Neocron Reloaded

Printable View

Show 30 post(s) from this thread on one page

11-03-12, 18:17
flib
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMeleeFreak

There actually is a pretty short list of things that really need to be achieved by NC:R to get it to work in descending priority:

Sort out the Cheats/Hacks/Exploits
Sort out the Netcode
Return to NC1's faction system
Do some people just not understand that porting Neocron to a new engine means that the current netcode and hacks are irrelevant?
Also, isn't the current faction system about the same as NC1?
11-03-12, 18:38
MadMeleeFreak

Quote:

Originally Posted by flib

Do some people just not understand that porting Neocron to a new engine means that the current netcode and hacks are irrelevant?

If so that's a great thing. The biggest problems would be solved in that case. Still that doesn't make my point less valid. Those are the biggest problems NC has as of now. Anything else is tweaking details that some people like to be changed, just as much people like to keep the way they are and the majority doesn't care if stays as is or get's changed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by flib

Also, isn't the current faction system about the same as NC1?

Nope we still have that faction system deviding everything into two alliances, by artificially forcing factions like for instance CM or the crime syndicates (BS, TS) into one of both sides while story wise it would make a lot more sense they would not get involved into the conflict or they'd try to play both sides.

The only thing that was changed was that the DoY factions (apartment-wise) were relocated back to NC again with the 2.2 update.
11-03-12, 18:43
Faid

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMeleeFreak

Luckily you are free to do so in NC. There's a whole lot of energy weapons to choose from. And all of them are viable. It's not like the AK 47 is a guaranteed kill and thus you shall not use any other weapon.

I'd use a Dissy over an AK47 anyday :D It's more of a question of aiming style rather than damage outpit as both weapons do good damage.
11-03-12, 18:48
Drachenpaladin

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMeleeFreak

The only thing that was changed was that the DoY factions (apartment-wise) were relocated back to NC again with the 2.2 update.

Thats not true, the NC-DoY constellation got loosened up a bit with the re-integration of the former DoY Factions into Neocron City.

Next and FA are closer again and so on while Tangent and Biotech are Enemies now, among other changes. (If i remember correct...)

�dit: How come that THN doesn't feature a faction constellation chart? O_o
11-03-12, 19:08
Tratos

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drachenpaladin

�dit: How come that THN doesn't feature a faction constellation chart? O_o

We do :) http://wiki.techhaven.org/Faction

I'm not 100% sure if it's accurate as of the current patch version though.

Also, fantastic news regarding Neocron Reloaded. I hope Kirk and the gang had a productive GDC and have secured some funding to make it a reality.
11-03-12, 19:30
Jaeon
Quote:

Originally Posted by Biglines

This is a fallacy, the point of a niche game like neocron is that it serves a particular interest much better than most other games. Most people that want to play neocron are not interested in "accessible" games like WoW or LoL. While I have no problem with making the game more usable and understandable, cutting out core aspects to please "more" people, will also make the game less attractive for a lot of other people.

True, but that's not really what i meant. If certain core aspects of the game are theoretically good, but once applied to the game end up not being used (or causing more frustration then satisfaction) then i think it needs revision.

The example of the SI - if a feature of the game forces you to stop playing for a few minutes, how is that a good thing? And seriously, i think SI is unique to Neocron and i want it in-game, but it's obviously flawed and in need of revision.

Anther example is the maze that is Industrial Area (although not a core aspect). It's typical Neocron, decayed, mysterious and well... industrial, but it's still a mess and it would benefit from being simplified.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMeleeFreak

Please don't get me wrong. The following isn't meant as a "you're a noob anyways" bash, since I don't know for sure.

Looking at your forum join date suggests that you didn't play NC when it was at it's best. If you started playing at that time you sadly started when things were bad already population wise. A lot of good players and clans had long left the game and most of them left because they disliked the more "streamlined" faction system (leaving us in fact with just two sides to choose from), the massive netcode problems and the growing problem of cheats, hacks, exploits and bugs.

