Community Project: Neocron DeathMatch modification in Source engine

Hi guys! Sorry for the short leave of abscence... life things going on.

Anyhow, I must be the stupidest individual on the face of the planet. I can't get totoiseSVN to update only the files that have changed since I uploaded all that stuff. I followed Biglines' instructions from a few pages ago, but no luck so far. Can I get a kindergardener's intro to tortoiseSVN and how to use it? I can redownload EVERYTHING no problem, but that takes time and bandwidth (so no multitasking).

And, I have no updates at this time. I will get the desks and sign from the SVN soon and update some areas in my map.

@Biglines:
My map source files should all be on the SVN in the /NCSource SRC/mapsrc folder, named something Plaza1... I uploaded the entire SRC file directory and the compiled MOD as well. Of course, if it isn't, It's probably because of the aforementioned ineptitude towards tortoiseSVN.

Don't beat yourself up too much Whitestuff- version control is a headache at first :)


-Right click on the root project folder, SVN update

(Assuming that fails please respond with the error here or in a pm/email and I can help diagnose the issue)

sorta dieing :( :( :( :( :(

not really, just I'm working on my pe pa, which takes a lot longer than the simpler stuff I've been doing. I know the pepper park map is coming along, and I've finished almost all the world object we need badly.

true we could do with some new screenshots on here :P

The aforementioned life problems are getting sorted. Still, 2 weeks to get moved and back online, plus, it's the holidays and in my RL job, that means work your ass off plus the guy's ass who is next to you as well. Ah... the wonderful world of retail sales... Shoot me. :(

During the week I will try to put up some screen shots, playing catch up this week on other life stuff.

Apoligies again for dropping off the face of the planet.

Can one of the head guys in this PM me the details concerning the SVN and whatnot, ive not worked on a project where this has been implemented.

Any pics of Pepper Park yet? :)

@Omnituens - PM your details! (I know the thread is long so I don't blame you for not trying to find that post).
(And a reminder of who you are/what you do- I have been out of the loop also).

I need a user name and password of your choosing


Anyone can 'read' the svn with the following information
http://g0dsoft.net/ncsource/

Hi,

Just wanted to crit a few things.

-The circular lights in the back of your medicare are quite posh (and not very sci-fi). There is most likely a flat corona texture you could use for the lights, instead of those prop lights.

-The glass looks much better now (less opaque) but I swear those medicare doors should be a tad wider! (wider, not thicker)

-I agree with your concept of preserving the Neocron aesthetics but still taking slight liberties in small areas - such as the Medicare interior handrail. But I think you've gone too far with the exterior railing. These railings look a bit too fancy, like a high quality shopping mall or something. I assume you wanted to address how the glass unrealistically meets with the floor texture, so you designed the railing in a new way, but what about something simpler - maybe leaving the "post" rails thick, then making the top handrail part thin, and also having a thin trim at the bottom, like this?

-I do like your steps above Medicare, but here I am sure you've strayed too far from the original 'blocky' feel. Plus, there were streetlamps attached to the handrail of the original ramp, as well as some other railings. It would be easier to keep those streetlamps in if you left it as a ramp with metal railing, I think. Not to mention, now, the trashcans under those stairs would look strange, as you can see through the glass floor into the trash!

-May I ask which Neocron textures you are emulating with the textures in this post? Just curious because I don't recall those textures in NC, and I'm also a texture artist, so I could give it a try if you want. (I feel those you've posted are quite bright and without much contrast)

-The outzone 2 screens are awesome, but it feels a tad more cramped than normal - the ceilings feel very low and it only takes a few steps to cross what seemed to be larger areas in NC. Could just be my imagination? But, if it never can be perfect, remember that in map design, having an area one foot too wide is better than one foot too small, since we need all the room we can get to run/jump around and fight.

