Can someone please tell me the current state of teaming (xp)with regards to le and non le players? Can a non le ppu buff and resurect an le?
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Can someone please tell me the current state of teaming (xp)with regards to le and non le players? Can a non le ppu buff and resurect an le?
I have no issue with LE clans, it's actually not a bad idea.
Though I must say I think it would be unfair that LE's get unrestricted access to high level / end game area's without running the risk of being killed.
And my only reason for this is stated in one of my previous posts - there is only one area MC5 to farm techs from, it's not right for LE players to camp these area's with no threat of removal or no risk of being attacked.
If the game had instances then it would not be an issue, but it's not something I can see coming any time soon.
Us old time players have a responsibility I feel not to grief low level players for the sake of it, a bit of RP grief can actually have a positive effect if it's done properly, nothing like a mugging for a reasonable sum of protection money to make a player feel that this is a ruthless cyberpunk mmo and I have done this to several players recently who found it all very entertaining.
It also makes players think twice about running into area's that are not safe without being prepared as there is a real risk if being ganked by a pk'er.
But getting back on track, I agree something needs to be adjusted to help new players out to keep them in game.
A non LE ppu can buff an LE runner and res them if they die.Quote:
Originally Posted by hudsonbeck
Good point with the areas and MC5, it's quite hard to find a good balance.Quote:
Originally Posted by DIS
Also, even if it sounds corny, I would be up for a "neighborhood grief watch" if you'd call it that.
For the sake of helping noobs and our beloved game I could even see the groups being mixed reds/non reds (since we aren't that many to be honest) and keep a NAP running while in the watch group (leveling groups can have an unspoken NAP going, so for the sake of the goal we're trying to accomplish it shouldn't be that much of a stretch on the nerves).
EDIT: Obviously it should not go so far that everyone thinks they can run around as if they were LEd with their personal body guards, but just keep it to certain areas.
Seriously man, no doubt. Neocron is a harsh universe. Should be this way. Carebears are funnyQuote:
Originally Posted by William Antrim
This thread is funny. 125 players at peak and crying about Law enforcer. How about growing some balls and removing it? This is at core an open pvp game. I remove it at around 30 rank and dont cry when getting ganked. Get poked and level elsewhere. Neocron is huge.
https://youtu.be/CGc99BYy83Q
This 2 hour 17 minutes stream was captured using a rank 35-40 non le'd tank. In pepper park in an event.
The law enforcer argument is a dead horse. You don't experience the real Neocron until you remove it.
My clan is leveling 4 non-LE runners in OZ7 right now. Come kill us!! We've announced it on Help and no one has showed up. How hard is it to get ganked???
spread out and don't have others waiting there... Unless you are a newbie and don't like 1 v 1 with capped character vs a leveling one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake6k
So tired of these threads. Nothing constructive comes from them and LE voices are never heard. No compromises are made, LE players are just told to deal with it and move on. They even introduced the ability to target and destroy an LE players vehicle citing fairness when farming. I see the argument but it just add's to the imbalance instead of making things fair.
How anyone can state this is a PvP game is bizarre. All those shiny weapons and armour you love, come from PvE. CS:GO is PvP. Battlefield is PvP. NC is not, but you still can.
I've tried PvP, I don't enjoy and don't see the point of it. I tried it in NC1 when it was rampant, but it just doesn't do it for me. The rest of the game, of which there is a great deal, I do enjoy. But just because I don't enjoy it doesn't mean I want to nerf the experience for others by forcing a damn LE into their heads.
Give us clans, maybe even our own zone to farm techs for some passive items (trade skill etc), give us encouragement to play the game.
I know this'll all fall on deaf ears, it always does. After so very many of these threads and many, many more posts, I no longer have any faith or belief that it will change. We'll just be looked down upon and ridiculed as always. Consider this a final, shot in the dark, plea for change.
We just leveled during peak hours 4-5 of us without LEs at OZ7. I announced our location on here, on help 3x, and on Discord. No one showed up to kill us! We're around rank /30 now and still haven't died a single time. What a joke.
