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Quote:
Originally Posted by Safunte
No, this would nerf solo apus a huge huge amount.
Would not affect ppus that much.
Would do nothing to remove the apu/ppu combo>everything
Nerfing con just fucks over monks that don't have a holy s/d on. The solution to the apu/ppu issue is not to nerf monk armor nor to nerf monk con. Its to change the way apus and ppus interact
Nerfing con fucks over ppus/apus/hybrids. If you dont realize this you're sadly mistaken.Quote:
Originally Posted by onero S
Also, its not an apu/ppu issue, its an overall balance issue. By first changing the way the monks are actually setup, then can you change the way they interact with other char types. The reduction in con would drastically reduce the monks resists, both ppu and non.
PPUs dont always have s/d on, that window of opportunity would be even more beneficial with less con.
Solo apus are unheard of. They also would still be able to combat any other class with their damage output. Glass cannon description would not be unchanged.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Safunte
Umm, the purpose of balancing is to balance classes, not fuck them over, you know that right?
Why implement a change that hurts APUs the most when an apu is not in need of a nerf.
What needs ajusting is apu/ppu teams, somthing that your post does still not adress
And thats the point, solo apus are very rare, thats not a reason to fuck over solo apus even more, if anything its a reason to buff the solo apu while balancing the apu/ppu and hybrid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Safunte
bullshit, fairly sure im not the only one
SiL ..:..
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanityislost
well they are very rare these days tbh, and sil, I think you might be :P
Edit: If I'm wrong sorry, but I can't think of anyone else off the top of my head
isnt it about *insert class* + PPU vs *insert class* + *insert class*Quote:
Originally Posted by onero S
the main problem on an APU is damage without direct line of fire with point and klick aiming. maybe theres a "reloading" problem. but thats it.
the ppu problem is - the the big number of ppl he can support and wile having himself full buffed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by msdong
No, when I say apu/ppu issue I mean the issue of an apu/ppu team being much better than a blank/ppu team. IE ppus negate the differances in con between classes, not amplfy them. Leaving apus as the highest dmg class, also the most combat effective.
As for apu spells not having los, so what? As netcode gets better this won't be an issue and a solo apu is fine, they don't need dmg nerfs, or ajustments or some such, they are supposed to be the best dmg dealer. The issue is that with ppu support they are not the glass cannons they should be.
its an advantage no other class have. even if an granade launcher had an higer level its still impossible to target someting like monks do. and the most effective spells work that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by onero S
im dont say insert line of fire on every spell like guns but i just want to point out that its a big pro on their side
I agree it is a pro, but Its a pro that does not overpower solo apus, just somthing that needs to be kept in mind when apu/ppu teams are balanced or when hybrids are balanced.Quote:
Originally Posted by msdong
Melee doesn't have LoS !! But that's not even an issue worth mentioning :p
*Stands round corner slashing people*
Wouldn't really work, would it?
I havent read any of this so I'm just going to post blindly... being that APUs are that strong, should they die easier?
I saw the CON thing... I wouldnt say drop it that much. But I've seen a APU kill 100/100 mobs in less then a minute... thats stronge. So should they keep that power and die a little easier or take some of that power and be slightly less harder to kill? hmmm
And yes a PPU and APU team is God like.. impossible to kill and killing you in less then a second
Lil different with any other class... most of the time you can avoid a tank spy or pe due to the fact they have to aim... a APU hardly has to aim even if your behind something they can hit you lol long as a sent of ur hit box is visiable
rage, yes apu dmg is very strong, but a solo apu does not need to give up dmg or survivibility, he is fine the way he is. Taking away one or the other would make one unplayable.
not really, this isnt WoW or EQ, your not supposed to stand there and go toe to toe with any mob, thats what cover is there for.Quote:
Originally Posted by onero S
apu survivability is too high, it needs lowering, 10 points from con placed in either dex/str will help with this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comie
No, you're just plain wrong, pve wise, his survivibility poor, but a smart apu can manadge to get things done with his medkits and cover. In pvp however apus die VERY fast. Even in a duel apus atm are balanced with other classes. In world pvp things just get worse for the poor apu.
Any nerf in solo apu survivibility is a very bad thing at this point in time.
Edit: If apus are so uber survivable atm why don't you see any solo apus besides sil these days? And no offense to sil, but even he does not spend a great deal of time in high pvp areas on his apu.
I think APUs are already fragile. Lowering CON will end in less health and, for how the damage calculation works here in NC, you will end in being dead wihout having a clue of what killed you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by onero S
Yea its rather insane in areas such as cycrow or mb, mostly raid the dome or nc.
SiL ..:..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jezebel
not really, you take percentage damage as it is atm, so your not really losing anything be it at 70 BH or 40 BH, the numbers are lower.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comie
Comie this is stupid, tell me why apus need a con nerf.
Are they overpowered in 1v1 duels? NO
Are they overpowered solo in world pvp? NO
Are they overpowered in Group pvp with no ppu support? NO
Are they overpowered with a ppu? YES
so fix the way apus and ppus relate to each other and don't fuck up apus in all other areas.
"The APU is the prime damage dealer of the Neocron world, no other class can match the amount of devastation a single APU can deal in such a short amount of time to a single target, however since the APU is focused solely on destructive powers his defenses are next to non-existent on his own. Even with the aid of a PPU he’s effectively a glass cannon."
at the moment he is not, an APU's armor is the best there is, either you reduce the armor, or you reduce the Con and place it elsewere, yes they are over powered their pure damage output does not allow them a higher Con than that of a spy.
