Leave the game for sure ? Because of XP gain ?
I highly doubt that.
Besides, as they say, we see in others what we ourselves are.
If all you see in others, like un-LEd payers is ganking, and LE players leaving game over some game mechanics changes, I think it tells a lot about how YOU would react, rather than how 3-400 players would react.
You are wrong. At least for many of those who want an INCENTIVE to remove the LE. I can only speak with certainity for myself, and with good guessing for several others, but what I want, and think others do too, is having both: To experience the world as it should be, with all its fear AND not be at a considerable disadvantages on the road to cap. Which you are at the moment. You lose money, XP and time if you level without LE. What I also want is having the athmosphere again the original poster spoke of.Quote:
Originally Posted by DR REED
Arguments for that group i tried to find with my other thread (and I failed miserably it seems), and so far I see only points that disadvantage that group slightly, IF the "compensation" for NonLEs is a bit higher than the average loss. Nothing that really influences their playstyle. If I'd leave because someone is compensated for a risk that is taken I'd be long gone ("Oh no, these people get Outposts and risk only to loose all their implants several times"...). And a lot of others would be gone too.Quote:
Originally Posted by DR REED
I won't say "No one wants to take that choice away" (as I wanted first), since there are those that think its the best solution, but many don't want to take the choice away. They only want to have equal opportunity. Not same work, higher risk, lower gain.Quote:
Originally Posted by DR REED
And they want a playstyle back that fosters cooperation. But they cannot choose it alone.
You can still choose to have that nice little chip in your head. I would even support that you can put it back in later, if for example you can only change it once a week or like that.
I don't PvP - wish I could re-insert my LE (I ripped it out with my first 2 chars because I thought it would be like in NC1)...
Getting killed in Plaza 2 in front of your App (and directly in front of 2 Copbots) is getting old... AND: In NC1 there were
less trigger happy idiots near you as the "red" factions were out in the canyon or in the pepper park (which we avoided
at all cost ^^ - wouldnt work nowadays anymore as there is no more yakarma in Plaza 1 etc.)
I had several OP Fights which were fun - but I did not get ganked without provocation. I even talked to the enemy
(Xantor from uTs was quite a nice guy btw.) in a non safe zone - and lived. I doubt this could happen nowadays...
I think once the thrill of "OMG AN UN LE!!!" wears off it won't be that bad. As a member of the supposed biggest dicks in the game (RSC), most of us don't kill noobs. I usually go out of my way to give them chunks of credits for having the balls to take their LE out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggis.at
I have to admit i saw an un LE'd fa guy on his way to regants yesterday to level up. he was a mid level monk so i got my gun out and shot him a few times. I didnt kill him tho. i left him. i think he ran off. i wanted to give him money after but i lost him. Hopefully he wasnt shaking too much and he enjoyed the experience ;)
^^^Lol trolls, people post their experiences with shit heads just like your-selves and you admit to trolling lol!
Anyways unless everyone can have the same ping, forcing any penalty on LE'd players is dumb. Here in in the states I can be killed off before I even see the roving band of trolls sexing my corpse.
Euros freaked when all they had was a 500 latency N-American server.
Twat. Please stop posting.
The Community changed. I still remember the times, where you could even think of talking to "red" players. The reason I am still with my LE is because nowadays nearly everyone just goes for the kill. Neocron has become a shooter for a large part of the playerbase. This is not supposed to be a whine about "in nc1 everything was better". But yes, the game simply does not feel the same anymore, because there are by far more PVP-ganking-geeks in relation to "normal" players. Do what you want with the LE, but I am going to keep it implanted for now. Maybe the world changed again, someday.
It's kind of simple really, bring back NC1 safezones and LE rules. I hate fighting in plaza, pepper park is where it should be going on.
Oh and Chuck Norris needs to stop trolling every single LE thread. It's getting old man. :rolleyes:
This is something some posters here permanently want to deny and building a equation like "Neocron is nice cyberpunk with nice guys helping everybody, Alice in Wonderland and the Bunnies there".....Quote:
Originally Posted by Pestilence
Reality is different.
This does not mean that Neocron isn't a wonderful game with an impressive atmosphere. It is a full competitive game and lot of player are fine with this.
But this shows that a changing of LE does require careful adjustments in game mechanics like criminal watch / SL etc., not a simple "reward system to remove LE and become soft target".....
