Community Project - Neocron:Source - Thread 3

Our second modeler just got his hl2dm version from that ;)


btw could you maybe look at this discussion on the svn server, r2d22k would like to rearrange some of the folder structure, dunno if that will make the discspace go up a lot:
http://wiki.techhaven.org/NcSource_talk:SVN_Structure

and in general, it's a good idea to check the wiki recent changes page (http://wiki.techhaven.org/Special:RecentChanges) because we'll be

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Originally Posted by Rambus

It worked on my clean external computer prior to manually embedding content (I had some trouble with pakrat).
(In this instance I had manually added the custom content folders, i.e. your props).

I see now that the map, as supplied to you, with the media embedded does drop some textures.

I'll get this fixed up asap :)

EDIT:
For Nvidia users:
http://www.steampowered.com/nvidia/
For ATI users:
http://www.steampowered.com/ati_offer1a/

So basically everyone has free Hl2DM.

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ATTENTION ALL NEOCRON CITIZENS: If you are interested in playing Neocron: Source and you didn't follow the links above, A POX ON YOU! You will need to own HL2: DM and an Orange Box game. Go! Get your free game! Do it! DO IT NOW!!!

Seeing as r2d22k is looking into making weapons work, I've dropped work on the vendor for a while, and instead started with some weapons again. I've started working on the dissy, as the version I had wasn't possible to import in source.

This is around 3000 poly so far, but that's without backfacing removed (the parts of the model not visible)

do you guys think I should go up on the poly count? (make it all a bit more rounded)

http://www.biglines.nl/ncmod/dissy.jpg

finished the whole gun in modelling, now I gotta fine-tune, but I need comments (as in, any critique you have, just say so)

http://www.biglines.nl/ncmod/dissycolour.jpg

It is hard to see (@ work, viewing thru remote desktop) but I'd say it looks good. Now all we need are some "NC Style" hands to wrap around that sucker in first person view!

If you lay out the UV's for me (as straight as possible, please) I wouldn't mind taking a crack at a detailed skin for it. I would preferably like to have a VGUI screen on it to show ammo consumption on the model itself (just cause it is cool!). Are we going to try and get VGUI screens functioning for the mod? A bit off topic, but I have some cool ideas involving them.

Anyhow, looks good mate.

depends what u mean with vgui, r2d22k is looking into the general gui, so we should be able to do that, I dunno how to do the animated ammo display tho

Here:
VGUI Overview
VGUI Screen Implementation

It's the same stuff that makes up the game panels on the Valve UI, but you can place them on models and in maps to show dynamic information. Such as the example on the webpage above of a keypad that unlocks a door. Coud be useful for making the Citycoms integrate into gameplay or showing a digital read-out of the ammo on a laser rifle in first person view. I dunno, I think it might be out of our immediate scope, but I would love to have these things to play around with later on.

Also, I will have some updates on my map soon. I have been very busy in my personal life since my divorce and have had to cut down the amount of time I had been devoting to playing and developing games. At the least, I will integrate some more advertising materials and upload them to the SVN.

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/VGUI_on_entity << is specifically how to add it to a model, so ye it's possible, I'll work with r2d2 on that.

as for the texturing, I first need to animate the thing, because then I know which back faces I can remove, I take it we're just using things like they are in neocron? so no melee attacks with the dissy?

After the dissy, or maybe during, I will start on psi glove, as r2d2 wants to get started on psi heal and shields, I was thinking of using the nc poster (also the background of the menu in NC, it's also the one at the top of the forums), as a concept. This is a different glove from the one in game, but the one in game probably doesn't look very nice on a higher poly model

the vgui thingy should be doable, to make the heals and shields show up on the person who got them i need to have a look into the vgui stuff, after that i think it shouldn't be too much of a problem to have such a display on the dissy the cs or whatever

have you tried making the blue parts, especially the clip of the dissy glow a little bit, i think that might look cool (oh hell yeah i am a scifi glow fanboy, i have to admit it ;) )

oh no, this is rendered in blender, the colours are just random colours so it looks a bit like a dissy, I need to finish the model and animation before I start texturing

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Originally Posted by Biglines

... I take it we're just using things like they are in neocron? so no melee attacks with the dissy?

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I don't know. That depends on our gameplay that we decide. My personal opinion would be to say yes. Melee attacks FTW.

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Originally Posted by Biglines

... I will start on psi glove ... I was thinking of using the nc poster (also the background of the menu in NC, it's also the one at the top of the forums), as a concept. This is a different glove from the one in game, but the one in game probably doesn't look very nice on a higher poly model

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100% agree. That glove looks badass, and the current in-game glove does need an update. The newer weapons that came with 2.1 are updated, so we wouldn't necessarily have to change them much, if at all.

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Originally Posted by r2d22k

... to make the heals and shields show up on the person who got them i need to have a look into the vgui stuff ...

