there, I fixed it for you ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by flib
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there, I fixed it for you ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by flib
I think youve finally understood the point im making biglines.
The game in its currrent state..... with all of the ten people who play it is beyond broken. Its the problems described in previous posts that have made the game this way. Now I would like to see a complete overhaul of these problems and have things go "back to how they used to be" to coin a well used phrase.
Previous approaches to balancing have been akin to doing brain surgery with a sledgehammer. The game in its current state is screwed completely, hence why noone hardly plays. Its a sorry state of affairs but it is what it is. The populations at login screen tell anyone (teary eyed and nostalgic enough to remember the good old days) all they need to know about current game play. We dont need a reminder of how bad it is now.
As i said in one of my first posts it has got to this stage and its a bit late for the game as is. What I want is to not see history repeat itself. I couldnt care how it is now, its not an issue to me. I dont want to see it come crashing down a second time.
This is why they should change drugs so they only give the major stats (dex str psi con and int) which will make it much easier to tell whos hacking and generally make the game more fun ofc. I remember once some guy was basically teleporting around and everybody thought he was hacking, but he said he was just using drugs... so i tried the drugs he listed and WHAM! i was teleporting to... for about 10-15mins. And ofc recently I tried a load of wep lore drugs and got an instant aim on the dev for a similar time. Its ridiculous how enough drugs is actually more like hacking than most hacks. Thus the either the aforementioned solution or else limit the amount you can use at once to say 2 or 3Quote:
Originally Posted by Dribble Joy
Depends, I didn't get at first that you were talking about some point in the past, as I don't get the relevance (and still don't), I've tried to stay in the realistic point from which balance will be looked at (if at all, I hope they completely restart and add new classes/change how classes work for nc3).Quote:
Originally Posted by William Antrim
I really really don't see the point of going back to some arbitrary point in time and somehow try to balance from that, as the game was never balanced, so the logical point of discussion should be the current state, as Noone can remember the exact balance at any other point in the game (aside from extremes like monkocron) and the balance was never any good anyway.
And tbh, The vast majority of people who quit, didn't quit because the game was unbalanced, they have quit because of the cheaters and absolutely no change whatsoever in this respect from the devs.
(one comment, aimed at anyone who thinks the balance is fucked: Only say anything if you have actually tried all those classes for a while in the current game. If you're only a pistol pe and you lose all the time, this doesn't signify imbalance if you would have lost all the time with any other class too ;) However if you always win with a dissy spy, and always lose with a pistol spy, then it's unbalanced.)
I agree that certain overpowered drugs like redflash and para-x should be balanced more.Quote:
Originally Posted by DIABLO666
lol @ this thread still
Simple fact: balence is impossible.
In games like MMO's with so many different classes and spells/weapons it is NOT possible to have balence, it simply isn't. Even big games with billions of dollors dumped into them and is patched all the time (warcraft is the best example) it is not possible to have balence, the best you can hope for is obvious overpowered things can be brought closer to par with others and vice versa. The current underpowered class combos, apu's and pistols (pistols mainly due to pe's), were nerfed because they were very powerful in the past. They may have been over nerfed but that is normal for any game, there is simplely not enough dev power/time to continuely try to balence things.
IF and WHEN the neocron dev team has the resources to patch the game regularly THEN what classes require more fine tuning in there balence will actually matter, but as of now the whole arguement is a waste of time. By this point the dev team is well aware of what needs to be changed and posting about it non stop on the forum will result in nothing more then wasting the MOD's time having to read it all and wasting your breath arguing about something in which there is no winner.
By this point we ALL know what needs to be changed, including the dev team, and it will be addressed when and if the dev team has the resources to do so.
go genji.
actually agree, except you seem to think that pointless discussions don't belong on this forum? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Genji
clean hands are happy hands!!!
Utter bullshit, the teleporting around that Id had seen was not drugs, I won't get into it, also insta aiming with a dev, unless there is some sort of flip point where points start matter more I can't see 10 - 20 or even 50 points more mattering....Quote:
Originally Posted by DIABLO666
Not at all, it wasn't actual teleporting he was just going so quickly that it looked like he was due to client lag, and just go and buy every drug which gives you wep lore there is, and you will get a more or less instant aim, ofc its not completely instant but its as little as makes no difference.
Sure i already did and even lommed a little, it was better but it was not like you could use a dev like some hacking twats do.Quote:
Originally Posted by DIABLO666
I have to disagree on the people quitting over hackers thing. I only knew of 2 hackers on uranus from way back when. They actually admitted to hacking, there have been numerous videos crop up on youtube over the years displaying said hacks in game and the people who found them. However anti cheat software and some paid gm's with proper powers over the client base and some anti cheat software will lessen the effect these script kiddies have.
