Dear KK (Kirk); please, please do something.

logic has never had any result either. The only things that have ever gotten anything done was either threatening to go to the BP forums, or actually opening a thread on the BP forums. Just check any time Kirk has been on here, is when KK is afraid of gamigo/bp customers finding out just how badly KK and in particular Kirk is at customer relations, bordering on customer loathing.

Just because you have a higher tolerance for people lieing to you, doesn't mean the rest of us (or in this case me and a few others) can't vent our views on yet another example.

I know my fuse is very short for the things that happen on here, and I apologize to those that take offense, or feel that it is counter productive. None of this anger is directed at anyone on here except for the people responsible for the abysmal communication from KK.

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Originally Posted by Biglines

logic has never had any result either. The only things that have ever gotten anything done was either threatening to go to the BP forums, or actually opening a thread on the BP forums. Just check any time Kirk has been on here, is when KK is afraid of gamigo/bp customers finding out just how badly KK and in particular Kirk is at customer relations, bordering on customer loathing.

Just because you have a higher tolerance for people lieing to you, doesn't mean the rest of us (or in this case me and a few others) can't vent our views on yet another example.

I know my fuse is very short for the things that happen on here, and I apologize to those that take offense, or feel that it is counter productive. None of this anger is directed at anyone on here except for the people responsible for the abysmal communication from KK.

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And you're right to be angry. I just don't think venting it on here is going to do anything productive.

You said it yourself, the only thing that has gotten results is posting on BP forums or threatening to. That's why I suggested we make logical posts on the BP forums. Post the timers on there, expose the lack of communication that has happened over the years on BP forums and around the internet. This can all accomplish something without anger and flaming at KK, and we will more than likely (If they actually care) get a better response from them for being considerate and not flaming.

We need to point out facts, not our rage. Facts will get the attention of BP, not people raging on here. And at the end of the day, if they don't care about Neocron and just want to satisfy us then that is who we want to get the attention of.

Rage isn't going to get you anywhere.

By all means, vent away. I'm just saying it's wrong and not going to accomplish anything in the big picture.

Edit: I'm not going to sit here and defend my point until everyone agrees with it. That is up to all of you. If you can post something that will actually show this anger will do something, then I can agree with that. I simply don't see anything productive coming out of it, but I can see more negatives coming out of it.

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Originally Posted by CoreInsanity

And you're right to be angry. I just don't think venting it on here is going to do anything productive.

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It does, it makes me feel better, and it saves me going to a therapist ;)

of the 2600+ posts I made in the past 4-5 years, about 2400 are me trying my hardest to either be funny, helpful or reasonable. I have personally tried my best to do positive things, conclude factual summaries for people to respond to, clear up misunderstanding etc. Like the summary of questions I made, I'm all for proper and factual communication. It's just I don't like for that effort to be spat on, and as such I regetfully resort to trolling to vent frustration built from powerlessness. I just feel this is more healthy than keeping that anger inside.

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Originally Posted by Biglines

It does, it makes me feel better, and it saves me going to a therapist ;)

of the 2600+ posts I made in the past 4-5 years, about 2400 are me trying my hardest to either be funny, helpful or reasonable. I have personally tried my best to do positive things, conclude factual summaries for people to respond to, clear up misunderstanding etc. Like the summary of questions I made, I'm all for proper and factual communication. It's just I don't like for that effort to be spat on, and as such I regetfully resort to trolling to vent frustration built from powerlessness. I just feel this is more healthy than keeping that anger inside.

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I can understand that, and I do think well of you (And everyone else here really) for what you have done here over the years. Please don't get me wrong and think I wasn't :).

Some people deal with stuff differently, that is one thing I have learned over time.

It's not that I have a high tolerance, I just put a different value on things like this. I used to get mad before I did that, but it led to a lot of stress. This leads to me not really helping (I had out money when I see new players, I will help the community when I'm in the position to. I just don't go out of my way.)

CoreInsanity is right, who's to say Reakktor/Kirk are gonna come on here to give us news if we just get p!ssed off at them and complain. As has been said before I'm new and don't understand everything about the past of 'Cron, but if we stay optimistic good things will happen.