Reed
Did you ever wonder why that might be so?
With like 90% of the Population being LE'd, there isnt much to fight, thats why those mainiacs shoot everything they see.
I can understand those guys even kinda, must be frustrating to sit there capped, seeing a lot of other capped players running around with LEs, and that one midlevel without a LE might be just the poor guy who gets abused as a vent for all that frustration.
I believe with a XP Increase that would change, more players to enter the PvP fights, and more players reaching the cap faster.
There already IS a downside to using an LE: You loose one Brainslot... And I am OK with that - as I mainly use AOE to level and I don't think I like negative Soullight ;)
That... is a fairly naive point of view.Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxDF
The only reason those idiots shoot everything at sight is because they can and because they have fun with it. I don't believe or see any reason that they want or seek a challenge when they shoot at anything below their level. Boredom maybe,but not because there is no challenge.
If any proof for the real intention of the LE-discussions was needed ever - here it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxDF
"Pls take out your LE as soon as possible- we have nothing to shoot at !" :))
Ey sorry this is polemic and was not serious, i admit.
I cannot understand at all why here is such a panic ??? Let them remove their LE's if time is right for them. Most of the levelling players will remove their LE even WITHOUT your rewards !
On Mars 7 of my 8 Chars were non-LE. What is your problem ???
Why not beeing patient ? :)
Reed
Patience is not cyberpunk :angel:Quote:
Originally Posted by DR REED
right. cyberpunk-RGPs are about consequences. your actions will determine your faction-relations, npc-relations, missions you're getting offered. all we need is a (numeric) system to rate your actions and consequences. (see also dribbles brainport post) in an ideal online world we wouldnt even need an LE - because all actions had consequences.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drachenpaladin
so lets commonly develop and discuss alternatives to the LE in terms of consequences instead of just demanding the removal of the LE. hint: we will never ever have a neocron where you can go out and shoot anyone just for fun. its an MMORPG, not a shooter, and this will never change.
Im not sure if it was suggested already, but, if one would have to kill a runner again to complete the epic, like it used to be, this could be a reason to take the le out.
Dont get me wrong, in fact, im not one of the "LE hate crew", but the argument that clan based game athmosphere is a key to the NC experience, is really a strong one.
I do have chars with and without LE.
The reason behind the ones wearing an LE is , i must admit, due to the fact that i havnt really found the right clan now.
And here we got the snake biting its tail (or was it a cat?).
Would it be better to join any clan, wich may not follow the politics that i would normally, just for the sake of being clanned and protected, or is it better to be able to wait, until the playerbase settles a bit, enjoy the fact that i wont be ganked, but having to play like a lone wolf" until the right peoples show themselves?
Im still not sure, thats why i am on both sides of the coin atm.
But one thing i know for sure, i am happy to have the choice, and i guess that i am not alone with this one.
So, if anything in the LE mechanic is to be changed, it will have to be done in a very cautious way, because i wouldnt want to be forced in a specific way, even if i like the way im forced into if you know what i mean.
Still, the opening argument is valid, NC is best being clanned. Its a pity that some factions have many small clans, with barely somebody online, instead of maybe 2 or 3 bigger ones, where one might have the chance to find anyone to play with (but thats another issue).
So, to sum it up, if someone should be pushed to remove the enforcer, it should happen really softly, i a way, that leaves it possible to enjoy the game however one likes.
Wich leaves something like: No woc with LE, no epic or maybe 20% less Xp.
But a no go area for enforced people (Doy tunnels Mc5 etc)like some would love to see, are clearly a bad idea.
Also, (i admit that there are a lot of emo posts about the topic) some guys should rethink if their behaviour is really the right one to get the folks to remove the Le.
I mean, shooting everyone one sight, wont get a noob to remove the Le, does it?
And, to all the people having good memories of Nc1, and of its helpful playerbase back then, what stops you from doing it right now?
Get your Clanmates to a cave, and spread it through the Channels that your Clan is keeping that special cave clean from pks for pro/anti city folks, and watch out for a good fight wich will certainly arise.
Btw a good way to recruit.
Or what about building some teams, with one or two ppu to help noobs lvl up (of course this works only if they take the LE out wich, in turn gets you closer to your goal).
Why did i never see Clans advertise with this kind of stuff?