LEs aren't even slightly necessary. Take them out and play the real game. We're trying to make a point here.
Come kill us? Please!?? Where are the gankers!?
Edit: taking a break now for dinner, killed myself with a barrel
Before we went there, I took out my LE in pepper park and stood in-front of non le's while doing it at 0/2 ... didn't get ganked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake6k
At level 12 I chased a level 40 around the zone with a shitty flame thrower, didn't get ganked.
Ran around pepper park during Jones missions, used OZ ind A and those area's, ran through PP1 passed red players... not getting ganked.
Went AFK in OZ 6 to type this post, got ganked :)
So motto is, don't do stupid stuff and you are less likely to die.
What happened if LE would be patched out? And no SI, no Belt drop, and Imp drop out till */30 ?
And -33 SL if you kill a friendly faction?
And -11 if you kill a neutral (its like no attack pact) faction?
And +22 if you kill an enemy faction?
****To focus more on the factions than on runners?*****
At the moment factions are not that important, only for epic rewards. Most dont care about the faction and history if they like to kos all in noob areas they will do. Like in a ego shooter. I suggest more -SL for friendly and some -SL for neutral kills.
Or what happened if there is no neutral faction? Only friendly and enemy? Neutral is like free kill.
Green and Red Color only would be nice.
Factions makes no sense. Who cares? I dont like :/
SL and symp loss for killing friendly is already very high.Quote:
Originally Posted by Relug
Also, what if an ally faction attacks you? Self defense can mean losing a lot of SL/symp currently and it would be even worse with what you just suggested.
I hear ya Jodo. I also agree with you.
I have thought about it more and see Triv's point about it being a bonus and can accept the xp malice equaling out. I guess I am more ok with getting less xp on my LE runner. Can anyone tell me the % out of curiosity?
Jodo don't get discouraged, there are many in agreement. It's just a shame the 'hardcore' 'bad asses' are and have always been the loudest voice. There is always room for compromise. People play NC for many reasons.
Maybe I'll take a lesson from REVKaH and post over and over in the span of a few minutes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake6k
To my point Drake6k, what happened before? All the 'hardcore' badasses' (nonCarebares) went around killing every nonLE and ended up with way negative SL and FS and quit. Then everyone complained it was too hard to regain SL (wait, isn't that carebearish... it's a harsh world remember - deal with the consequences right?) so they couldn't or wouldn't come back. What happened? SL regain and missions were changed to help these 'hardcore' 'badasses'. Now the can come back and do a few missions and AFK in their apt to regain SL. 'Hardcore' 'badasses' are so funny.
All the LE people are asking for is a little compromise. Who knows how complicated it is to allow joining clans... or just LE clans... whatever. Is there any intellectual argument against? That's a serious question.
I'm sure there are other things that would be nice but just an open, non combative, intelligent dialogue would be a great start.
Nobody has answered my question yet though, you have a million different programs (voip/skype/discord) to keep a clan/community together outside the game but for some reason the thread starter thinks LE players need to be in a clan. Why is that? What benefit is there that clans give that the LE guy needs it?
The rest of you guys have launched into a huge discussion surrounding the pvp angle and I agree with points on both sides but the problem you have is this - the LE abusers down the years have ruined many people's views on the LE chip. Using it in ways it was never intended (dungeon blocking, corpse camping in a vehicle, MC5 blocking etc etc) gives people a sour taste when you see those two initials.
LE players already get complete invulnerability to go about the game, this game needs people fighting just as it needs people tradeskilling. It needs combat at its core to be Neocron. If you guys turn it into a big mIRC cyberpunk chatroom with 5 slot "weapons" that nobody uses then it will stagnate and die. The fact that it is OWPVP (which is a niche market) and the fact that it is NOW easy to cap a char and use ANY gun in the game to pvp with has I think perhaps escaped some of you.
The balancing team did not put 3+ years of their lives into this game to balance the PVP just so that you bunch of carebears could stand around plaza 1 telling each other how wonderful you are and how that Twilight Guardian inquisition suit really matches your eye liner. They balanced the guns so you could pull out a TS assault rifle and blow that fuckers head off while you take his outpost, destroy his clan's credibility and sex his fucking corpse.