Actually the number of people going because they found the game to be a gankfest or not beginner friendly allways was considerably small in absolute numbers and in relation to those leaving for aforemenioned reasons. Of course when there's just 40 people left playing 4 or 5 leaving has a bigger impact than when the servers are packed with 400+ people running around. And a load of people starting every day. Same goes for gankers: When there's only 40 people left a handfull of cheaters/hackers/gankers has a really HUGE impact. But deducing a gameplay problem from it is far fetched.

If there is a problem with NC's Gameplay then it's the fact that it is highly dependant on the number of active players on a server. Below about 150 people online things simply start to collapse. But this is a problem all MMOs that I'd consider good MMOs share, which are those that to a big extend encourage in some parts even force you to team up with other players. MMO's shouldn't be designed towards loners, thus I wouldn't change the Gameplay even though it doesn't work out with low pops.

And even if making the Gameplay more loner friendly (and most suggestions you and other's made to protect people from being shot at ultimately are only needed if you plan to be playing alone) would bring in more players the only one winning from it is the developer/publisher as he gets more money. But what's the benefit for other player's/Clans if half the population simply does things on their own and just for their own good? All we get is more people occupying level spots and maybe some more victims for "ganking".

There actually is a pretty short list of things that really need to be achieved by NC:R to get it to work in descending priority:

Sort out the Cheats/Hacks/Exploits
Sort out the Netcode
Return to NC1's faction system
Anything else is object to discussion but honestly doesn't matter much anymore if those three points are completed. You can allways argue about details of the balancing. But balancing in MMOs never is a finished job. If anything at all I've learned that one in the past ten years of playing MMOs. Also Balance allways is among the top three discussion topics (the other two being cheaters and gankers) but most times it's not even among the top ten reasons of people to leave.
Well, i still enjoyed NC with servers peaking at 100% sometimes, and it was cool. I've got 4 capped characters, 3 with WoC+ and i'm currently going on a 2nd account. Not a pro, but not a noob as well.

I agree with the priority list, it's clear those are the worst offenders. But with today's network speed and computing power and dev-friendly engines, i think it's an easy fix.

Faction wise i only have experience with the current 2 sided version and i've come to love the system as is. If it was better and NC:R can use that, then Nukklear should definitely go for it.
11-03-12, 19:50
Drachenpaladin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaeon

The example of the SI - if a feature of the game forces you to stop playing for a few minutes, how is that a good thing? And seriously, i think SI is unique to Neocron and i want it in-game, but it's obviously flawed and in need of revision.

Anther example is the maze that is Industrial Area (although not a core aspect). It's typical Neocron, decayed, mysterious and well... industrial, but it's still a mess and it would benefit from being simplified.

It doesn't necessary stop you from playing the game, it just limits your actions a bit. A typical penalty for dying and cost for convenience.

And about the OZ or what i think you call maze: No, here simplifying would be bad i think. If its too confusing you need to improve your sense of direction :p
Also there is the NAV-System if you are hopelessly lost. News can use this and the more often they visit it the more they will get used to it.
11-03-12, 20:09
William Antrim

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volca

No, I was talking about AK. I'm OK with ballistic weapons. I would have prefered ballistic weapons that don't come from 20th century.

There are shotguns and 9mm pistols in game too. Plenty of them. If something works then why try to change it. Knives have been around for donkeys years (thousands of years in fact) and axes too. We also have swords in Neocron. Do you want to get rid of those too?

Lets be fair here. Weapons are almost as old as mankind itself. Without a variety of weapons NC would be boring. I am all for keeping the weapons personally and adding lots of new ones if they can just find a sensible way of balancing them.
11-03-12, 20:11
Biglines

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaeon

The example of the SI - if a feature of the game forces you to stop playing for a few minutes, how is that a good thing? And seriously, i think SI is unique to Neocron and i want it in-game, but it's obviously flawed and in need of revision.