I know it's difficult to stay hopeful for something over long periods of time (got excluded from school about 1 and a half years ago, I got very close to giving up on school and just not bothering many times, still not back in school too!). :P

I find it amusing that people say theres been a lack of communication for the last 6 years, shit, KK have had a shitty com structure since end of Beta4/start of retail lol!

This aint nothing new!

Children...

Honestly? It would take Kirk a week alone to read through this entire thread.

I mean look at these replies? I haven't read a single one unless its quoting me.. Crazy people around here.

All of the questions were compacted into a single post which was then sent to Kirk. He doesn't need to read the thread.

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Originally Posted by MrDomino

All of the questions were compacted into a single post which was then sent to Kirk. He doesn't need to read the thread.

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You're judging him based off of what you think you know, that is the same crap that leads to stereotypes and other stupid garbage like that. The fact is you don't know what he is having to go through. You don't know if his hands are tied, or if he's just leading you on. You don't know his schedule, or what's going on in the company or his personal life. You simply have no idea aside from the fact that he's on a plane.

You know, it's cool you could write out a masters thesis in a hotel room. I'm happy for you, it's still not running a business (Especially one that is failing). You can put the masters thesis aside and type an e-mail, Kirk can't put business on hold just to reply to this. He has to have the free time to do so, I'm sure.

Yes, the posts are all compiled into one, thanks to Biglines for that. However, he still has to read them and come up with a response to them. He probably has to evaluate his plans for the game and in general what they want to do (Unless you just want some watered down crap).

If you were my employee you would be in the position to have to update me on what's going on. I would be mad if you just randomly vanished and didn't tell me why, or didn't update me on projects that are going on. So yes, you were able to make time for your boss.

You aren't Kirks boss, no one here is. He has, really, no obligation at all to answer us. If he does so, he does it out of his own courtesy. He probably doesn't check this forum constantly due to time, that might be why it works when you go to BP (BP is the game they actively develop, so naturally he would be paying attention to the opinions on that to see what people there are thinking about the game). It could be he expects we will post on there when we want a response or attention, who knows.

Now, I can understand being mad, especially if you spend a lot of time helping the community. As I said, my main point is that anger isn't going to accomplish anything in this case, and really we are at their will as to what happens to this game and how much information we get. He has no obligation, it's not like we are investors.

Buffer Overflow To Kirk!

Again, THIS IS HIS JOB! He's running a company! I am (well, was) a customer so it's my right to voice my opinion. If he can't find a few seconds to write out a response in four weeks then he's ineffective at his position and needs to step aside or hire someone else to take up the slack. Simply ignoring a large part of your fan base is unacceptable. To say that I'm stereotyping Kirk by saying that it isn't hard to write out a response while traveling is asinine. This isn't the 1800s anymore. I'm sure he has a smartphone and laptop with him. If I can put together a Masters thesis in a hotel room, he sure as hell can write a quick update for us. There's no excuse anymore. Kirk's lack of communication is unacceptable and indicative of ineffective leadership. I'm sorry that my approach doesn't fit inside your worldview but based on my life experiences I've found that things don't happen unless you get angry.

Reakktor has made it clear that the only thing that does accomplish anything is anger. Constructive action does nothing with them.

Alright so here we go:

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Originally Posted by MrDomino

Again, THIS IS HIS JOB! He's running a company! I am (well, was) a customer so it's my right to voice my opinion.

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You WERE a customer, as you said. His job is to run the company, not respond to you. His job is to make connections on what he needs connections on. He needs to promote the current product (After all, all they have is one).

Right now, the priority is Black Prophacy, not a dead game that they don't even need, nor can they even develop right now.

You're not even paying for the game anymore, sure you can voice your opinion here. You can because he lets you, not because it's some right you have.

You aren't entitled to jack squat. This isn't even a big source of income for them, I think pretty much everyone plays for free right now. This is crap for making money compared to BP right now, plus they have investors with BP not this. They don't *need* this game at all. In fact, the investors would probably prefer it if they dropped the game all together.

And all this negative rep you seem to think this is generating wouldn't mean crap if they shut it down. What are you going to go make a website and voice your dislike for them there? I honestly don't think most of the BP community would care.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrDomino

If he can't find a few seconds to write out a response in four weeks then he's ineffective at his position and needs to step aside or hire someone else to take up the slack. Simply ignoring a large part of your fan base is unacceptable.