The fundamental basics of the game logic and the division of power between classes (and therefore the fun to play the class - which is the base element of any mmo) needs to be addressed first and foremost.
When there is a test server up and running with something akin to balance of classes (Genji is spot on - even warcraft cant bring full balance - damn frost mages) then the game will begin to be something of a product.
Biglines have you ever heard the term shutting the door when the horse has bolted? Its a phrase in england we use to describe a situation that is probably already beyond hope. Nc in its current state in my opinion is in this state. We used to have bigger populations - ironing out what made them leave is the same as finding ways to bring them back and this is what should be happening with nc3, not worrying about what to do with the game in its current state.
As far as i am concerned you can stick a fork in the current manifestation. I just dont want to see the next version suffer the same cruel fate.
It's true that while I was here earlier, it was never long, aside from when I started playing seriously a few months after the last patch (I don't count the failpatch), around 3-4 years ago. So I don't know anything really about the state before, except from those people I have played with. However in that time (3-4 years), all the people that have left, have left because of cheats, or because they got bored with the game. I have never seen people leave because of balance, but that could be cuz the people playing now are used to it, and the current balance really isnt bad as long as u dont want to play the completely gimped classes.Quote:
Originally Posted by William Antrim
I completely agree that is not smart for a future nc3 to be based on the current balance (In the constructive part of one of my longer posts I voted for a rewrite of the class/skill system). The reason for taking the current system as input for any discussion, is because it's a state that can be honestly talked about, because it can be tested, while remembering states the game was in, is bound to either be rose tinted, or worse than it really was.
To me real balance, is when every class can be fun to play. No different classes should be totally equal to eachother, but instead complement other classes. (Obvious combination being for example tank/ppu couples). That said, skill should always win, though that skill can also be in teamplay, tactics or spending time building stuff or finding stuff or making the perfect setup to gain that little edge.
Presently I love playing my apu, it's a fun class to play in duels, although some of that enjoyment in of course based on pure arrogance in the fact that I can kill some of the better pvp'ers on my apu (I usually can't kill the same players on other chars :P) even though the apu is considered to be underpowered. Of course an apu is completely useless for ganking or large group fights, as it dies if it can't dodge, but for duels it's a ton of fun :D (and no I don't clip on my apu in duels)
The same for my melee tank, in equal duels, I stood a good chance of defeating a lot of setups, but in many many different situations (such as opwars or group fights) a melee tank is utterly useless.
Indeed hacking will be better but its a very close match if you have a very wep lore centred build with all the drugs possible for it and a lot of wep lor implants,Quote:
Originally Posted by LiL T
most hacking people are incredibly and utterly shit at the game without hacks. When the leader of one of the clans asked some of the hackers in that clan to stop hacking, that person went from being able to take on 5 people on his own, to dieing to my apu. (as in, instead of hitting every shot with a devourer, he managed to get in one, the whole fight)
Thats why they hack.
Also you have to remember that in the current game the vast majority of players have at least 3/4 capped chars per account. Nowadays most will have at least 2 accounts i am guessing with up to 8 fully capped/geared/wocced chars on them ready for pvp.
One of the great things about neocron is that there isnt a massive grind to get your gear for pvp (a la wow et al) and so it is easy to get your capped "flavour of the patch" char out and start smashing fools with them. My brother and I when we played alot had 3 accounts between 2 of us and on each slot was either a tradeskiller or a capped/wocced pvp char. We had 10 players between us that we could pick from to go op fighting, ganking or whatever else.
There arent really any genuine noobs in nc, the only noobs ive seen in the last few years is rerolls and server moves. None actually first timers "just picked up the trial" and what not.
This game needs to appeal to them in the first instance as if the vets see nc in its former glory (shit graphics aside) and they can immerse themselves in this world we have all come to know and love then they will flock back in their hundreds, pain easers in hand; ready to rekindle old grievances and evade Nid and his forum hammer once more.
The halls of plaza 1 will once more echo with the sounds of "OMG KOS!!!!11" like it once did and I and all of you other wonderful people who are still here lurking (yeah that you means you mr fang) will happily come back to this game, leave your girlfriends and possilby your jobs or at least go without shaving a few times a week, or breakfast in order to recapture the nostalgia of old. We will run around the aggressor sewers once again with the crack crack of our budget colts staring in wonder at the guy with the 4 Slot Tangent Wastelands Eagle (he couldnt get 5 cos the constructor wasnt capped :rolleyes:) and we will drop our knives when we die or spend that last 2-3 seconds putting all our good shit into our backpacks.At least then there is less chance of it falling on the floor.