A con nerf would mean that an APU would be the fragile glass cannon, and a ppu would still be the fortress he is today, as it stand an APU can get the same resist set up as that of a tank... which is wrong, if were to look at the current stats of a monk including armor the Gentank would of needed to be created, the monk zerg could of done it instead at twice the speed.
im not going to go thru stats because when one doesnt want to see another sides oppinion they just wont see it, but i will tell you on experiance as a Plutionian APU that they are deadly on their own, it just ppls mindset that has made them reliant on PPU's espically with damageboost and parashock.
and besides if everyone is saying the same thing and your the only one disagreeing do you not think you may be in the wrong?
Self buff capability should remain the same as now. The PPU himself should be nearly unkillable by mob or man alike. Again, as many others have said, his effects on OTHER players should be reduced. Also, remove any ability for the PPU to do damage (ie- para should do no damage, shouldn't be able to use a baseball bat/rifle/pistol effectively if they have any PPU speced). This way, their insanely high defense is justified.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanatos
Self Buff > foreign buff. FN says it best, but it is true. If you just make it higher TL over lower, you could potentially weaken some setups (if self cast is actually stronger than the foreign, such as a PE's self cast shelter vs a 200% dmg blessed shelter, foreign cast).
PSI aiming. Viable and you base the reticle speed on psi use, so it's possible to close it in .5-1 second. At spell's cap of course. Or, you base damage dealt on reticle's "closed-ness".
Shelter blocking a certain amount of damage.... I dunno. I think if you decrease the effects foreign casts have on other people, you won't have to go here.
Limiting #of buffs at a time can be fixed the same as above. ADJUST THE EFFECTS % ON FOREIGN CAST SPELLS so that other players aren't invincible, just self cast PPU's.
Show me a viable setup that gives APUS the resists of a tank.Quote:
Originally Posted by Comie
the maximum non shelter resist you can get according to neoskiller is 76%Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogface
no imps no con resists.... just armor
http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=monk2re.jpg
/laugh at your percentages.
Armor values..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comie
Comie, its obvious you haven't played a solo apu recently, who cares what neoskiller says tbh, You are not a tank. Apus take the most dmg in game, so what if they have good armor, their total resists still make them take lots of dmg. Not to mention they have no heal at all.
They don't need a nerf just because you think you can get good resist values on neoskiller, which dirus has already said, does not calculate resists correctly.
And yes, apus have decent energy, too bad the only weapon in the game that does pure energy is hl, trust me, make a solo apu, spec him with "uber con" and then report back after a week of world pvp. Trust me you won't be singing the same tune.
Erm Comie has been playing a APU since I introduced him to NC, about 3 years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by onero S
Comie is right, monks do have the best armour in the game. Throw in a heavy belt, and get a good CON setup, and some PPU buffs, they can stay up for a long time, just as long as tanks.
Monk's agility is also very good compared with a tank, espically when you get a PA'less APU running circles around a tank. Tanks crawl around when they got their HC weapons out. The difference come in the damage dealing APU's can deal. It's way more than a tank.
APU's have real good CON and Resist setup and thier armor is nice.. its just that they cant self heal. Only real weakness is force damage. not many guns deal that over all
But if a APU could heal ( which i guess he could ) but still keep somewhere close to the amount of damage delt. he'd be god
and heh.yea monks are fast... kind of need that speed... fighting a monk in an open area. no one could win... if you can fight a monk in a closed area you stand a chance. I've seen it before in Pepper Park. The Tank was melee and choppin away... and almost died to a APU. Im thinkin dam..the APU still alive? If not for the Tanks massive health he would have been own'd fast because that damage was insane... keep in mind this is face to face combat... Melee tank vs APU and more or less going at it equally.
A PE or Spy would have died.
An APU shouldnt be able to live threw that kind of beating from a Melee tank and almost kill the Tank that close/face to face.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rage
a PE or spi wouldn't have died because there resists are better than that of a tank.
and Brammers, commie hasn't played a solo apu RECENTLY I know because I was talking to him myself the other day.
And its already been said tanks are getting a survivibility boost.
Edit: I just did the math, if an apu and a tank are getting hit with the apus strongest resist, factoring hp, the tank can take more than twice as many hits as the apu in all and takes 20% ish less pure dmg per hit. Thats on an apus strongest resist, keep in mind said tank does not have holes in his setup like an apus con does.
Correct, you was talking to him on the SXR vent the other day. Still that is no reason to flame someone, espically when the the APU monk class has hardly changed since the beginings of NC2.Quote:
Originally Posted by onero S
what does reciently got to do with anything, ive been an APU way before monkocron hit, ive been to more OP battles than you've chomped psi boosters, and fought in 16 hour marathons and died but a few times, BECAUSE of my resist setup, i dont rely on a PPU never have, to me a PPU is a bonus not a necesity, i like SIL am a lone APU.Quote:
Originally Posted by onero S
i have been an APU from the start and to the finish, with every build from KAMI to PPR/MOVEON and everything inbetween, when i say monks need a con nerfing i say it because of experiance, and from setups i have made.
You are hoiwever ignorant to every other oppinion but your own.
the tank class has not changed eather, thats why both classes are being left behind compared to PEs gaining new toys ie xbow, stealth, tl 10 heal, and spys gained xbow as well.
To top it off with the change in psi use a while back, everyone can runcast a heal now so the apus lack of heal is a downside too.
Basicly I find it funny people try and claim solo apus are overpowered when they have all but died off.
If they were really that good then why do you see hybrids, tanks, pes, spys, everything BUT apus solo these days?
Edit: then comie, why do I never see you on said solo apu?