Like Drachen said, it doesn't stop you from playing the game, it just makes sure there is a big penalty to dieing. If SI wouldn't stop you from fighting, people would just gr back into the same zone, making teamwork almost pointless, making opfights pointless, making killing pointless, making the game pointless :p
11-03-12, 20:14
Biglines

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaeon

Anther example is the maze that is Industrial Area (although not a core aspect). It's typical Neocron, decayed, mysterious and well... industrial, but it's still a mess and it would benefit from being simplified.

NOOOOO... this is the whole bloody point of an immersive world, the fact that you can walk around discovering things noone else has discovered, or where getting from point A to B is actually an accomplishment. The biggest reason games get boring is because nowadays games are made so you have to invest no intelligence whatsoever in your "adventuring".
11-03-12, 20:33
Volca

Quote:

There are shotguns and 9mm pistols in game too. Plenty of them. If something works then why try to change it. Knives have been around for donkeys years (thousands of years in fact) and axes too. We also have swords in Neocron. Do you want to get rid of those too?

You're right. I don't want to remove these weapon but for example a simple sword must be less powerful than a lightsaber.

Quote:

Lets be fair here. Weapons are almost as old as mankind itself. Without a variety of weapons NC would be boring. I am all for keeping the weapons personally and adding lots of new ones if they can just find a sensible way of balancing them.

I agree.
11-03-12, 20:35
Drachenpaladin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volca

You're right. I don't want to remove these weapon but for example a simple sword must be less powerful than a lightsaber.

I just don't see why.
11-03-12, 20:43
Volca

open your eyes
11-03-12, 20:48
Dribble Joy

CM is actually more neutral than in NC1. Back then we were allied to only city factions (all the corporations basically, but not CA). Our only hostiles were BD and TG. Then we went to a highly neutral system were we neutral to just about everyone. Now we have one enemy and one ally on each 'side'.

edit//
Why would a sword be better than a light saber? Well what if it's a crap light saber?

If a light saber is good, does that suddenly stop swords from being able to cut people's faces off?
11-03-12, 20:56
Jaeon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biglines

NOOOOO... this is the whole bloody point of an immersive world, the fact that you can walk around discovering things noone else has discovered, or where getting from point A to B is actually an accomplishment. The biggest reason games get boring is because nowadays games are made so you have to invest no intelligence whatsoever in your "adventuring".

Ok, i don't consider things to be that black or white, but i have to admit most games today have been "dumbed down". I remember the old games where defeating a boss was hardcore difficult and usually ended in broken console controllers :o. Nowadays even on "Nightmare" or "uber" difficulty only takes a couple of tries.

Still, i believe there's a difference between simple and well designed. Systems can be intricate without being confusing. It takes a good level designer to do that. One that uses subtle reference points, good synaletics, and environment interaction.

Also, all my points along this thread have been made towards a money making game that appeals to both the current fans but also opens up room to new players. Maybe it's impossible to do so, but looking to the bigger picture i'd say that if NC makes it's makers money, they can keep on improving and adding content.

Otherwise you can have this really special game that is so tailored to a niche audience that it can't support itself because there simply aren't enough paying customers to inject money into it.

Surely you understand this and perhaps you'll see where i'm trying to get at. It's not about making NC equal to other dumbed down games. It's about making it in a way that appeals to a broader paying audience, so we, the fans, can keep playing it and getting new content, support and ultimately enjoyment.
11-03-12, 21:42
Dribble Joy

We get that, but the problems NC has had with the player base have not been to do with the overall game play but with the quality of the experience.
11-03-12, 22:26
Volca

Quote:

Why would a sword be better than a light saber? Well what if it's a crap light saber?

I'm not talking about quality.

Quote:

If a light saber is good, does that suddenly stop swords from being able to cut people's faces off?

No, and I never said that.
11-03-12, 23:31
Geist-[uTw]-

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volca

Oh, and change WOC weapons. I can't understand why an AK47 is more powerful than an energic weapon. We are in 28th century, not 20th.