We will scream for a hacker when we find a belt and we will scream for a tank when a pker comes along. We will hope for a capped char but all we will get is a level 45 tank in his first set of pa thinking he will get lucky with his tangent plasma cannon and we will sigh and think to ourselves.... yes
This is NEOCRON!
Mostly because I was in cat, but I've seen more than 20 genuine "noobs", as in people that didn't play before, but granted, most of them left because they got tired of the cheating.Quote:
Originally Posted by William Antrim
Great story, man.Quote:
Originally Posted by William Antrim
agreed. cool story bro.
I made a new char a year or two ago and went on the help channel and pretended to be new for about 5 mins. Some random guy I never noticed before spoted me straight away and precedded to try to explain everything I could need to know to get started and made me follow him out of nc where he spawned a glider and flew me around to tag gr's and show me the cooler stuff as well as good leveling spot for when I got higher level.
This was not my intention, I was actually tring to mess with a certain someone but once we got started I didn't wanna disapoint the guy so I just went with it. This experience still gives me a glimer of hope as I would have never expected this sort of thing to happen with the majority of/type of people that still play.
I guess that just shows that "LAWL L2P SCRUB" just attracts "ROFLPWNED NOOB L2P"
Speaking of new chars, etc.
An idea for character creation in NC3.
Each account starts with 1 character slot (usual 4 eventually).
You must build your character to halfway lvl'd before another slot opens up (your char is a teenager and can now have kids).
This would only need to be done once, as first char can have 3 kids.
If the nc3 world is as contaminated as nc1, then noone can have children naturally, so this is where everyone would have to visit IVF clinics located in major cities.
Females could run into a room and sit on a gyno char, with styrups.
Males could run into a room full of pornos and sit on the normal chair in there.
Once seated, a design your baby menu comes up, where you create your next character.
Once this is done, a new char gets spat out and is a very small version of what you chose (a child).
This child follows you around for its first few levels (can be killed in this time and you have to start again.) these levels can be lvl'd very quickly, you continue playing your adult, and the child sees you kill a couple things and learns what to do.
The child can then stop following and logoff to its apt. it is on its own.
All characters should start off as children and as the levels go up, they get a little bigger.
Comments please!
wtf...
uhm, I don't like the sims...Quote:
Originally Posted by yavimaya
I could list all the different things that it would negatively impact, but I don't want to be rude to u, and there's no point really, just one comment:
no tnx
list away biglines, i asked for comments :P
It wouldnt really be sims like, just a more roleplay orientated way of making a new char.
- don't see how skill (level) and age are related
- can't level a few at the same time (I prefer to level two because I usually play more than my mates, and as such i need 2 to remain at the same level as my mates)
- why have children if genereplication is around? (explained as instant creation of a body in which consciousness is downloaded, not teleportation), just create a black body
- immediately some douches will start "roleplaying" the "sex" emoticon in politically incorrect ways.
- if children, why not elderly? (note; i think both are a bad idea in a violence oriented game like neocron)
- like before, it's too much like the sims for my comfort... i wanna be badass from the start, not some child.
1. It would be per account only, no reason you couldnt have multiple accounts, basically everything would be same as now, except your first char would have to sit in your first slot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biglines
2. I see your point, but generepping is basically cloning of an existing person using stored DNA, creation of a new character can be seperated easily.
3. "child sex".... well its only an avatar, not like little there arent little kids running around saying sex these days irl, and in a more extreme future, it may still happen. :P
4. Very good point, i wouldnt want too see characters "age" as such, but only because it would mean there is a point that they have to die completely.
However neocron is meant to be a cruel and unforgiving world .... and also started out as an adult orientated game, not the PG crap we have these days with clothed strippers. I want to see it go back in that direction. no reason children cant be killed.
5. You arent badass from the start now....
it would only be a graphical representation of your level.
yavimaya: you, sir, have been playing too much fallout 3 i guess....
@Flib: i always enjoy your posts... lol'd so hard that i almost wet my pants!
never played it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Setlec
fallout 3 only has a small section where u choose ur skills as a toddler, then a short sequence of a birthday party, and then ur an adult. Not really the same, but I guess that would be possible (still don't get the point, but possible)Quote:
Originally Posted by Setlec
btw, the biggest problem i have with it is the fact that u can't have multiple chars leveling at the same time (and multiple accounts is usually impossible on f2p, and expensive on a new p2p mmo like nc3 would probably be).
and of course just not seeing the point of roleplaying a child when its perfectly possible to start out in an adult body.