. However they cant quite happily kill me and then go and sympathy kill. Also to the last part, If you look at the RP of the game, we are 'Mercenaries' and as such get hired to do jobs, why should/would we care if that caused us to attack someone within a city? Infact we could be hired to aid an attack on either DoY or NC.
People never care if they kill me in a city sector but I have to flee if I don't have the soullight for it, and I cannot regenerate my soullight if I lose it easily like that can. For example a NExT runner could kill me in a city sector and do any of the following to gain soullight.
1. Kill enemy runners or a "soullight bitch".
2. Kill enemy npcs. (who are quite easy to kill).
3. Wait it out in a safe zone such as tech haven or their appartment.
4. Do missions for a faction (assuming sl is above -36).
A City Merc can only do 3 and 4 and waiting it out can take days! Where as killing a "Soullight bitch" will take about five minutes or so if they respawn fast.
Even if KK made killing "soullight bitchies" an exploit they couldn't stop you from killing npc's or people retending to fight back, it would just mean that the target would have to be above a certain level and have a weapon. Not they could and inforce it due to the whole fact of PvP.
I don't actually ask for much from Reakktor, but asking for the MB entrance to be an outskirt sector and changing it to where their is no penalty for killing neutral runners, isn't much to ask is it? That would pretty much solve my problem. Or a more complex idea is create a faction that is red to city mercs and neutral to all others, so we can have "Soullight bitchies" too, the fact is that soullight is open to exploitation and it is impossible to fix that without removing PvP.
The best and most complex solution is to allow clans to "war" and not lose soullight, but maybe only if both clans agree to the war so that you couldn't do it just to gang a small clan of green runners. As well as allowing city mercs to take on contracted kills so that single players could be put on a list any the person who places it pays a fee or say 100-200k (to stop people spamming it) Which GM's cant alter and delete etc if need be.
I'm not sure if any of this makes sense but there you go...
Killing a soullight bitch is NOT legal.
Killing npcs is.
But your evil do you care?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugs Gunny
Does anyone care when he has -90 sl ?
Make MB entrance a safe zone, you can't make the CM HQ a safe zone because of being required to kill certain individuals in the beginning, but I guess those NPC's can be cloned in sector 3 (which already happened to some degree). MB entrance is a pathetic place to fight, force people to go away from the stupid tiny box next to the zone line is all I have to say. As seen in that MB video someone posted lately of just people running round like spoons at the MB entrance zone line, it's pathetic and boring.
CM really should have at least one enemy again, so they're on an even playing ground with everyone else regarding SL/own faction symp. Everyone (including myself) whores the NPC's, some people have either trial accounts or alternate characters to let their friends whore from (the most recent one I saw was Conster Wenis in pp3), it's all a big joke, especially where symp loss is concerned.
Since i have two notes attached to my account for it, as a matter of fact i DO care.
I allways tell the clannies to go kill enemy runners somewhere or preferably the biotech npcs. Heh, most of the time we're in a team doing it and the unfortunate person trying to stop us gets us another 5 sl. Although TFC have been quite annoying at times :-)
Anyone notices how DoY has 5 factions and NC has 6? maybe put one of the NC factions out and make them red to CM? I don't see the need for city admin lol
I though they fixed this a few patches ago for killing people under a cirtain SL.Quote:
Which red people would those be DJ? Oh you mean red SLers? You havent gained SL for killing red SL people for as long as I have been playing NC, and certainly not now. Also as red SL is now -67 you find VERY few of them.
If SL was ditched for symp and some means of self defence system for killing was implemented (if you consider such a system to be conductive to the game's atmosphere), CMs would not have the trouble they do now.
Add in a simple mission system or runner - runner mission system for CMs and we could happily play mercs (or even without any integral interface). Symp losses would have to be the same as for any other neutral kill, but splitting your kills between one side and the other (or simply taking one side) would keep you good in the eyes of at least some, and not loose you symp with CM unless you start faction killing.
sorry, but thats just bullshit. the long-standing demands were from parts of the community, not from the community. I would call the people where those demands came from carebears.Quote:
Please remember that for every runner now who claims the SL penalties are too harsh, there was a runner pre-evo who complained that SL penalties were a joke, and that PKers in leveling areas and elsewhere used to get off almost scot free. The SL system was changed to what it is now after long-standing demands from the community together with the desire to restrict 'newb killing'.
you are a noob? you wanna level without having to watch your back? leave your LE in.
you don't want to have an LE in your brain? welcome to the brutal world of neocron. pack some ammo, grab a gun, and take care of your fucking self.
SL rules should only apply in cities, to prevent/punish ally killing. everything else is just stupid.
edit: I went from 100 sl and 100 fac sym to 0 / 50 yesterday. why? because I was killing a ppu (who luckily tried to escape death by synching and died outside of the cave) and a PE from a clan I'm at war with. am I expected to forget who my enemies are, just because they might not want to fight at the moment? again, this is just plain stupid.
Since when have noobs ever had the common sense to leave their le in?Quote:
Originally Posted by John Wu
And everything with the soul light issue would be absolutly fine IF city mercs had a way of recovering lost soullight other than the really slow current methods. I'm all for punishing those that kill allies, so don't get me wrong I actually like the soullight rules atm, accept for the fact that CM is neutral to all, and since we have no way of recovering from defending ourselves it's un-fair. I do try to avoid killing in city sectors etc, however it does make the game alot more difficult specially when they wont come out and play ;)
I'm telling every noob I meet that he better leaves his LE in, or prepares to die alot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zheo
after getting killed 10 times everyone should have learned their lesson and put their LE back in. if not - tough luck.
the SL rules dont only apply for killing allies. they also apply when some CA guy comes to the dome to kill my allies and then hides in some sidestreet. I get a SL hit for killing an enemy in my own fucking city .. yeah, absolutely fine :rolleyes:Quote:
And everything with the soul light issue would be absolutly fine IF city mercs had a way of recovering lost soullight other than the really slow current methods. I'm all for punishing those that kill allies, so don't get me wrong I actually like the soullight rules atm
This post sums up my attitude also.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Wu
NC needs to move away from anything remotely care-bearish.