The Monk

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17-03-06, 17:22
Thanatos

The Monk

Stats:
PSI 100
INT 100
CON 45
DEX 35
STR 20

Possible Professions:
� Inquisitor (APU)
� Field Medic (PPU)
� Preacher (Hybrid)
� Hacker
� Scientist

Initial Class Description:
�Physically, the Psi Monk is at a considerable disadvantage due to his historical evolution. Even with the greatest effort, it is nearly impossible for him to become a good fighter in the traditional sense. In the area of Psi skills, however, all avenues of development are open to him.
Psi Monks were the ruling class in Neocron up until the Ceres Wars. Among other things, they created the genetic blueprints for the GenTanks, who turned the tide of the war in favor of Neocron. After the war was over the morally strengthened populace revolted against the heartless regime of the Psi Monks. The Monks were persecuted and driven underground. Following civil reforms and the introduction of the LawNet, they were rehabilitated and can now once again move freely in the city. Nonetheless, they are still despised � or at the very least distrusted � by the populace.�

How we see the Monk in combat:

The monk in general is so focused on his Psi abilities that he can�t really do anything else combat wise. The 3 main roles for a Psi Monk are the APU, PPU, and Hybrid.

The APU is the prime damage dealer of the Neocron world, no other class can match the amount of devastation a single APU can deal in such a short amount of time to a single target, however since the APU is focused solely on destructive powers his defenses are next to non-existent on his own. Even with the aid of a PPU he�s effectively a glass cannon.

The PPU is the healer and buffer. His role in life is to help others survive. However his powers are such that they act as amplifiers to pre-existing levels in which he has to work with. In that sense he has the potential for high defenses on his own, but not the highest overall.

The Hybrid is basically the Private Eye of the Psi monks, and has devoted his time to gaining roughly equal levels in both defensive and offensive abilities.

Possible changes:

� Reduce PPU self buff capability, making him more vulnerable should change the PvP dynamics.
� Prevent low level buffs/heals from overriding higher level ones.
� Reintroduce Psi aiming.
� Change shelter to block a certain amount of damage, while limiting the number of shelters cast (no perma-shelter).
� Possibly limit the number of buffs active at the same time.
17-03-06, 19:18
james_finn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanatos

Possible changes:

� Reduce PPU self buff capability, making him more vulnerable should change the PvP dynamics.
� Prevent low level buffs/heals from overriding higher level ones.
� Reintroduce Psi aiming.
� Change shelter to block a certain amount of damage, while limiting the number of shelters cast (no perma-shelter).
� Possibly limit the number of buffs active at the same time.

If you do the above - what would the reason be for people to make a PPU? If you make it so that PPUs are not as defensive as they are now, then they will die a lot more often - IMHO I dont think they should, they are the class that should be able to take the large amount of damage that they can. You sacrifice the level of offensive (i.e. you have 0%) to have a 100% defense, the APU is the oposite (100% offense 0% defense) and all the other characters should be a percentage mix making up 100%.

I like the idea to remove "noob buffing" it does make a PPU's life very stressful, so the ability to stop it would be very welcome by all players Im sure. And maybe removing this would enable you to do a small nerf to the defenses to combat that fact (yes I know that noob buffing was the only way to take down a good PPU - but I think it should take lots of runners to kill a PPU).

Reintroducing PSI aiming is a good idea, it would bring back some skill into being both a PPU and APU (hopefulyl with APU this would remove some of the random element of damage that there is to do with some of their spells, holy lightening).

I dont really understand the ideas behind the shelter, maybe this could be expanded upon by one of the devs? Especially the perma shelter bit.

And I also like the idea to limit the number of buffs that can be cast, kind of like a Concentration stat which would only allow 5 or 6 spells to be constantly cast, but surely this will do the oposite of what you are looking to do, it will increase the number of PPUs take to op wars, as there will need to be more to keep the other players alive.

