people are trying to combine several issues into one; blaming the LE is not the problem here... enough of the rhetoric and hyperbole imho
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people are trying to combine several issues into one; blaming the LE is not the problem here... enough of the rhetoric and hyperbole imho
playing with the dictionary were you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Norris
EDIT- My post is almost as pointless as the above
this. it was middle of 2003 i believe. i started in jan. coulda been around the time i joined the forum in march. maybe earlier. definitely not 2004.Quote:
Originally Posted by William Antrim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Norris
With LE in the title it has to have something to do with it.
Okay, I raged.
I'm not asking for Neptune though.
I am asking for Neocron to be a world where every action *can* have a reaction. The simple fact is, right now, LE'd characters can treat the game like it's their own personal playground, with absolutely no repercussions whatsoever. Of course, many do.
As it stands right now, there's absolutely no reason to take out your LE until you're fully geared up. Some of the best and most memorable fights I ever had in Neocron were actually between low levelled characters around the MB bunker.
Maybe the LE shouldn't be removed; I just wish it was 1/4 people using the LE to level, and not 3/4.
having done the OP, let me change the thread title to
"how to get rid of the LE"
but before we remove this little implant, lets remember it does have a function: to keep the pvpers and the non-pvpers separate. as much as a dedicated pvp-er would be outraged if forced to act peacefully, as much a non-pvp-er would be mad for being shot unwantedly.
of course there are different ways of solving the problem. neptune *cough* and others. but would you rather want a dedicated non-pvp-server (including a limited clan-war-function), with all traders, rp-players, explorers, peaceful casual gamers moving to that place? rather not, i suppose.
the LE was in fact invented to have both groups on one server, benefitting each other. but what about the tales of early jupiter days, where no one wore an LE and wandered to any place without fear of being shot at without warning? when the Twilight Guardian used to declare cycrow being a combat zone before starting to shoot at reeza's despicable minions? when "red" runners where greeted in the endless wastes, and stopped not for murder, but a nice little chat? when OP wars were fought with large armies made up of different clans and clanless runners, for great justice? (you couldnt AoE in caves either, for everyone 'd been dead within seconds)
no wonder those two MMO cultures have ongoing propblems, and forum wars to fight: you either shoot at anything that moves, or you shoot at nothing except mutually agreed on before (exception: NPCs). now if we all would vote on either position, would you honor the outcome?
i believe some wouldnt, so we still need the LE. could you think of other measures to guarantee the absence of non consensual pvp? unless some of you comes up with a solution, we have to answer the above question with a simple
"no way, we cant".
Not sure what point you are trying to make Torg. I think this thread has had the usefulness squeezed out of it.
Since this point comes up so often, I will just comment it here as it came up again:Quote:
Originally Posted by Torg
RP Players are not LE Players. At least not all of them. In my opinion a real RP Player has to take it out since he plays a role that CAN BE SHOT. Not written to death. But thats just my view ;-)
Traders can also be non LE too, on 4 slots there are less of them of course, but I still found some.
I am RP Player, Explorer, and don't shoot on everything thats red just because its visible in my scope. But still I take my LE out as soon as it can be done.
Thats what I loved and love in Neocron: RP with PvP, since it belongs together. And I absolutly hate that (I think through new MMORPGS) introduced trend to say RPers are Non PvPers. And always when the LE comes up the RP Players are thrown in with that.
Hmm sorry for babbling, but that really ticks me off :-)
I think that comes down to two things at large:Quote:
Originally Posted by Torg
1) Roleplaying the faction you are in - were your faction may also make deals with those that are red from design and other things
2) Accountability. If your behaviour falls back unto you, it will shape your behaviour. If you can do things without repercussions bad things comes up. Thats the way of the world. (Thats why I think scamming by LE wearers should not be allowed, but thats something different)
Accountability today is low, Roleplaying too.
This conversation only exsits because of trolls, why else is this even an issue? Think about it, what possible advantage is it to force people to take LE's out or not have them at all. BTW i love how this only came up only after a few certian trolls cap'd out on Titan before everyone else...lol
Not sure which 'trolls' you're referring to with your underhanded piss-ant remark, but I don't even have a capped character, let alone WoC & gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Norris
A forum by definition is a medium to exchange ideas and opinions, is it not? With that in mind, my opinion is, and always has been that the LE doesn't do this game any favours. I have formed this opinion from my experiences in game, from which, I can honestly say that LE'd players cause me more problems than non-LE'd players.
I'd rather be ganked than be griefed by an LE player parking on top of my loot, or blocking a spawn. Why? Because I can deal with the former one way or another, but not with the latter. I'm certain I'm not alone in that opinion.
You took that rather personally, even though nothing was directed at you
Love your monolithic view point, the abuse goes both ways you know this dont play dumb. Although I guess if anyone disagrees with you on "A forum by definition is a medium to exchange ideas and opinions, is it not?" they are underhanded piss-ant remarks.... get over yourself man
I agree with LOki, i cant do anything against an LE runner and it pisses me off. Especially because most of the time the LEd runner is not a new player but an old player knowing exactly what he's doing : griefing with impunity.
I hated how the other day this LE runner/driver was outrepping my damage on his rhino, while un-LEd gunner shot at me. I was pissed and logged off the damn game because of it.
I also hated this LEd droner threats to block Regent bossroom reset because I was taking all the XP and wouldnt team him.
Also hate all the LEd runners goin AFK in CRP and then the mob spawn bugs and you cant reset the damn place.
Here's a quick fix :
Make the damn chip loose condition like all others, and make hunting-grounds like warzones with no SL, item, and FS loss.
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kame
Yeah, because that will fix problems with LE'd people.
Here is a prime example of what im talking about lmfaoQuote:
Originally Posted by Kame
or hes just trolling his ass off here
I agree with LOki, i cant do anything against an LE runner and it pisses me off. Especially because most of the time the LEd runner is not a new player but an old player knowing exactly what he's doing : griefing with impunity.
I hated how the other day this LE runner/driver was outrepping my damage on his rhino, while un-LEd gunner shot at me. I was pissed and logged off the damn game because of it.
I also hated this LEd droner threats to block Regent bossroom reset because I was taking all the XP and wouldnt team him.
Also hate all the LEd runners goin AFK in CRP and then the mob spawn bugs and you cant reset the damn place.
Here's a quick fix :
Make the damn chip loose condition like all others, and make hunting-grounds like warzones with no SL, item, and FS loss.