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lol. Ok, first off you don't even know that they have the money to hire some guy to respond to this. I myself would have tried really hard to reply here, I can't say he could have or not though because I don't know what position he is in. Furthermore, even if they did hire some one that would take more time and effort than it would to just reply, let along cost money as I mentioned.

Second, large part of their fan base? This game is dead, you said it yourself. There's like what, 80 to 100 people that log into the game at the most, and far less who actually post on the forums? I could run a private server for some other not well known game off of my crappy laptop upstairs and get more people than that without even doing anything but setting up the server and my router.

Loyal? Yes. Large? No. It would be nice to get something for that loyalty, but it's your mistake if you expect to. We aren't talking about being a loyal customer of a game that is still alive and being maintained, we are talking about being loyal to a dead horse that we hope they will come revive.

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Originally Posted by MrDomino

To say that I'm stereotyping Kirk by saying that it isn't hard to write out a response while traveling is asinine.

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I'm not saying you're stereotyping him, I'm saying you're judging him. Judging some one without knowing their position, responsibilities, plans or anything in between at that. You don't know jack squat about him aside from he's on a plan and what you can guess from reading the forums. If you do know more please share it. For all you know he is having to do research on a meeting or something he is going to. You don't know what he's doing on that plane, and rather than asking you moan saying he should be giving you information instead.

Again, I'm not saying you were stereotyping him, I'm saying the two are related. Stereotyping comes from people judging some one, if you stereotype some one you have to judge them. You are judging, you just aren't applying a stereotype. Both are equally wrong.

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Originally Posted by MrDomino

This isn't the 1800s anymore. I'm sure he has a smartphone and laptop with him. If I can put together a Masters thesis in a hotel room, he sure as hell can write a quick update for us.

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Sure, I think he could have mustered the time to say "Sorry guys I have been really busy with (X)". That would be a quick update. But if he had done that, really, I think that would be fueling the fire just as well. He knows the only thing that's going to get through is answering the questions. This isn't going to be a "quick update". I don't think any of us are going to be satisfied if he "quick update" answers the questions. I want real answers or nothing at all, honestly.

He could also tell L0KI to go ahead and post what he told him, we don't really know what that is or to what extent stuff was discussed. But he obviously satisfied L0KI for a while, and I see no reason to just tell L0KI and have him keep it quiet to piss the rest of you off, unless he actually wanted to deliver the message himself because he still cares about the game and us to some degree.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrDomino

There's no excuse anymore. Kirk's lack of communication is unacceptable and indicative of ineffective leadership. I'm sorry that my approach doesn't fit inside your worldview but based on my life experiences I've found that things don't happen unless you get angry.

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Then leave. If I don't like the service at a store, I leave.

Go ahead, rage away. Have at it, I bet you wont get jack in the long term. If what you seem to be saying is true, then honestly nothing we do is going to make a difference and we might as well leave. The only hope we have for the game continuing or them giving us information is if they actually care. If they don't, either way you go we are wasting time.

The point you seem to be missing is simple; This game doesn't HAVE to matter to them, therefore you don't have to matter to them. Your time doesn't have to matter to them, your opinion doesn't have to matter to them. This game is dead right now, it's fan base is dead and insignificant and apparently all it can do is get mad on this forum where they don't even have to read it.

You seem to think you can rage and get results, that's what is needed right? Man up and do it then, else your just spouting "I'm(/we are) entitled and special" garbage because you can write a thesis in a hotel room and you used to pay for the the service of being able to play for the game. And if it's not worth your time, then what are you doing here?

Add to all of this, we are talking about a freaking game. Not even something serious. This is a company, not a best friend/whatever.

"Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me."
How many times have you been fooled? Who's fault is that now, really?

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Originally Posted by flib

Reakktor has made it clear that the only thing that does accomplish anything is anger. Constructive action does nothing with them.

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If this is the case then what are we still doing here? They obviously don't care about the game or us if the only way to get anything is to get mad at them.

Words words words.

Stop telling me what to do. I'll rage at KK and Kirk if I feel like it.

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Originally Posted by MrDomino

Words words words.

Stop telling me what to do. I'll rage at KK and Kirk if I feel like it.

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Like I said, go ahead. I didn't tell you not to, I said it won't do any good and they don't have to care what you think.

Edit: Also if you had bothered to read my post you would see I'm not telling you what to do.