The Big Weapon Study [unfinished]

no not more but i was Hc Pe udn it works fine
( and an hc pe is high tech )
only prob was the new Imp Komma Stats therfore you cant use the hc3er Pe Pa or the 4 hc Pe pa
an without these pas the Hc Pe is way to nerfet ( sadly)
only the regatns Pa strg works but sadly it is Melee with therfore means 20 hc skill lower

if Kk ever fix that imp stats up so an Ppe can get strg90 ( for 4er hc Pa ) i will lom back to hc Pe

lol yo never where the first rezzer pe rofl :lol:
thats setup exist long ago before nc2 but anywhere !

it onyl shows that the an pe good skillet can play sucsessfully varouis setups not only an pc xbow

evryone who said that na rezzor/ionic Pe is an cheater had no clue about that clas and there abitllitys btw

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Originally Posted by Dribble Joy

Not read the whole thread.

Way to little data and which weapon system was used? How much skilling?

I'm assuming that weapons of a single type was tested, Ie. uzi, raygun rifle or laser cannon.

This need to be completely redone using as many examples as possible, and present each main weapon system (pistols rifle, heavy, melee and APU) on separate graphs so each in dividual sub-type can be compared to the others.
Also I'd recommend not using skills set so that you reach 100% dmg as this is going to cause issues. A set skill amount will then give a better dmg/tl curve.
Of course this won't paint a true picture as people with a higher tl weapon will generally have higher sub-skill values.

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Please read the inital post and actually look at the spreadsheet. You can pull your own individual graphs out of that. You can see what weapons were used (basically, what rare weapons people who tested with me had available. All the pistols people actually use, were sadly not included in this). Skilling was NOT so that all did 100% damage. Skilling was left as is, with the damage factors then normalised to show what it would be like IF damage was 100%. This study in itself doesn't consider the effect of skilling, ease of use etc etc - it looks at the pure damage output of the weapons alone - you obvioulsy have to think about how you use this data.


Matan: No, nanite heals were developed for tanks. Spies not being able to use it is fine. IT means that spies have a choice between A: good resists against psi, but worse healing or B: Better healing, no advantage vs monks. Spies shouldn't be able to just ignore those 20 levels they have in psi and be just as strong.

Motor: That setup was good for a while, but then they tweaked a few things (notablly adding about 40% to every PPU req. I've asked for this to be removed but no luck). The defense benefits from slightly improved psi are less than those from sticking in resist chips now.

Also: Yumm, Dessert race track... (see location of above poster). Now I'm hungry!

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Originally Posted by jini

There is a problem with DAMAGE with SOME burst weapons. It's that simple.

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There is a problem with with ALL burst weapons. It's that simple.

If the CS misses just 1 plasma bullet each burst thats a 25% damage loss. And that is something you just don't get with single shot guns. And you simply can not compensate this problem with a better aiming. Why use a shitty gun when you can use a much better one?

And now, jini and Nabbl. Get a room or cut the crap. Please. :lol:

The videos nabbl wanted to show (I think). Will remove them if Nabbl doesn't want me hosting them.

http://neocron.linxsoft.co.uk/videos...PU_Ansicht.avi
http://neocron.linxsoft.co.uk/videos...dmg%20test.avi

Showing just how wrong the xbow is.
And could everybody just ignore Jini. He doesn't like this study. Thats fine. Let him not like it and we can discuss the other issues. We've seen him be stubborn even when proved wrong before...

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Originally Posted by CMaster

The videos nabbl wanted to show (I think). Will remove them if Nabbl doesn't want me hosting them.

http://neocron.linxsoft.co.uk/videos...PU_Ansicht.avi
http://neocron.linxsoft.co.uk/videos...dmg%20test.avi

Showing just how wrong the xbow is.
And could everybody just ignore Jini. He doesn't like this study. Thats fine. Let him not like it and we can discuss the other issues. We've seen him be stubborn even when proved wrong before...

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its ok cmaster, they are not my movies either ;)

btw was yuuki the first rezzing pe in evo2.2 afaik. then i did it slightly improved with fertigo on terra. (jini asked me about the setup) i won the LMS on Terra with this char. :)

i played him with a termi.

Is there way to stop stupid people posting in this thread? I think everyone (bar one) agrees on the issue at hand. Plenty of weapons need a nerf and plenty more a boost.

I DO like the idea of making xbows spy only, I think the freeman and the ceres handgun or whatever its called should be a pe weapon. They need to be balanced in line with their tech level though.

I also think that Ion cannons should have a TC requirement, in fact ALL ionic weapons should imo. You get them from Hacknet, therefore in my mind they are HI-TECH!

I would like to see the return of low tech pes also, this should be a viable class, with a balancing of the low tech weapons (hc as well as rc/pc) I think that they should be more viable. Their weapons need a small tweak and possibly their implants as I would like to see them be able to just about use inq3. (Perhaps a small bonus on strength on the moveon would accomplish this).

Speedgun pes would be nice too. The very essence of a pe should be his ability to master the low tech weaponry, he should have to spend his points carefully on hi-tech however and so far I like the way that the pes/spies are slightly separate. Its not a huge gap but its enough to provide variety.

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Originally Posted by nabbl

btw was yuuki the first rezzing pe in evo2.2 afaik. then i did it slightly improved with fertigo on terra. (jini asked me about the setup) i won the LMS on Terra with this char. :)

i played him with a termi.

