foreign cast will be nerfed , that almost certain... Self cast ... i hope no :DQuote:
Originally Posted by SorkZmok
Printable View
foreign cast will be nerfed , that almost certain... Self cast ... i hope no :DQuote:
Originally Posted by SorkZmok
As for me, I dont see any reasons to nerf PPUs in any ways. Devs should better increase strength of selfcasts ... if no ... then just they should do nothing to PPUs.
If someone thinks that some dungeons are too easy with current PPUs ... lol, then fix those dungeons better, dont make PPUs scapegoats and solution of most balancing problems in Neocron.
You want the ppus to be stronger than they are now?
What about the current no-nerfed-holyheal-group ? i wonder if it's voluntary ?
It should stay un-nerfed really. The incredibly crap range more than makes up for that. If levelling is left harder than normal after the balancing, leaving the the Holy Heal Group as it is would be a nice gesture, since we'll be getting worse Holy buffs and the Holy Heal Group will only make a minor change to whether we're going to live or not. It also casts slower than a Holy Heal which makes it even less worth while for use in PvP.
I agree with the fact that you shouldn't be able to take on 120/120 by yourself, at least not without a great deal of difficultly like having a vehicle to gun instead of normal weapon or having a bunker you can hide in and it healing after every two hits.
See imo ranked 65/65 shouldn't beable to kill a 120/120, since if a player was ranked 120/120 you'd have no chance much the same as a 0/2 has no chance against a 30/30 player.
You should beable to kill a 65/65 (if your 65/65) with a little difficulty then mobs ranking 80/80 should probably be the limit for soloing. Mobs 85+ should require a team, However I think the problem is places like MC5 don't provide much cover for runners so it makes it impossible for a large team of multi skilled runners to go in there and kill the mobs. It would be better if the roomers where bigger and their where more places to hide, OR if it was more like the REAL mc5 and the difficult bit was getting to the building, which only held the commander!
Just going to re-ask a question from page one which got ignored.
:p
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Could someone please post the current effect of Foreign Cast buffs so I can get an understanding on what the below actually means:
Foreign Casts
The PPU’s main focus lies on supporting others: we’d like to generally reduce the effects to 10 – 25%, mainly for Shelter, Deflector, DamageBoost and ParaShock.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My second question is about Hybrids. What is the plan with those?
Both this thread and the weapon thread make no mention of them ( other than occasional complaint).
My third question is about Tanks, the plans are to remove psi and give them additional toys to do healing etc, I assume that the Tank can still receive buffs from a PPU?
The affect of this, combined with the cast reductions, will really make PPU buffs on a tanks become relatively much more effective, as the heals / shields become an additional buff. IMHO this is a good thing, depending on the toys Tanks get.
But with the foreign cast buff reduction PE's become more powerful as there self cast buffs stay the same power. How much of an advantage this is only time will see. PE's are already the kings of solo PVP and dueling so I'm sure they will be happy with the OP war / group PVP buff.
Once again we really need to see the numbers to really begin to compare.
My final comment is about PPU's in general. The healing class in this game has probably the hardest time of any MMORG I have ever played. Casting on our selves is not the problem. Its maintaining buffs on others.
There are precious little indicators to see when another player's buffs etc have dropped / been removed. We are forced to rely on the player telling us either by text or through a thirdparty tool like teamspeak.
If you introduced something like neural interface along with the buff nerf its going to get just plain painful.
People play to have fun, KK if you keep this up its just going to be damn painful.
I for one am not someone who gets pleasure from being in pain.
Kain
The major issue I see with PPUs,
is that they exist.
There's no reason for anyone to have an extra buffer as all it does is gives an "OMGWTFPWN" edge that just removes any type of fair fight.
Make monkeys monkeys and not "this or that" monkey,
altogether, removes para bs, all buffs above rank 2 and make them not even 50% effective on others
Hence, we got a monkey, that can choose, a balance, between self-buffing and attackpower.
PPUs are gamebreakers and has always been, no need for them in the sense they are now.
Mind you, I don't mind an half-immortal monkey, what I do mind is that all of his buddies are equally half-immortal and also that he has the ability to whoop my sorry ass.
