The Big Change: IDEAS behind numbers first (Weapon Balance)

one of the greatest features NC has is the never ending lvl process. maybe WOC5 has no use right now but maybe one day...

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Originally Posted by zii

Just a quick note on OP's first post.

> -by removing the WoC 3, 4 and 5.
> (which are imho so high in farming demand that it end up making player use game flaws/exploit to xp)

Incorrect. I had WOC5 on Terra on my Spy and Tank . This was achieved without exploiting. (Of course, my eyes bled!)

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Hey Zii,

Yes it's doable but what I meant is that it will be hard to achieve without exploiting flaws of the exp curve.
For exemple, do you think WoC 5 is achievable with a melee tank, a pistol PE/SPY ? Or even a trade skiller.

It would require to LOM to drone and farm hours and hours in "broken" spots ? like El Farid or Regant bossroom, all day long like sheeps.

Doesn't sound fun at all !

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Originally Posted by William Antrim

Main concept 1 2 and 3 need their own threads.

To sum up in short however.

Main concept 1 = bad. Removing diversity will mean that everyone goes for one weapon.
[...]
Essentially you would turn the game into PE-Ocron. (I love PE's but I love diversity more).

Main concept 2 = [...] I would prefer to make these changes the OTHER way and give ALL fusion the chance to have AOE.

Main concept 3 = You want people to Woc 1 in half the time? This is good. Woc 2 at 100m xp - this might be good. What would you put into Woc 2 though? Guns and armour? Then what is the point in Woc 1? This looks like the most promising idea of the three but I would like to hear more about it personally.

So far these changes seem to have a negative impact on the game (in my opinion only) but I am keen to discuss more with you.

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Main concept 1 :

I feel like speaking chineese :p
I do not want to remove diversity, actually, I WANT more diversity ! And the end result you are drawing is the exact OPPOSITE of what I am talking about. If you equalize weapons, you have diversity in gameplay, you choose laser or a raygun for the gameplay, not because the laser is higher TL like it is right now in the game (cf Ray of God TL 98 and HL TL 110).

Main concept 2:

I understand you don't like the concepts of Range modifier in weapon damage, tho I think it's pretty fun and it add diversity. It's matter of how you see the game here /taste anyway.
Not every gun should be good for every situation imo.
And I'm very much against the idea of giving rifles an AOE weapon. It seems we already have enough AOE so far and its good that only some class can access to AOE.

Main Concerpt 3:

In the OP you can see all the details about my WoC proposal ...

I will quote myself here :

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Originally Posted by Fremen

Step one = Remove WoC 3,4 and 5.

Step two = Rework WoC 1 & 2.

Wisdom of Ceres 1 = Require 50M xp over cap in the main class attribute + 1x WoC Disc +2Mil Cash
Gives access to WOC Low Tier of WoC weapons.
Gives access to WOC Silver PA.

Wisdom of Ceres 2 = Requires 100M xp over cap in the main class attribute + 2x WoC Disc +0 Cash
Gives access to WoC High Tier of WoC Weapons.
Gives access to WoC Gold PA.


"Why lowering the xp values of WoC 1 & 2 ?
-This gives more chances for a PE to access his WoC Weapons while he can't use higher-end weaponry like spy or tanks to get more xp faster."

"Why not giving all WoC Weapons in WoC 1 ?"
-It gives a more RP values inside the WoC system, the further you seek in the WoC Disc, the more knowledge you will acquire therefor building higher tier weapons and PA."

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So please give examples of what woc stuff you put where. That's what I asked. What is higher and lower tier? All above and below 100 tech level? Giving some people aoe and some not spits in the face of balance and gives some an unfair advantage just so you know. The contradiction there is astronomical.

Balance is about PvP in my opinion as I have stated. Pve is all about having different guns to collect build and shoot mobs with. That is already all ok. Your woc suggestion has merit as a hidden buff for the pe to get his weapons quicker but who uses the pa? Seriously? They're pretty bad as is. If the pa's were more useful it might well work. However there would need to be a clear advantage given to using them - something unique but not overpowering. Personally I think woc pa should be the same as pa4 in its bonuses but weigh nothing or next to nothing.

Something small like that would give it a bonus that is not over the top.