But as far as I can see looking at what has been proposed is to remove the PPU class almost entirely, if we have less defense than a tank then we need some offense like the tank. It just looks like your taking away all that was fun to be a PPU and not actually giving anything in return.
17-03-06, 19:35
.hack//sign

i think the real problem with ppus is when they buff an apu, he is almost as unkillable as the ppu, imo i think you should lower the defensive power that ppu's give to other players,
17-03-06, 19:38
PepsiPlayer

Seeing as a PPU's defensive capability comes from the mana pool and each psi module cast drops the pool, how about having PPU's stay as they are BUT the damage taken affects both the mana and body health pool and there is no defense against this effect, maybe, just another crazy idea.

Same goes for all classes that can use PSI, in some way
17-03-06, 19:38
Seraphin[69]

PPus

PPU are now weak with the new holy heal they don't need any more adjustement...
17-03-06, 19:39
CMaster

Weaken monk armour somewhat, so that APU + PPU primes doesnt have a tank-like resist setup (as they do at the moment).
Leave PPUs hard to kill, otherwise they become first targets and never used.
Weaken Psi-Attack 2 and similar level spells slightly, to make blessed level hybrids have a more suitable level off offence (IE, not equal to a lowtech PE).
Reconsider Para.
17-03-06, 19:47
kurai

Quote:

Originally Posted by .hack//sign

i think the real problem with ppus is when they buff an apu, he is almost as unkillable as the ppu, imo i think you should lower the defensive power that ppu's give to other players,

That, to my mind, is the absolutely central issue to the whole Monkocron plague.

You have all the inherent headaches of the insane old NC1 era Hybrids - it's just built into a runner with four legs instead of two and then magnified a bit more for good measure.

Making the PPU a little more vulnerable is a nice idea, as long as it doesn't go too far and make them utterly pointless. In a multiperson fight it would put more emphasis on the damage dealers giving their PPU a little better protection, rather than, as currently, utterly ignoring their existence till they need an insta heal/godmode topup.

The changes to heals already seem to have made some difference in this regard (but I've only been back ingame for one night since the patch, so a little early to say anything definitive yet ;))
17-03-06, 20:23
l8m0n

Quote:

Possible changesPossible changes:

� Reduce PPU self buff capability, making him more vulnerable should change the PvP dynamics.
� Prevent low level buffs/heals from overriding higher level ones.
� Reintroduce Psi aiming.
� Change shelter to block a certain amount of damage, while limiting the number of shelters cast (no perma-shelter).
� Possibly limit the number of buffs active at the same time.

- If you reduce self buff then ppus will not be viable in PVP and most places for leveling fact.

- Not sure on low level buffing have to think about it.

- leave aiming only + for monks with the nerf

- no perma-shelter = PVP lasting for 10 seconds

- Buffs are allready limited, for example cant have MC and HC buff at same time so is fine as it is.

I think tbh even after the /whine PPUs are allmost to the point of being ballanced i think you should keep holy heal as it is for a few months and see how it goes, but fix tl3 heal soon ;)
17-03-06, 20:37
sanityislost

Kinda like the ideas that are going about, but it would be nice to see

: Monk Armor axed
: Monk PPU and APU Req buffs (APU's being rather crap, giving a small amount)

SiL ..:..
17-03-06, 20:41
onero S

whatever gets done, don't nerf solo apus, in fact, if there is a way to buff solo apus while nerfing the apu/ppu team that would be the way to go.
17-03-06, 20:42
-FN-

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanatos

� Reduce PPU self buff capability, making him more vulnerable should change the PvP dynamics.

Don't agree with this at all. PPUs should be nearly unkillable, but their effect on OTHER players should be moved to a more indirect manner. A PPU carries about 20 high-priced PSI Modules - if they died as often as APUs, nobody would play the PPU as it would be too costly.

Things a PPU does that are good: Resurrection, Combat/Support/Resist Boosts, True Sight, Catharsis, NEW Heals

Things a PPU shouldn't do: Paralysis, Damage Boost - again, more on this in PSI vs TECH - Biodisruption! :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanatos

� Prevent low level buffs/heals from overriding higher level ones.