Balance in all things
True! However the problem I have with the PPU is that they are supposed to be 'passive', yet they can cast OFFENSIVE boosters on others. Any combat boosters of level 3 boost the players offense skill by 20, which is a mahoussive amount!Quote:
Originally Posted by unreal
A PPU should NOT be able to also increase anyones 'offensive' capability, while at the same time giving them better defense/healing capability! It makes no sense!
Incorrect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Okran
What a PPU should do is raise the fighter's overall capabilities to the appropriate level (probably a 40-50% boost to total effectiveness), be that purely through passive effects (heals, shelter etc.), pure 'passive aggressive' effects (DB, combat buffs, debuffs etc.) or a mix of the two.
The use of Exotic Psi Use could restrain the PPU to one or the other, or a lower ability with both.
PEs never gained much from PPUs in the first place, infact; unless the PPU was full capped with a decent spell, getting a foreign shelter would be of detrimental effect. Where as when a PE and say a tank (used) to be balanced, a tank would benefit greatly from a PPU cast, giving the tank a much bigger advantage in the team arena.Quote:
But with the foreign cast buff reduction PE's become more powerful as there self cast buffs stay the same power. How much of an advantage this is only time will see. PE's are already the kings of solo PVP and dueling so I'm sure they will be happy with the OP war / group PVP buff.
(The problem is that PEs gained far too much with the skill changes, hopefull this should be resolved.)
What we need is a situation so that all classes, balanced 'solo' then recieve an equal boost with the addition of a PPU. Other wise classes will loose out at either solo/non-PPU supported times and/or loose out when a PPU is involved.
DJ,
Thank you for the reply, both in this discussion and the weapon balance thread.
Think both are going to be very hard to do. At what point do you balance PPU ? I'm not sure you can balance the benefit of a PPU across classes.
Mainly because of your main class the PE, the jack of all trades. I don't mean they are overpowered.
;)
Just that they sit firmly in the middle. As you said at the moment PE's gain very little benefit from the shields of even a capped PPU.
So how do you balance from that?
Only way I can see it is by initially balancing the wpn dam vs defense for non ppu buffed chars.
Then doing the whole thing again using capped ppu buffs.
But does the code have the ability to distinguish character class when a foreign buff gets cast. So that additional formuli can be used to vary the effect of a shield according to class?
Glad I'm not hands on involved. To balance 1vs1, small group and OP war with and without PPU availablity.
<shudder>
You can see why a lot of games stick to PVE.
Certainly the online games I've played with pvp in them have all had balancing issues, judging by the forums.
Anyway good luck to whoever is doing it.
I disagree. A 'pure' PPU should be purely passive, I disagree with anything that allows 'them' the ability to increase another players offensiveness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dribble Joy
So with that in mind, maybe if Exotic Psi use is introduced properly I would not have a problem. If you want to spec both then you should not be as good as a specialised monk.
The implementation of neural overload is currently "on ice", at least
until we can see the effects of the remaining PPU changes on the test
server. So you don't need to think about that point anymore, for now. :D
Do you guys like, have OP wars on the test server? Then get mad because another GM para shocked u and then godmode and kill them all?
Love that word.Quote:
Originally Posted by Okran
On a side note, would making parashock stackable lead to an increase in ppus present at group fights due to the affect being so profound?
maybe we'll need psi manip stacks to appear visually differently because of the stack size.
But it's a general problem, like with poison dots : here it is what i think it could be great : once your screen is filled with dots, just display "X more dots..." somewhere. Currently we don't have any idea of how many dots is running on you - and it's very frequent when you play a PPU.
I can't really stomach reading these threads anymore.. I hope someones been representing the nerf them to nothing POV.