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The effect on the character model or a GUI element that shows up in first/third peson view to show that you have a heal ticking on you? One reason I wanted to use the OB code, is the particle system - specfically for shields and heals. They can be bound to a bone on all of the character models and be turned on and off depending on the status of the heal/shield. I would ask that while u are developing the GUI element portion of the buffs, to please consider making a coherent timer that can be seen showing how much time or "health" a shield or heal has remaining. I am also willing to help with the GUI artwork if/when a need arises. :D

I am also willing to develop the particle systems required for all heals, shields, sanctums and ammo splashes, if need be.

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Originally Posted by r2d22k

have you tried making the blue parts, especially the clip of the dissy glow a little bit, i think that might look cool

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It is possible. It is also possible to make parts of weapons transparent and glow simultaneously... so, glass plasma tanks on the plasma weapons that glow: CHECK! :D

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Originally Posted by r2d22k

(oh hell yeah i am a scifi glow fanboy, i have to admit it)

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Me too!

Please let me know if I can be of assistance with anything (textures, particle systems, suggestions, etc.).

Some of the answers to these things lie in the gameplay rules being decided on. We should probably get a discussion going on that either here, or on the wiki.

I always thought they have introduced the attach Entity to a bone feature also in the normal SDK not only in the orange box version :/

I am currently thinking about how we should manage the psi effects but i think we should move that discussion to the wiki. And btw: suggestions are always welcome ^^

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Originally Posted by Whitestuff

One reason I wanted to use the OB code, is the particle system - specfically for shields and heals. They can be bound to a bone on all of the character models and be turned on and off depending on the status of the heal/shield.

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This can be done in any version of the source sdk, the only difference is that there are some extra particle effects added that are more advanced and use more advanced shaders, but the things you did for the gravlifts could already be done in the original halflife

we need some input on the shield/buff/heal system:
http://wiki.techhaven.org/NcSource_t...elds_and_heals

and could maybe somebody pack the subway map properly? I have no idea how to do it, but I'd like to set up the server so we can all mess about ;)

i just recompiled it, packed it, but can't upload it to the svn

Ooops thats probably because you need svn login details ;)

I'll generate an account for you and PM you now.'

EDIT:

Thanks for doing that, I've been bogged down forever it seems and I was excited to have people check out the map.

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Originally Posted by Biglines

This can be done in any version of the source sdk, the only difference is that there are some extra particle effects added that are more advanced and use more advanced shaders, but the things you did for the gravlifts could already be done in the original halflife

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But the editor did not exist in the first version of Source. Now it's *easier* to make the look that you want.

@Rambus: thx mate

@Whitestuff: yeah that's true and there also are some "extra" features in the ob engine but nothing that is even worth mentioning

i created a new folder for the compiled hl2:dm maps in the svn cause i think we will need to recompile them once we got our stuff finished so i thought it may be best if we keep that stuff seperate

you can get dm_subway here just extract it to your ..\steam\steamapps\youremail@yourprovider.xyz\half-life 2 deathmatch\hl2mp folder, it will ask you whether you want to integrate some folders into others (at least if you are running win 7), just accept that (as long as you don't have another map installed called dm_subway)

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Originally Posted by r2d22k

@Rambus: thx mate

@Whitestuff: yeah that's true and there also are some "extra" features in the ob engine but nothing that is even worth mentioning

i created a new folder for the compiled hl2:dm maps in the svn cause i think we will need to recompile them once we got our stuff finished so i thought it may be best if we keep that stuff seperate

you can get dm_subway here just extract it to your ..\steam\steamapps\youremail@yourprovider.xyz\half-life 2 deathmatch\hl2mp folder, it will ask you whether you want to integrate some folders into others (at least if you are running win 7), just accept that (as long as you don't have another map installed called dm_subway)

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with packing is actually meant that all the used assets are included in the bsp, so people can download the map from the server ;)

fixed it, i recompiled it again and now all the assets are included, so people only need the .bsp file and they can retrieve it now directly from the server or still get it here. now you only need to extract the contents of the .rar file into your ..\steam\steamapps\youremail@yourprovider.xyz\half-life 2 deathmatch\hl2mp\maps folder and he shouldn't complain about anything anymore

One of the players found a bug in the corner of the subway platforms, in the corner at the plants/chairs, if crouched and taking cover there, people get stuck

damn that valve dev wiki is kinda confusing. i tried to dig myself through it to find out what the differences between the ep1 and the orangebox branches are and it turned out that there definitely are some differences. you can have a look at it here and it's true, the particle system changed, from an coder driven particle system to a more artist driven particle system. but i don't think we really need an artist driven particle system, we can handle the stuff we need to handle somewhere in the code (and probably have to)
using the orangebox particle system would be easier, for sure, but if we use the orangebox engine branch then people would have to own one of the orangebox driven games. i personally don't like the idea of forcing the people to buy an orangebox driven game
the only feature which is quite interesting in the orangebox sdk (at least from a coders point of view) is the point valve called "Threading" in the aforementioned article on the orangebox engine branch. to sum it up (roughly, unprecise and dirty): orangebox based mods/games profit from multicore environments while ep1 based games don't. i don't think that we might run into performance troubles at least not during the early phases of development

But now for the question i wanted to ask: should we stick to the old Source Engine Branch or shall we move to the new one? That's something we should decide now, cause if we start with the Orangebox Engine it will be hard to move back to the Episode one Engine, especially when we make heavy use of the OB features which we should if we use that branch. Starting with the Episode one branch and later moving on to the OB branch would be possible and not too hard, cause valve did quite a good job, but that would definitely upset the community even more than saying right away from the start that only hl2dm is needed.