I can't stress this enough... this is NOT the way to take this! Self-Cast should override Foreign-Cast - that's it. There will still be ways to abuse the buffing-system if you go the quoted route... SELF CAST > FOREIGN CAST - then if a player can't fix it, it is THEIR fault for not bringing the right equipment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanatos

� Reintroduce Psi aiming.

PSI Reticles!? Surely this is the end of Monk-o-cron!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanatos

� Change shelter to block a certain amount of damage, while limiting the number of shelters cast (no perma-shelter).

I don't see this helping anything... shelter is SO easily removed already by Antibuff and if it is changed to blocking X damage, several APU hits would be just as quick, maybe quicker, than a Debuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanatos

� Possibly limit the number of buffs active at the same time.

Don't see why...

-----------------------------

Then on the topic of APUs - they already do the most damage in the game the fastest... they only thing that any player can bear as defense is the shelter, which they also have the power to strip you of... how unbalanced is that!? Take Antibuff and Antishield away from APUs and give similar tech-weapons to another class - unlike the Spirit Mods, implement them so A) the frequency of the weapon/item is as slow as a Resurrect and B) once hit, there is a COUNTDOWN, just like when a Mosquito Drone hits you. Leave Anti-Deflector and Anti-Heal in the APU pool.

And lastly - the monk is hardly frail. He has higher CON than a spy and armor that's better than every other class's. Make all helmets, pants, and boots STR based and remove PSI armor. If Monks had armor and buffs as strong as they are now, Neocron's history would be completely wrong and GenTanks would've never been invented.
17-03-06, 20:47
Kame

Reticule is bad news.

Just make the APUs incredibly fragile.
Make solo APUS totally un-viable.

The APU should be the one guy that stays in the back in OP war, and not in the front like right now.
Making them more fragile so they do not need a reticule, but can still be used for hunting in high lv areas (like DoY tunnel).

Ultimately the ones that plays APU should be those players that can move/dodge great.

Make PSI boosters less effective or nerf the mana regeneration natural ability.

Make it so no hybrid can use DB+Holy Lightning.
17-03-06, 20:48
onero S

Sigh

give monks reticals, won't matter at all.

Don'y nerf ppu survivibiliy more than it is atm, thats overkill

Nerf apu defence with s/d DON'T nerf it when solo.

Balance hybrids with the new PEs, the tradoff should be no stealth for slightly better defence imo.

Give APUs an out of combat healing solution, somthing that breaks on dmg.

Or even perhaps a life drain, anything to make them more real world pvp viable when solo.

Reblance the effect of ppu buffs ON OTHERS don't nerf ppu selfcast more than it is atm.

Edit: And do NOT nerf boosters, thats a dumb way to balance things, and it would only hurt lvling more than it would hurt pvp.
And FN, taking away psi armor won't work, it would be a stupidly big nerf to apus in ALL situations, apus only need a nerf in that ppu spells should not give them the survivibility they do.

Imo, APU+PPU buffs should give around PE selfbuffed defence, so still slightly lower than an unbuffed tank, but only slightly. Anway, make apus a solo viable class just like any other by nerfing apu/ppu teams and even buffing base apus if needed.
17-03-06, 20:58
Zheo

No one complains about an apu or a ppu,

people complain about:

Apu + Ppu team, or hybrid, so nerf the hybrid or lower the defenses so they arent invisible (this may already be done because of heal)

Reduce the buffs that ppu gives other players in terms of casting on others.
So ppus stay the same but when they buff other's they dont make them unkillable.
17-03-06, 21:00
Kame

It isnt dumb when u consider i can bring 100 booster my whole team can cave for hours, and if i bring 100 clips i run out after 30 mins.(30 clips of ANY gun)

Rough estimate :

1 booster 3 = 3 x 400 mana = 1200 mana.

1 holy lightning = 60 mana

1200 mana/60 per cast = 20 HL

20 HL makes defenetly more damage then ANY CLIP of ANY GUN by ANY USER.

The booster weight like 0.2, and most ammo clips are heavier.(sepecially AOE cannons, and plasma)

This is reason enough to reqork the boosters, and would make take them more in line with the gun classes and the fact they have to reload.

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