The current LE, what it used to be, and its impact on the community - Discussion

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20-02-13, 23:11
DR REED

Quote:

Originally Posted by gostly

That's what trolling is though isn't it? Faid is being sarcastic and mocking us with his posts aka trolling. That's why his threads are getting closed and his posts are losing credibility more and more.

How would you entitle your type of post here ???

Oh man....
20-02-13, 23:13
Arista Barret

Quote:

Originally Posted by DR REED

How would you entitle your type of post here ???

Oh man....

How do you title all of these posts not about the topic? Once again....its ok when one person does it but not the other. Its all wrong.
20-02-13, 23:28
Nidhogg

Can you please stop all the insults - you're making these forums difficult for the devs to read which means you risk them not reading them at all. I don't want to go back to the days when these threads were littered with [ edited ] notes and the corpses of banned accounts but I will if you force me to. I would have thought you all could have learned to be more mature after all this time.

Fair warning.
20-02-13, 23:40
Dropout

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nidhogg

Can you please stop all the insults - you're making these forums difficult for the devs to read which means you risk them not reading them at all. I don't want to go back to the days when these threads were littered with [ edited ] notes and the corpses of banned accounts but I will if you force me to. I would have thought you all could have learned to be more mature after all this time.

Fair warning.

Indeed a very fair warning.
And honestly, I am impressed (or maybe more like surprised) about the way you deal with all this. Especially you Nid.. Must be hard to keep that ban-hammer of yours holstered.. :p

Personally I think all this is pretty tirring aswell.. I dont think I have ever posted as much as these last few days..
Not on any of my *cough*previous*cough*forum*cough*accounts*cough* ;)
21-02-13, 00:22
gostly

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disturbed21

And that sucks, those guys are asshats and honestly deserve to get their shit blown up imo. However, un-le'd players can drive their Rhino onto an le'd players mob with no fear of retaliation...I'm assuming that happens as well, so this just fixes one side of things.

The current system appears broken, so a change is needed; however, what's implemented in this patch just appers to punish le'd characters who want to drive vehicles...there have been several good ideas in this thread, so hopefully the devs are taking notes :)

-Edited- shouldn't try to multi-task at work :p

I haven't checked that patch discussion thread out but I don't know how else they would fix these issues with LE drivers than to do what they're proposing. This thread has had a lot of input from both sides of the community and hopefully it does help the devs for future changes.

Also, I'll say it again, the LE is a far-from-perfect system and needs changes, I don't think the original LE concept was ever intended to be a permanent implant for a characters life. Whenever I see a tank with LE using a creed I get mad because that means he has both tank MC5 chips plus a TL 114 rare weapon, they're obviously pvp-ready and yet they stay LE'd so that they're untouchable. It would take some major change to the LE for people like that to remove their LE too, everything about the LE discourages you from taking it out since you can do anything you want with it in(including grieving other players).
21-02-13, 00:38
flib

Quote:

Originally Posted by gostly

I haven't checked that patch discussion thread out but I don't know how else they would fix these issues with LE drivers than to do what they're proposing. This thread has had a lot of input from both sides of the community and hopefully it does help the devs for future changes.

Also, I'll say it again, the LE is a far-from-perfect system and needs changes, I don't think the original LE concept was ever intended to be a permanent implant for a characters life. Whenever I see a tank with LE using a creed I get mad because that means he has both tank MC5 chips plus a TL 114 rare weapon, they're obviously pvp-ready and yet they stay LE'd so that they're untouchable. It would take some major change to the LE for people like that to remove their LE too, everything about the LE discourages you from taking it out since you can do anything you want with it in(including grieving other players).

You don't need any MC5's to do that.
21-02-13, 00:42
Dropout

Quote:

Originally Posted by gostly

Whenever I see a tank with LE using a creed I get mad because that means he has both tank MC5 chips plus a TL 114 rare weapon, they're obviously pvp-ready

Camo PA + Soldier2 + Soldier3 + Enh. Physics3 + Harden Backbone 3 = 116 str.
However, I still do agree - especially when it comes to tanks as they REALLY do not need MC5's.
The one thing that REALLY do piss me off, is LE's with WoC armor though.. That just isnt right IMO.
21-02-13, 01:05
FoxDF

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nidhogg

Can you please stop all the insults - you're making these forums difficult for the devs to read which means you risk them not reading them at all. I don't want to go back to the days when these threads were littered with [ edited ] notes and the corpses of banned accounts but I will if you force me to. I would have thought you all could have learned to be more mature after all this time.

Fair warning.

Thank you, Nidhogg.
21-02-13, 01:16
gostly

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dropout

Camo PA + Soldier2 + Soldier3 + Enh. Physics3 + Harden Backbone 3 = 116 str.
However, I still do agree - especially when it comes to tanks as they REALLY do not need MC5's.
The one thing that REALLY do piss me off, is LE's with WoC armor though.. That just isnt right IMO.

I've seen a couple of tanks without PA with LE and using the creed. They always hit the same things I'm hitting just to push me out of the zone because I can't do anything to them and can't outdamage them, so farming in that zone is impossible. Which to me is bullshit, but yea WoC PA with LE in is another thing.
21-02-13, 01:50
Torg

i dont see a real discussion here, just a few guys complaining about ppl playing with LE. funny thing some dont seem to get the concept of different playing styles.
21-02-13, 01:53
Arista Barret

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torg

i dont see a real discussion here, just a few guys complaining about ppl playing with LE. funny thing some dont seem to get the concept of different playing styles.