/signed

It�s probably a waste of breath (don�t think that KK (if they survive) will change it) but i can understand Volca's point of view.

Low-Tech weapons of the 22th century (with advanced ammunition) are even to the end-game weapons of the 28th century? Ridiculous!

Yes it�s technology from the old ceres discs of the 22th century, but if we read the storyline again the great Mercando studied the data of the discs and invented a energy weapon for Thor. It�s a little bit funny to question the storyline of a game :D but does anyone think Thor raided Neocron with AK47's rifles and 9mm pistols? "Hm...i could use my weapons made of steel and wood or i give that plasma weapons a try for attack Neocron" ;)

I would prefer High-Tech WoC-Weapons, WoC-psi-spells etc which are based upon the wisdom of Ceres (like that energy weapon). The Juggernaut Crossbow Pistol is such an example for this. One of the oldest weapons of mankind, but here it�s highly advanced and new designed for end-game content.

My voice goes for a redesign of WoC weapons (the WoC-power armors are fine).
12-03-12, 00:12
Dribble Joy

Like the xbow, the AK and ceres pistol are updated versions of older tech (new materials and ammo allowing more power).
12-03-12, 00:21
Kamuix99

I know that Neocron is at basic an RPG with some gun models and level-adapted numbers. But I'd really appreciate an more "realistic" approach. This was one thing that totally ticked me off at Fallen Earth before - their ridiculous mixture of Firearms and lack of apropriate Damage system. Complex games have various damage and armor stats, which devs should make use off to give an more appealing FPS experience.

Also energy weapons will work at a different principle then projectile weapons and will be affected differently by enviroment and barriers.
12-03-12, 06:39
flib

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamuix99

I know that Neocron is at basic an RPG with some gun models and level-adapted numbers. But I'd really appreciate an more "realistic" approach. This was one thing that totally ticked me off at Fallen Earth before - their ridiculous mixture of Firearms and lack of apropriate Damage system. Complex games have various damage and armor stats, which devs should make use off to give an more appealing FPS experience.

Also energy weapons will work at a different principle then projectile weapons and will be affected differently by enviroment and barriers.

Fuck realism. If I wanted a more realistic post-apocalyptic experience, I'd go play Fallout 3 or someshit.
Neocron has never been about realism. I'll take a fun and interesting experience over a bland, boring-ass "realistic" game anyday.
12-03-12, 10:08
Kamuix99

Quote:

Originally Posted by flib

Fuck realism. If I wanted a more realistic post-apocalyptic experience, I'd go play Fallout 3 or someshit.
Neocron has never been about realism. I'll take a fun and interesting experience over a bland, boring-ass "realistic" game anyday.

Luckily it's just your opinion bro. Cause otherwise we wouldn't play with Pistols, Rifles and so on but rather with Magic dragonsword fighting Orks.
12-03-12, 11:24
Dribble Joy

Well, there's a difference between bat-shit mental detachment from reality and pushing the limits of what's possible.

Why is a Wyatt Earp so much more powerful than a Lazar pistol when they use the same ammo? It's simply a game mechanic, it doesn't make much sense, but it doesn't get in the way of the appearance of realism.
12-03-12, 12:08
Kamuix99

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dribble Joy

Well, there's a difference between bat-shit mental detachment from reality and pushing the limits of what's possible.

Why is a Wyatt Earp so much more powerful than a Lazar pistol when they use the same ammo? It's simply a game mechanic, it doesn't make much sense, but it doesn't get in the way of the appearance of realism.

That is probably the fitting word "appearance of realism".
I'm not talking about correctly simulated weapon physics - for obviously nobody is in posession of an Plasma or Fusion rifle (not to speak of Psi module) to measure their Energetic performance. I'm talking about plausible levels of ingame-performance and according armor.

An logic indicator would be the Ammunition, like 9mm Para < 5,7x28mm < 10mm Auto
12-03-12, 21:39
Setlec

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamuix99

That is probably the fitting word "appearance of realism".
I'm not talking about correctly simulated weapon physics - for obviously nobody is in posession of an Plasma or Fusion rifle (not to speak of Psi module) to measure their Energetic performance. I'm talking about plausible levels of ingame-performance and according armor.