-I think the GoGuardian keyboard texture has a place for arrow keys, insert/home/delete/end/etc, and a numpad. Could be wrong about the numpad, but I definitely remember little arrow keys on those. :)

I like everything done so far and I think the project is awesome, just some little minor things I've noticed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Izeo

-I think the GoGuardian keyboard texture has a place for arrow keys, insert/home/delete/end/etc, and a numpad. Could be wrong about the numpad, but I definitely remember little arrow keys on those. :)

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that keyboard is just a mirrored one (the whole thing has mirrored textures), I'd redo the whole thing, but this is just an intermediary skin I did really quick to have it look like a gogo)


as for the handrails, I think we should use models instead of brushes, all modern games use models to do this kind of work, I feel the detailing of the maps is just not fine enough for a modern mod, then again, it would take ages of work if we don't get extra modelers,because I'll be busy with uni for another 4 weeks

Oh, mirrored texture, understood.

I'd be against model-based railings, though. Usually, for those model-based railings, the mapper designs his map in a way that will perfectly line up with the prefabricated railing models. Since Plaza 1 for example is already made, there's no guarantee that sections that need railings will be perfect multiples of 64, which is what the HL2 railing model chunks need to fit properly. A section might be 160 units or 224 or something. With geometry railings of course you can just extend the rail/trim brushes to fit your area, with post brushes at corners.

But the best reason though is if too much detail goes into new railings, it may start straying too far from NC's feel, which was my issue with the exterior railing and the ramp steps above Medicare

the neocron feel is not based upon blocky low resolution geometry, it's about the artistic feel. just like counterstrike source still feels like counterstrike (at least visually), while it is about a hundredfold more detailed.

Well, to start, I don't think Counter-Strike or Counter-Strike: Source has much of an atmosphere, therefore, it's much easier to update the graphics to improve the game, since there was no story/atmosphere/feel/whatever to damage. But take Deus Ex, for example. Deus Ex 1 was an outstanding game. Deus Ex 2? It looked better, but in other areas, it was injured because they took something that was already great and changed it too much. Deus Ex 3 will be the same thing, I think, (straying away from the original) except it will have even better graphics.

However, just one example doesn't disprove your argument - I know. I do agree that it is possible to improve something graphically (or in another way) without damaging it in theory. In practice, it's possible, but is much easier said than done. Liberties need to be taken very carefully if preserving the feel is the most important thing to you. Having the HL2 version look exactly the same as NC would be silly, yes, but having it look too different would be worse.

I know I'm not a member of this project, and you are a member, and therefore I know that I'm fighting a losing battle here. We each have our opinions, but yours will probably hold more weight. All I can do is point out things and explain my reasoning, which I've already done a few posts back where I listed a few details I thought could be worked on.

Other than that, I'll leave you with some relevant quotes from Whitestuff and Nidhogg (Nid's post being from a different, older topic) that I agree with. I know that White did say he planned on making more drastic adjustments in this quote, but he also said he feels if he changes things too much, it will turn out to be something completely different. I felt the things I posted in my earlier post crossed that line and ended up being something completely different (those steps, and railings), but who am I to say, also, maybe Whitestuff has changed his views by now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Whitestuff

I guess there is a certain aesthetic that Neocron has, that is brought out by the type of architecture that KK has designed. I am updating some things as I go, for example, the handrail on the ramp is actually structured rather than painted on the texture. As I move out from Medicare I plan on making moer drastic adjustments, but staying true to the feel of Neocron is very important to me. Sure I could go in and remodel Medicare the way I want, but I don't think that would do the game any justice.

Just my opinion.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Whitestuff

As I said before, it isn't my intention to change the archetechture of Neocron drastically. I want to preserve the feel of NC while updating it. I feel like if I change too much, it's gonna turn out to be something completely different.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nidhogg

The problem is that a new engine does not necessarily mean a great looking level. I've seen plenty of renditions of NC levels in various engines and I've still not seen anything that approaches the atmosphere achieved by our "ancient engine".

N

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hehe, you can be a member if u want :P just contribute and your a member :P

and seeing some of the concept artwork whitestuff did, he reconsidered the opinion u were showing :P

tbh, I don't know if you played counterstrike for any length of time, but it really has a good atmosphere in the original official maps

like nidhogg said, the level of detail doesn't make the atmosphere, it's the artistic whole of the level. even if you make every detail exactly 1on1 copy, if there was the music missing, or the mice running around the floors, the atmosphere wouldn't be the same. That's why I'd prefer to base it on a modern level of detail, and try to get the same kind of atmosphere, copying 1on1 will only ever feel like a cheap ripoff. if all we bring to the game is maybe one or two years of graphic upgrade, we might as well stop now