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Yes, then I wasn't the first one of 2.2, but I had tried that setup you claim I asked you (I don't need to ask for setups, I just make them my on my own) already from the trial server. And that was after that patch where even spies could Rez. In fact this is where I had tried a h-c PE, tested some Antinanites, made a cool Apu and more.

To end that bullshit about burst weapons once and for all: I am giving 100k to him that will prove me that burst accuracy is 75% like Sork and the rest claim. Because if that is true and I am killing people on my FL spy on that accuracy, then I am clearly the besten ever existed on terra bar none. I can do as many experiments you like. I believe accuracy of FL is 95%+ but we can try it any time you like

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Originally Posted by jini

To end that bullshit about burst weapons once and for all: I am giving 100k to him that will prove me that burst accuracy is 75% like Sork and the rest claim. Because if that is true and I am killing people on my FL spy on that accuracy, then I am clearly the besten ever existed on terra bar none. I can do as many experiments you like. I believe accuracy of FL is 95%+ but we can try it any time you like

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i posted the thing with FL before. im using it with my spy too because its the a burst weapon without that high dmg loss. (like AK or reaper too)

its because of the Accuracy and frequency of FL. its the same with AK or the reaper. the rifles have the highest accuracy, so your crosshair keeps closed on the enemy. aiming is very easy with them, so the dmg loss isnt that big.

but then test pistol burst weapons. every enemy who is like 3 meters away and your crosshair isnt closed completely (it cant be closed at higher range) the shots go into the ground or in the air. thats the problem with the slasher: u got your aim on the enemy, but it isnt completely closed because of range and low pistol accuracy. with a singleshot weapon like the craftmans dream, it wouldnt be a problem, because your nails would hit the enemy even without fully closed reticle. but the shots from the slasher doesnt hit to 100%.

i dont really know how to explain this in english. but after several hours of testing and so on im sure about that.

yes, well, Nabbl you are now telling us a completelly different story. That means that burst rifles are all fine and we now have to test burst pistols. That's a whole new shit you are now telling us here, yet I am the stubborn. I dont give a shit about slasher, all I know is, that a friend of mine tried it and he was good with it. It's a pistol it's supposed to lose accuracy with range. This is how we wanted to design pistols from the begining, so where is the problem?

And from what I saw from an older video of you, you were handling your CS quite well, so I dont understand, where is the fucking problem with burst?
Better yet, let rabbi reply this question who seems to know something that I dont...

lol jini... im not gonna explain u that again and again.

just test it somewhere in neofrag, fight for example with desperado first and then take the FL. u will see which weapon is the better one.

hf and gl -.-

Jini you keep saying this "my friend tested it and hes good with it so it must be balanced" crap. You have obviously never heard of a control group, or a fair test or any of the other stuff discussed here.

Youre not the best there ever was, far from it. Your arguments are weak and flawed at best. Who the hell wants 100k of your money. This thread is NOT ABOUT YOU, noone cares what you think and frankly youre derailing the thread. Please stop posting.

I've never had a problem with you Jini - and I've always thought you were alright to be truthful. However, several of your recent forum posts are making me think that maybe I was wrong.

Not because I disagree with you (Even though I do, completely), but because of the way you argue your total lack of a point, and completely deny that there's even a chance you could be wrong.

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Originally Posted by nabbl

lol jini... im not gonna explain u that again and again.

just test it somewhere in neofrag, fight for example with desperado first and then take the FL. u will see which weapon is the better one.

hf and gl -.-

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The FL is teh better one, I agree.

Now I did saw this video with the xbow. There must be something wrong with it, I will try to reproduce it, but it might have to do with the fact that the monk was very close to the wall. Afaik however, 2.2 xbow did way less aoe damage

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Originally Posted by L0KI

I've never had a problem with you Jini - and I've always thought you were alright to be truthful. However, several of your recent forum posts are making me think that maybe I was wrong.

Not because I disagree with you (Even though I do, completely), but because of the way you argue your total lack of a point, and completely deny that there's even a chance you could be wrong.

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Loki, I have never had a problem with you either, but your recent posts made me think that I was -maybe- wrong.
By nomeans, everyone is entitled to his opinion, but for an old school, low teh PE that has left this game for 3 years, well I refuse to join the rest of the nibs and preaching me, who I HAVE NEVER LEFT THE GAME for the last 5 years...

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Is there way to stop stupid people posting in this thread? I think everyone (bar one) agrees on the issue at hand. Plenty of weapons need a nerf and plenty more a boost.

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There is a way to stop stupid people Sir William, and that is, if you cancel -AGAIN- your accounts, only forever this time.
You have to realize that there is a fundamental difference between, you Nabbl and Me. That is both him and I know how to fight, which is something you simply ignore.

For ALL the rest now: I dont give the slightest fuck who is right and who is wrong, you can all believe that the game is unbalanced, the FL is shit, the AK is worthless the CS the same, but the desperado is thebest weapon ingame. I am still using a FL, and by your logic, If I ever used a desperado, you would ALL be dead TOGETHER :p:p cheers

I was Hi tech Pistol PE, rifle PE, low tech pistol PE, low tech rifle PE, HC PE, MC PE...

It doesn't take someone whom has played solidly for the past 12 months to know/realise you are wrong. It just takes common sense.

Either way, I know you are the type to want the last word - so I fully expect a response.