*waits patiently.*Quote:
Originally Posted by John Doe
mick ele =dQuote:
Originally Posted by elem3nt[]
yeah para is problematic in that thesedays anyone who is paraed is ripe for dmg boosting, which in turn would lead to death... unless the attacking person really really sucked....
wrt the buffs, making them weaker accross the board would be nice. and remember to nerf the heals down too so its balanced across all the psi using classes.
so erm yeah.
tis been a long time ....
speak thy thoughts dev.
rawr ..... i hate stale threads :(
balancing monks = making psi resist work tbh.
i can't remember which official said this but it was something along the lines of "a player who would normally lose 10 out of 10 fights to another player will not be able to beat him with a PPU"
as long as it's like that, then i'm happy :)
And giving tanks psr on armor/certain imps tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Apocalypsox
Depends entirely on how it's organised. PSR isn't a necessated change, it's one of several routes that could be taken.
I dont even care about this thread anymore. It's a complete waste to post here seeing as though the gms basically said they're done looking at it and are going to give a more descriptive repeat of it.... sometime....
Quote:
Originally Posted by giga191
why? its 2v1. Are you telling me that if one shitty player on say a tank, and another good tank fight one guy, they should still not win because of the bad player?
A ppu needs to give a 100% boost to a person he is supporting or else he is usless and might as well be another player. The catch comes in in large groups.
If you have 6 dmg dealing classes, and 1 ppu can buff them all to 200% effectivness thats an issue because then the ppu is worth 6 players in effect.
The trick hence is to make ppuing very much limited to who the ppu is supporting at any given moment, instead of two minute s/d how about very powerful very short duration buffs?
How about a psi system that requires budgeting of psi and determenting what spells to use, not just a prohibitation on RoF.
Not to mention, it would make ppuing more fun if its all about fast paced reflexes on the part of the ppu, not about slapping on buffs and then just hitting people with heals.
The "heal" as we see it should be nerfed a lot, To compensate a single burst heal should be added, then make s/d last say only 6 seconds forign cast. Let ppus keep their perma s/d self cast. But then the trick would be, oh somone is going down, shelter, single target heal, dot heal, and move to another person.
I'm not for the "Neural Overload" system, because if a PPU gets it, why not an APU (I don't know if it's the case already or not :lol: :p )
I think the balancing idea is really cool, altough I don't think it's not really going to change anything about the game system. Even if we "nerf" PPU to the max, Passive Psi Users will always be welcome in an OP war, welcome as 1 PPU per damage dealer/player.
A thing that would be cool is to "divide" the Holy Shelter into 2 others spells like 1 for Fire/Poison and Energy/Xray damages, so far you could use some skills to put up those shelters up, offering the other classes the possibility to remove one of them. So far we have been reducing PPU abilities with the character skill, but it's more a question of how a good PPU support people, and harder is his work when he has to cast more shields to his team.
That would let the PPU be harder to play, but also, that would mean there would be more PPU in a OP war :(
PROPOSAL:
I say remove most of the single cast spells for casting on other players and only have group spells available for casting (except a few, like DB). Then at least the PPU has to say within a close proximity to the team for players to benfit from their spells.
WHY?:
It would solve so many things. You would not have to time each cast on each player and remember the order of players cast for re-casting spells on players. A player that decides to run off on their own looses the team spells (why benefit from team buffs when you are no longer a part of the team). A PPU can then do something else at the same time as keeping everyone else alive.
HOW IT MIGHT WORK:
If you have any current self cast spells on you of the same type then the group spell has no effect. Another group spell should not be able to override an existing one until the existing one wears off.
I think the direction they may (and I hope) be going is that a PPU is intended for team PvP, as in a large number, not tag teams. A PPU and another fighter class alone would be at a disadvantage to two fighters.Quote:
Originally Posted by onero S
So a PPU might boost people around 50%, which would be less usefull to PK teams, but of greater benefit to a caving or OP team.
I also see it going this way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dribble Joy
In another game i played, i dedicated 50% of my skillpoints into a profession which, when properly used, gave everybody in team something like +20 to +25% of performance. (So i myself was at around 75% of a "normal" setup. )
Alone or in small groups, it definitely was a disadvantage but when groups got bigger, like in larger scale PvP, my team outclassed most others.
Though, i also admit, supporing a big team in NC is harder than doing it in the game i mentioned, so +20% probably would not be worth it, the goal might be closer to your +50%.