Jesus christ guys, stop being so fucking carebear and pick up a weapon and fight back if you get pked :). When i started playing if we got pked we levelled up like a bastard to fight that guy back. We used to write names on a notepad for fucks sake so we had a hitlist to get em back one day.
Reputations were made and lost on the streets of Pepper Park, now it seems like reputations are washed away from a flood of tears.
This game has pvp at its heart. If you dont like that and its not your thing then fair play, you have a working system that does what you need it to do and comes with consequences, it is up to you whether or not you choose to accept those consequences but please dont turn the game into a chat room with 100 LE players stroking each others egos. You will ruin NC with that.
I dont like LE too. But i like the idea to take out this after dead penalty "SI+drop out imps" for low lvl noobs, instead LE.
No penalty to rank */30 after dead. And all are happy
@William
My question was why it issnt possible?
Everybody play NC like they want, true?
Play NC like a Shooter, ignore Faction standings? No problem
Play NC with mates together in a clan, do PVE together. but he/she dont like be ganked and dont like/cannot teamspeak, this is a problem?
Change all the time chat channel, write a message double? Most time i cannot use teamspeak too when it get late...
The current community is a little soft if I knew how to get to oz7 I'd come along to grief some noobs. Got bored of looking for itQuote:
Originally Posted by Drake6k
Couple of replies later and we're getting called carebears again. No compromise, no respect.Quote:
Originally Posted by hudsonbeck
Why do people have a problem with an LE clan? It wouldn't even affect other players. All sorts of creative arguments to make life difficult and less enjoyable for LE players from people who flat out hate the LE and don't want to use it. We want to use it and we'd love to have a clan also. Why? A greater sense of belonging, an act of unity and a statement of intent. Also, it'd make the game more fun for us.
I think the XP punishment can be removed.
But i suggest a 50% malus on earned credits, there should be a trade off somewhere.
If you guys can all find a way to stop the le being abused I'm war zones - like disabling it - and stop the other ways it can be abused then I'd say OK have le'd clans.
My reason for posting this is not to flame those who wear the le but to discourage that behaviour.
This is the problem, LE players will abuse their advantage, I don't blame them... but us players who enjoy to play the game as it was intended suffer in the long run.Quote:
Originally Posted by William Antrim
Another option to reduce the chance of being ganked by allies is to make having high Faction Symp and Soul Light a big advantage.
High Soul Light players could enjoy free GenReps within Neocron and the Outzones, while high faction sympathy could offer heavy discounts within faction HQ shops and even free GR's to faction controlled outposts.
There are all sorts of benefits that could be added to game that would encourage allied players to stick together.
Yes there will always be a allied player who ganks or attacks you, but that's something you learn to accept.
This does all not work, as you can have mulitple chars and accounts to support the "evil" chars.
Your char name is known? All too bad SL?
No problem get the equipment and level a new one.
The punishmet system means nothing.
Are victims of ganking not making a mountain out of a mole hill here?
I mean how often do you honestly get ganked while levelling a low level character? And if out hunting warbies or fire mobs, if you choose your zones well then its unlikely you will see another runner for hours on end.
There will always be gankers at MB as there will always be new players leveing there, they go there because people tell them to, the same with El Faraid, but there are plenty of other area's with good spawns that gankers are unlikely to venture to, they go to MB because it is easy to do so.
Yes there other places that are less accessible than MB, but one should consider the amount of times he/she is ganked vs a slower spawn rate/lack of city com terminal and the community should give new players places to go other than MB, let them know MB is dangerous, but these other places are not as good for XP but are considered safer.
Perhaps the dev team can place citycom terminals throughout the outzone sectors and the wastes where there are launcher or equivalent mutant spawns.
Certainly increasing the spawn rates in these "other" areas where required would also encourage players to venture there.
