Tank Proposition #1

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24-03-06, 18:50
Thanatos

Tank Proposition #1

Today and over the next week we�d like to see your feedback about several possible changes. These propositions concern specific aspects of the class roles. We will add more propositions throughout the week.

GenTank
PSI would be completely removed from the GenTank. This would also remove his ability to use the small heal module.
In return we propose a heal tool. It wouldn�t heal over time but immediately heal a fixed amount. The amount would however be smaller than what a similar heal module would heal over time. This tool would also be limited to a few uses over a certain amount of time.

The mainskill points removed from PSI would be added to DEX, increasing DEX to a maximum of 80. This would reinforce the tank�s position as weapon specialist. He still wouldn�t be able to use the spy�s specialized weapons.
24-03-06, 19:13
Dribble Joy

I'm not too sure about the solo healing differences between the classes, though like I have said in the other threads that healing is a topic for a separate thread/discussion, healing solo (and to an extent in a team) needs to be equal for all classes.
24-03-06, 19:36
awkward silence

Oh id love this!!!!

Possibly viable pistoltanks make me horny :p
24-03-06, 19:39
RogerRamjet

Hmm, im a bit dubious about any skill changes like that.

Cant we work with the skill amounts already in place?
24-03-06, 20:18
giga191

Both excelent ideas if you ask me.
24-03-06, 20:25
Bugs Gunny

Righto, i'm making a new tank now. Bye bye pe nr 3
24-03-06, 20:40
Jagrfelm

Im definitely for it as long as its not possible to use more then 1 of those Tools simultaneously.
24-03-06, 21:20
braydagner

I agree with the stat change, but don't make the heal tool a piece of piss. Maybe +100 HLT every...20-30 seconds...to a tank, thats not that much in a solo fight...but to counter the use of this along with a PPUs heal, make it so that once its used, a heal can not be cast upon that tank until that timer runs out. Maybe...
24-03-06, 21:23
Dribble Joy

It would be probably much easier to have the medkits act like a heal, with the stack. If there's no timer visible it would be very hard to judge when a heal can be re-'casted'.
24-03-06, 21:26
braydagner

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dribble Joy

It would be probably much easier to have the medkits act like a heal, with the stack. If there's no timer visible it would be very hard to judge when a heal can be re-'casted'.

Make the tool give heal bubbles like a casted heal then
24-03-06, 21:34
eprodigy

i'm just wondering.. what is the point ?

this is not really much of a balance change (or even a change at all) ? so he has a bit more agility and uses a tool instead of a spell for healing ?
24-03-06, 21:40
Strife

Quote:

Originally Posted by eprodigy

i'm just wondering.. what is the point ?

this is not really much of a balance change (or even a change at all) ? so he has a bit more agility and uses a tool instead of a spell for healing ?

I agree. Not to turn this into a bitch thread, but i'd rather see them fix bugs that have been around for years than waste their time on something that doesn't really change anything but a icon and animation probably.
24-03-06, 21:43
giga191

Having limited use of a heal is more tactical + the fact that the tank no longer has access to any other psi spells
24-03-06, 21:48
Dribble Joy

All classes should really have access to a proportionately equal heal though.

The other issue with this tool is what about cast times? If the other classes still have to jiggle about and stop running at full pelt inorder to cast, ti's going to be a lot less hassle for the tank. Which seems odd for one of the most hassle free classes allready.
24-03-06, 22:32
R3N3GADE

i love both infact the idea of not having put up with shitty casting is making me grin. but if its time retardent on how much u can use it then the heal needs to be instant
24-03-06, 22:38
awkward silence

Quote:

Originally Posted by eprodigy

i'm just wondering.. what is the point ?

this is not really much of a balance change (or even a change at all) ? so he has a bit more agility and uses a tool instead of a spell for healing ?

IMHO tanks dont need a big balance change (other classes need to be balanced), so i dont really agree with you. And, the less psi (magic IMHO) ingame the better.
24-03-06, 22:55
Androth

Really depends on implementation, I like the idea of streamlining in the class to be more combat efficient. The instant vs having to stop and cast is going to help the tanks who worrie about speed a lot, especially if you can load the injector with like 10 or so. With fixing applied resists all resists this should help put tanks back where they belong as the main wet work guy.

-A
24-03-06, 23:03
Heavyporker

I don't know... heal tool for the gentank sucks, in my opinion.

Why not just give Gentanks a natural healing ability, say, like 1 hp a second, much better than the other classes natural 1 hp every 10 seconds?

And why all into DEX? Why not 5 DEX and 5 INT?

Then they'd be closer to being able to drive a couple of the bigger vehicles without imping/drugging up so much... and still become a fair bit better at using pistols.
24-03-06, 23:11
Archa Ic

Escuse me... 80 dex for a tank? Thats the same as a PE... I am not against it, but if tomrow, beeing a tank with a judge is viable, then i want to be a PE using a ravager, or a Blade of Ceres viably!

What would be the sense of beeing a PE, if tomorow, a tank can use mid rare PC and RC weapons...

The PE would loose its speciality...