So what do you think?

I've always prefered ep1, since then people can play our game for free (hl2dm is free), which should double or even triple the amount of people who will give it a try

Hasn't Whitestuff done a lot of work already with the orange box when he started everything off before anyone joined him?
I understand what some of you are saying about greater distribution but don't you think he deserves a bit more respect for the time he's put in using the orange box features? Not to mention inviting people to join him in what was originally his project.

What would he really have to do to port to hl2dm?

As I understand it only his particle effects are orange box.

EDIT:@biglines, thanks for the bug report- I noticed a few things I didn't like too. I'll revise the map but I'm not sure if the combined changes will warrant a new version?

We are working together as a team, so we decide together if White has a good reason to say that we should stick to OB then we will stick to it, but as far as i can tell (please correct me if i'm wrong) he didn't do much coding related stuff. white mainly worked on the maps and porting the maps from OB to Episode 1 is just a matter of recompiling them (sometimes not even that has to be done). As far as i can tell, the nc related models whitestuff used are just plain static props, he hasn't wrapped an entity class around them so you don't even notice a difference between them being used in ep1 oder OB. the only thing that would be missing is the bubbleeffect in the genrep, but since (afaik) he just placed the genrep as a static prop, we would have to redo the effect partially and integrate it into the genrep entity, so no one ever needs to manually add a particle effect to genreps again

if most people would say: hell yes, we want as nice looking particle effects as possible and we would even buy tf2, portal, or another ob game for that, then we surely will move to the OB
But as i said i don't think the graphics will look that much better with the OB engine branch

this decision is (at least i think so) a decision the community has to make cause: what is an advanced particle system useful for if no one plays that game cause they have to buy an OB game?

I think whitestuff tried recompiling it to Ep1, but it didn't work at the time.

All the models were made by me and can be used in both ep1 and OB, they were used just the same in the hl2dm map.

Why we agreed on orange box is because at the time whitestuff knew most about it, and I don't know anything about mapping.

if it is impossible to port the plaza1 map back to ep1, then I'd say we go for ob, but if we can, ep1 engine would be preferable for this mod in order to get people to actually play it.

All I'm saying is just my vote.

But I'd like to hear from whitestuff, he's the one that's invested in OB.

As for not respecting whitestuff, I respect him very much, and I think he's done great work. The moment it became a community project however, none of the decisions were made by one person anymore.

If the map cannot be ported to ep1, then that's a valid reason, but that doesn't mean suggesting to use the ep1 engine because there's a whole lot of advantages to it is somehow disrespectful of Whitestuff. At this point we actually have to make the decision because work will start on the things that depend on it, so this is the point where it is important to make the final decision, the decision can be made based on whether or not the map can be used or not, but if what r2d2 is true, then it shouldn't be a problem, and the OB version only has a few items that are better than ep1, while ep1 has the tremendous advantage of actually be free for most people at this point, while a orange box game is at least 15 euros, which is a lot to pay for a community made game


So to conclude: If the map can be ported to ep1 with not too much effort, I'd prefer to use ep1. If the map cannot be ported, I think we should stick with OB

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Originally Posted by Rambus

What would he really have to do to port to hl2dm?

As I understand it only his particle effects are orange box.

EDIT:@biglines, thanks for the bug report- I noticed a few things I didn't like too. I'll revise the map but I'm not sure if the combined changes will warrant a new version?

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unless they're big changes, I'd say hold off until we have some more content, the current one is fun to mess about with, and it showcases some of our stuff, I don't think people will keep playing hl2dm on that map for long unless we add our cooler gameplay ;)

I agree, if it's possible to export it then cool, but I too have been under the impression that it wasn't possible or would require too much reworking.

I'm well aware that it is now a shared project and plenty of other people have put a lot of work in also. I was simply asking that the person who had the grace to allow it to be a community project have his work taken into account as at the time that did not seem the case.
I also felt it showed a slight lack of respect to keep posting about using a different engine when it had been said a few times that it would cause work to be thrown away.
If it's possible to export, thats great but at least talk to Whitestuff about it and talk him through it.

Anyway, I'm not looking to make enemies or go on a crusade in someone elses name, indeed Whitestuff is probably non too inmpressed about me going off on one like this. Appol's for any offence caused to anyone involved with the project.