An logic indicator would be the Ammunition, like 9mm Para < 5,7x28mm < 10mm Auto

B.U.Tifully said!

NC isn't realistic, they've monks using a psi module to cast fire, lightning! For crying out loud! want some realism BF3 other games will surely be your games! but where is the fun in that realism or surrealism? NC is fun with its environments design, game mechanics and stuff. the game required also teamwork and not only gears or weapons or the number of kills that you have got!
12-03-12, 21:41
gamefreak

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamuix99

An logic indicator would be the Ammunition, like 9mm Para < 5,7x28mm < 10mm Auto

Number one on the priority list for NCR this !!!!!1one
12-03-12, 21:49
Nadja [Mars]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Setlec

B.U.Tifully said!
(...) want some realism BF3 other games (...)

Agree.
Isnt it more about how-to-play-feeling and ingame-atmosphere than about realism?
For me it definitely is.

btw .. ingame-atmosphere of NC is unmatched until now. imho
:)
13-03-12, 00:32
elGringo

I dont want to spoil the party, but if I was you guys, I'd be careful with getting hopes up too high just yet.

We've seen NC2 that was a refurbished NC1 with some content addition and NC3, which (for a reason) is no longer refered to as such - instead NC:Reloaded - currently appears to be a recycled version of NC2 at best... using existing assets to quickly mash up a f2p game that'll be found in company of other subprime, casual & trash games at http://www.prosiebengames.de/ . It's the 'publisher' (a TV-channels game venture to be precise) that is featured in the Nukklear trailer with ads in front of medicare.

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/5137/bild5lj.jpg

I always wished to see a strong successor to the original Neocron one day... on a engine thats en par with AAA multiplayer titles and produced with according funding and staff numbers. I know it will be seen as premature fatalism, given that the game is probably still in very early development stages... but by the looks, NC3, it wont be. Not by a long shot. If it gets close to the immersive gameplay Neocron once had to offer I'll be most pleasently suprised.

I any case, I hope I'm wrong and I wish KK good luck with their new ventures.
13-03-12, 01:04
Kamuix99

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadja [Mars]

Agree.
Isnt it more about how-to-play-feeling and ingame-atmosphere than about realism?
For me it definitely is.

btw .. ingame-atmosphere of NC is unmatched until now. imho
:)

Well, if I really would want realism, BF3 or similar Hollywood Hooray crap would be the last thing that I would play. ;)

So once again, for Neocron the appearance of realism or the relation of equipment is an important aspect for game atmosphere. I favor the bolt action rifle over the assault rifle model any day, simply because the atmospheric experience is so much better.
13-03-12, 01:38
Biglines

Quote:

Originally Posted by elGringo

I dont want to spoil the party, but if I was you guys, I'd be careful with getting hopes up too high just yet.

We've seen NC2 that was a refurbished NC1 with some content addition and NC3, which (for a reason) is no longer refered to as such - instead NC:Reloaded - currently appears to be a recycled version of NC2 at best... using existing assets to quickly mash up a f2p game that'll be found in company of other subprime, casual & trash games at http://www.prosiebengames.de/ . It's the 'publisher' (a TV-channels game venture to be precise) that is featured in the Nukklear trailer with ads in front of medicare.

I always wished to see a strong successor to the original Neocron one day... on a engine thats en par with AAA multiplayer titles and produced with according funding and staff numbers. I know it will be seen as premature fatalism, given that the game is probably still in very early development stages... but by the looks, NC3, it wont be. Not by a long shot. If it gets close to the immersive gameplay Neocron once had to offer I'll be most pleasently suprised.

I any case, I hope I'm wrong and I wish KK good luck with their new ventures.

We know, they never even pretended it to be anything else than a "reloaded" version of 1 and 2...

Show 30 post(s) from this thread on one page