So if that happens, if a tank gets 80 to Dex, do something to the PE's Skills... Increase STR a good deal... 10 or 15 points. Or give something to the PE so it has something special still ^^
24-03-06, 23:22
Spermy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archa Ic

Escuse me... 80 dex for a tank? Thats the same as a PE... I am not against it, but if tomrow, beeing a tank with a judge is viable, then i want to be a PE using a ravager, or a Blade of Ceres viably!

What would be the sense of beeing a PE, if tomorow, a tank can use mid rare PC and RC weapons...

The PE would loose its speciality...

So if that happens, if a tank gets 80 to Dex, do something to the PE's Skills... Increase STR a good deal... 10 or 15 points. Or give something to the PE so it has something special still ^^

He gets his dex, but lacks the access to other skills and imps to make him worthwhile. It's fine, deal with it.
24-03-06, 23:30
Dribble Joy

They might be able to use a judge, but then they wouldn't have the same defencive abilities as a PE, so they only might work in teams.
25-03-06, 00:36
Galileo

80 Dex seems a bit high - There are loads of chips with Dex reqs that +INT - So you can now have a Rhino driver/gunner all in one package (not saying thats a bad thing, just saying what will happen).

Also, all DEX imps gives DEX 107 - Thats a one drug set up for a HL using Tank (although Wep Lore might give them a problem).

That being said, if you remove 10 from PSI its got to go somewhere - and adding it to INT brings on a whole new set of issues.
25-03-06, 00:42
Archa Ic

I have one idea... But thats going to be easy to cap... But it in Cons! 110 in cons :D! Or give all tanks a bonus +50 points at creation. That would balance it.
25-03-06, 00:48
msdong

Quote:

Originally Posted by eprodigy

...this is not really much of a balance change (or even a change at all) ? so he has a bit more agility and uses a tool instead of a spell for healing ?

with the possible changes of the tank to get more damage the heal tool is pretty cool because you can use it on others and i guess its much better them a usual tank heal.
25-03-06, 02:01
ZoVoS

imo i would prefer to see stim packs with decent heal, not quite instand but with a very fast rate. a gap between uses, and over dependance on them would result in a drug flash

i dont like the extra points going into dex. but thers not realy much choice

what about meele tanks though... there int would go into what? hack?

maby increase dex by 5 and int by 5

then up wep lore needed for heavy weapons by 25% to compensate alowing meele tanks to become adiquate hackers =\

also making the 30 int needed to drive the better vhcs a little easyer to obtain and lower belts easyer to use (even with the int penelties)
25-03-06, 02:03
eprodigy

Quote:

Originally Posted by awkward silence

IMHO tanks dont need a big balance change (other classes need to be balanced), so i dont really agree with you. And, the less psi (magic IMHO) ingame the better.

i actually agree, but my point was; this doesn't change them so why do it? But yeah less PSI could only be a good thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by msdong

with the possible changes of the tank to get more damage the heal tool is pretty cool because you can use it on others and i guess its much better them a usual tank heal.

mabye i'm missing your point but.. you can use a heal spell on others and according to thanatos "The amount would however be smaller than what a similar heal module would heal over time" ?
25-03-06, 04:00
Bullt

Ok, so you have apparently decided to take away all psi.
Whatever you do don�t put any of those points to INT, those points would be useful for just about 5 min / day (hacking or low lvl poke or something else daft). While, increase in DEX would be something tanks would have use of just about all the time when out leveling or at pvp.
25-03-06, 05:41
Kame

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heavyporker

I don't know... heal tool for the gentank sucks, in my opinion.

Why not just give Gentanks a natural healing ability, say, like 1 hp a second, much better than the other classes natural 1 hp every 10 seconds?

And why all into DEX? Why not 5 DEX and 5 INT?

Then they'd be closer to being able to drive a couple of the bigger vehicles without imping/drugging up so much... and still become a fair bit better at using pistols.

Great idea i think the same a natural heal ability that regens HP and depend on the base CON skill of the tank.
Something like 5hp/sec for a fully cap CON tank. (1hp/sec for every 20 CON lvs.)

If compared to right now ingame if you give tanks the hp regen they would be overpowered, but not even that much.

More INT as well as more DEX is the way to go.

Quote:

...this is not really much of a balance change (or even a change at all) ? so he has a bit more agility and uses a tool instead of a spell for healing ?

Coudlnt say it any better.

The tank needs a FUNDAMENTAL change (as well as other classes) that will make him better then a spy with high CON and HC weapons.

HP REGEN !!!!!!
25-03-06, 08:33
jini

There are two things in this idea:
1. the heal tool idea:
instant healing upto a certain amount of regeneration is apealing but needs a lot of ballancing, since it adds directly to overall health pool, and on demand
2. You remove psi, a somewhat useless feature on a tank, but giving in dex which is a very usefull thing. For instance, the return of the pistol tank, or since now psu is not needed maybe drones (kamis) and the like. These were never meant for tanks
25-03-06, 10:01
Rage

80? Im sure tanks would love it but itsnt that overkill ? ...i was thinking more like to INT.. thats 50 more skill points to work with under INT which caps at what now? 20 ?

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