"The current LE, what it used to be, and its impact on the community - Discussion"
21-02-13, 22:38
Disturbed21

Quote:

Originally Posted by gostly

Also, I'll say it again, the LE is a far-from-perfect system and needs changes, I don't think the original LE concept was ever intended to be a permanent implant for a characters life. Whenever I see a tank with LE using a creed I get mad because that means he has both tank MC5 chips plus a TL 114 rare weapon, they're obviously pvp-ready and yet they stay LE'd so that they're untouchable. It would take some major change to the LE for people like that to remove their LE too, everything about the LE discourages you from taking it out since you can do anything you want with it in(including grieving other players).

I understand your POV, the current system does encourage you to keep in the LE longer than it used to, it's just more efficient...I could be wrong but I think there are a lot of players that would remove, or at least experiment with removing the LE, if it wasn’t permanent.

NC PVP rules (the LE) predate modern MMO’s and are rather simplistic in comparison to those that have more robust rules. Right now I see two sides arguing what the LE is or is supposed to be;

1) The LE is supposed to be there to protect noobs only.
2) The LE is there to protect runners that do not want to participate in PVP.

I always saw it as serving both purposes, which is why I think it’s currently broken. If it’s supposed to be there for number 2, it shouldn’t have a requirement that the runner has to be lower level than /30 in order to be re-implanted. And if it’s only supposed to be there until the runner hits level /30 then why doesn’t it automatically pop out? My assumption was always that this level requirement was there just to deter high-level runners from abusing the system, i.e., get -99 SL, pop in the LE and run missions.

My proposal: remove the level requirement to re-implant and fix the ways it can be abused. So, when removing the LE it breaks (0/0) and cannot be fixed. Create a mission that must be run in order to get another LE chip. That mission can only be started by a runner without an LE in and with positive SL. The only way to complete the mission and get the LE is to have a free brain slot and have the LE implanted automatically via the mission/NPC. If the LE is removed again, it will break and the mission will need to be repeated to get another.
21-02-13, 23:15
Arista Barret

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disturbed21

I understand your POV, the current system does encourage you to keep in the LE longer than it used to, it's just more efficient...I could be wrong but I think there are a lot of players that would remove, or at least experiment with removing the LE, if it wasn’t permanent.

NC PVP rules (the LE) predate modern MMO’s and are rather simplistic in comparison to those that have more robust rules. Right now I see two sides arguing what the LE is or is supposed to be;

1) The LE is supposed to be there to protect noobs only.
2) The LE is there to protect runners that do not want to participate in PVP.

I always saw it as serving both purposes, which is why I think it’s currently broken. If it’s supposed to be there for number 2, it shouldn’t have a requirement that the runner has to be lower level than /30 in order to be re-implanted. And if it’s only supposed to be there until the runner hits level /30 then why doesn’t it automatically pop out? My assumption was always that this level requirement was there just to deter high-level runners from abusing the system, i.e., get -99 SL, pop in the LE and run missions.

My proposal: remove the level requirement to re-implant and fix the ways it can be abused. So, when removing the LE it breaks (0/0) and cannot be fixed. Create a mission that must be run in order to get another LE chip. That mission can only be started by a runner without an LE in and with positive SL. The only way to complete the mission and get the LE is to have a free brain slot and have the LE implanted automatically via the mission/NPC. If the LE is removed again, it will break and the mission will need to be repeated to get another.

I absolutely love the idea. this would allow others to test the waters.
21-02-13, 23:29
Arista Barret

Currently we have alot of pvp incentives to participate in pve. to balance the game considering the above posts, i offer a pve incentive to pvp. create zones with a debuff. Minus one to Law Enforment. MC5 could be a good start. Doy tunnels might work also to get more tradeskill players thinking about flighting for what they need.
23-02-13, 12:21
supa X

Dunno if it has been suggest already but i think the best solution for LE should be adding one more disavantage :

Stopping XP gain when you reach cap in a skill if you wear LE, so you can't make woc with LE.
23-02-13, 19:10
Pestilence

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disturbed21

My proposal: remove the level requirement to re-implant and fix the ways it can be abused. So, when removing the LE it breaks (0/0) and cannot be fixed. Create a mission that must be run in order to get another LE chip. That mission can only be started by a runner without an LE in and with positive SL. The only way to complete the mission and get the LE is to have a free brain slot and have the LE implanted automatically via the mission/NPC. If the LE is removed again, it will break and the mission will need to be repeated to get another.

Nice idea, but would not work. The items are tradable, so people could easily use an alternate char for running the mission. Or just buy one. Yes for reimplanting the LE, but the solution to the abuse problem has to be solved differently.

Maybe make it neccessary to register the LE like a vehicle key. You register youself as a person of law. It can only be done with positive SL and only once a month or so.
23-02-13, 19:34
Arista Barret

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pestilence

Nice idea, but would not work. The items are tradable, so people could easily use an alternate char for running the mission. Or just buy one. Yes for reimplanting the LE, but the solution to the abuse problem has to be solved differently.

Maybe make it neccessary to register the LE like a vehicle key. You register youself as a person of law. It can only be done with positive SL and only once a month or so.

He suggested that the mission npc implants it and you don't hold the le in your inventory.
23-02-13, 19:46
Pestilence

Don't know if thats even possible in current Neocron. Correct me if I'm wrong. Well, of course it would just be a simple Database call on the other hand. But still, I don't really like the idea of doing another run and being ganked by people, who are camping the LE-run spots, when I actually want to leave PvP. Registration would even give the LE a value, that you can buy from FSM at the moment.

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