This game offers a lot of possibilities, with just a little effort from the playerbase. As long as no ones is playing these cards, i dont see why the devs should invest time they dont have, to change something that isnt really broken, because on thing is for sure:
Those who want to take it out, will do so sooner or later, and those who dont, wont, no matter what anyone do.
Sorry for the misspelling, but somedays english is hard, and today is one of these days.
I have to admit it might be naive at some point, but i believe most of those kills are for that reason, basic furstration and boredom.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drachenpaladin
And yes, im aware that there are always some douchebag who shoot everything in sight, you can find those people in every game.
I guess that IS the intention for most of the LE threads in this forum, but sorry not for my thread =)Quote:
Originally Posted by DR REED
Cant say that im in panic about this or anything like that. And i cant understand how you believe that this would be a "panic".Quote:
Originally Posted by DR REED
This is a discussion about the "psychological" impact the LE used to have on the community and a suggestion to reinstate this impact in a way it wont hurt pure PvE players.
I dont know when exactly the LE Penalty got removed, but correct me if im wrong, the change came with 2.1 Evo. At least it was still present in 2005 on Mars.
(Would be nice if someone would have a date and source for the penalty removal, couldnt find it per google.)
So what was your reason for removing your LEs? A Clan? Boredome? PvP? Or maybe just the XP Penalty and you forgott that it existed back then? Im just currious and would like to know what made you remove them.
I would like Epic kill to be re-instated.
Me too. It is carebear currently. But someone will say it is abusable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kame
the problem is: the epic player kill was viable back then, when everybody and their little sister were plugging LEs right in the MC5. today a poor little /45 had to find and kill someone - so you'd either cheat by using a enemy alt or run into some capped guy and fail.Quote:
Originally Posted by William Antrim
Or pay someone for a killwhoring, which is at least still somewhat reasonable within the setting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Torg
which is precisely what people used to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drachenpaladin
Or you got lucky like me when nc2 first started up and managed to run in to a bd runner in pepper park 2 while running the dre epic. And getting the kill for free ;)
I don't know if someone wrote this already:
You don't want a XP malus when using LE, cause than they take longer to remove the LE and this whole discussion is worthless :)
Another thing is, when they want to play with LE, let them play with LE. It's already a BIG disadvantage that you have only room for 3 Brain Implants. And there are enough PvP players on the server.
I kinda agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Satan2k2
XP malus with LE in = slower leveling = less people to fight. Even if they removed the LE, it would still mean slower XP, since we all know that a lot of people here just enjoy ganking.
One thing I would like to have removed from LEs though. The ability to get WoC. Ofc, you should be able to get the XP, but you shouldnt be able to activate it.
Simple issue, but true ! - How could we overlook this all the time ?? oOQuote:
Originally Posted by Satan2k2
Reed
Because if the Non LEers get more XP than now instead of someone getting less, then the Speed of LE wearers leveling doesn't change at all compared to now. But it IS an important issue that should not be overlooked if anything is done :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by DR REED
Funny, maybe because you didnt read the opening post?Quote:
Originally Posted by DR REEDSimple issue, but true ! - How could we overlook this all the time ?? oOQuote:
Originally Posted by DropoutI kinda agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Satan2k2
XP malus with LE in = slower leveling = less people to fight. Even if they removed the LE, it would still mean slower XP, since we all know that a lot of people here just enjoy ganking.
One thing I would like to have removed from LEs though. The ability to get WoC. Ofc, you should be able to get the XP, but you shouldnt be able to activate it.
Reed
Now guess why i did write that.Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxDF
Yeah, but some others in this thread wrote: "LE should get lesser XP". But my point was, that the LE user already have a big disadvantage and so the non-LE'd dont need to be boosted.
Another point is: noob ganking. This whole thread is about it, too. "Noobs" pull out there LE to get more XP and get ganked like hell from other players. And this is already a given, but not that much.
Not really.Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxDF
It is more this: the thread is moving in a circle and somewhat needless.
Because your intention to give people a reward or bonus if they remove the LE is most unnecessary - they remove it themselve at a given point in time.
Because a bonus for one group of players is automatically a malus for the other one. (Would you say let people dupe because it does not affect me ?)
Because making the bonus to small it's useless (e.g. XP gain bonus), make bonus to big it is a risk of imbalancing.
As it was stated in this thread already: let people choose the time for removing/ wearing their LE for themselves. Let them choose their playstyle. This was working all the time. Why changing a running combination ?
Reed