I think there are a couple discussions going on here Dis. One side, me included keep in the le in because when I'm low level I don't want to be ganked by a guy twice my level while I'm leveling and engaged with a mob. I don't have the time to spend getting pokes and traveling back to leveling areas. My play time is limited more than it was 15 years ago. I originally questioned the malice to xp saying it wasn't just. I changed my mind because there were good points and I see the reasoning now. I'm sure there are others with this opinion but I'm only speaking for myself.
There are others that want to be able to have the clan aspect with having an LE in... I have yet to see an intelligent reason why people oppose this ability.
I'm sure the technical/code aspect would be huge but that's not what we're are discussing.
I suppose the mind-set for LE removal was to get players more involved in PVP, if you are in a clan and you are levelling, then its likely you will fight an opposing clan or faction member to break up the monotony of levelling. That's how it always was in NC1 for me, but I enjoy that sort of thing.
Things have changed dramatically since early NC1, there are not the same volumes of players competing with each other and higher level players who are bored will pick on non LE's, I know that's always been the case, but there were larger clans policing area's for their own clan mates and they tended to leave lower level non LE's alone, even of enemy factions. Or the clans tended to know other spots that were seldom visited by ganking squads.
As I mentioned in a previous post, I have no issue with an LE clan, or for LE players to join non LE clans... however there should be restrictions on access to end game hunting spots, I.E the ability to be attacked and killed. I think those restrictions are just and would keep things balanced and fair for all players.
NST need to make the game accessible to everyone, I do feel that the PVP crowd should ease their stance some-what, LE's deserve to be in a clan if they choose, XP and money malice are in place so removing the chip has a positive effect as well as giving an extra brain slot.
But, LE players need to understand that if they choose to enter an end game levelling area/warzone they should be just as vulnerable to attack as everyone else, that way it keeps zones free from LE clans who would abuse their status and the PVP players don't feel backed into a corner.
For me personally, I like the game how it is... but if change is what is needed to keep the game populated then so be it.
You cant put people into categories, sides or pigeon holes here at all. You are talking about a game mechanic which is working as intended but is subject to some horrific abuse at times. It is a divisive issue, make no mistake about that, but trying to coral people into a specific group is not the way to foster good discussion.
To be honest, I have never been a huge fan of how the LE chip is implemented and works. But I still keep it on most of my characters.
Why?
My main reason is that I'm more into the PvE and exploration aspects of the game and less into the faction wars and hardcore PvP.
Although it probably would be fun learning to PvP now and then for a change, I enjoy being able to hunt and explore in peace and quiet without having to look out for, or even being driven away by some hardcore PvP asshat who has no self control towards players who are not experienced and/or high level enough to hold their own ground. I'm not calling everyone asshats, but it only takes ONE to ruin the game for a non-PvP'er, and not even allies or neutrals will be spared at times because the consequence is really a joke. At the same time consequences for the victim are almost ridiculously harsh - credit loss to GR back to life, huge SI time sink, item lost in belt drop, implants popped, wearing on them and requiring pokes.
What I would wish for is easing of the death penalties when killed by allied or neutral runner. No credit loss for GR back to life, no belt drop, no implants popped if killed by allied or neutral. These things should only happen when killed by hostile runner. Perhaps even fine runners killing allies or neutrals in credits?
In addition, I would like to have a faction not hostile to any of the others, perhaps Diamond Real Estate. I think that without being unfaithful to the Neocron lore, DRE could be profit seeking real estate brokers who does not care who they deal with, as long as they make profits. Or, perhaps even better, the possibility to actually be factionless and neutral to everyone.
As for the LE chip, starter chars could still have one. But the City Administration does not want their LE chipped runners to become too intelligent nor skilled fighters. It could have no malus/penalty until */30 or whatever appropriate rank, but kick in a 100% xp penalty after that. And it would be cool if the Jones questline eventually lead to the runner finding out about the LE chip and given a "Matrix-style" choice to remove it or leave it in, facing the malus and consequences.
In my opinion, all of this could be a cool compromise and would turn the LE chip into a starter help and part of the storyline instead of half the population still keeping it at high levels.