[R#199] T#199-T#200 - Patch Notes

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Originally Posted by Snake EYE

However, with the current state of weapons and the run speed soft cap, I fear forcing spies and PEs to choose between high TL weapons with gimped damage output and defense, or lower TL weapons (the majority of which do abysmal damage (Libby, RoG) or rarely deal damage to moving targets (RoG, RoLH, healing light) ), it will make the PVP feel even slower and spies much weaker.

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We can independently alter many factors such as runspeed, PvP dmg and individual weapons.
Also, Z discovered a netcode issue that we tested recently with excellent results, but it needs some refinement. This should mean beam weapons are back on the menu.
I will be looking at weapons again in the next few days.

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Also, from what I've seen of APU PAs and implants (although I haven't tried any Monk setups yet so I could be entirely wrong), it seems that with this system an APU can use all their spells with just the +psi from their underwear/PA, or with a single brain implant, leaving them unaffected by the choice of high/low TL, resulting in them probably being a bit too powerful, especially if the spy and PE's damage output and/or resists are lower.

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That's part of a general issue with monks overall in that their primary items for both PPU and APU don't reach as high as those of the other classes. Although somewhat delayed as focus has moved, there are plans to bring in higher TL spells.

i think the classes are also quite balances at this time (with tanks needing a slight boost perhaps) and changing to much of the implants and as the implants look on the test server a lot of them will be worthless. While im not against changing the implants (+2,3453 dex was a stupid idea to begin with :D ) i do think changing them to much or making it to difficult to reach higher level dex will make classes who rely on bonusses (spy and Pe mostly) worse off. If all weapons actually functioned (see snakes post above) it would not be to bad.
Finally PVP MUST be fast and furious :D fast pvp where you can move and dodge and actually be hard to aim and have a hard time aiming is part of why neocron is to fun. All the malus to agility and athletics is not a good idea , it forces everyone to use certain underwear and Pa without the malus.

Maybe a slight + of main starts to most implants will make them all worthwhile and will let classes reach higher TL weapons. (maybe +2-3 dex max on MC5s and the rest of the implants accordingly)

Also Bragi be carefull with the monk balancing. It seems to be at this time the monks are balanced Apus do good damage but are fragile as before and ppus are great as always. If we make apus even better or to hard to kill while making the other classes have less damage or less resist depending on their setup there is a chance we might get monkocron back and no one wants that.

The actual availability of main-skill bonuses has increased (PEs can reach the dizzy if you try hard enough), but now there is more of a tradeoff between main-skill and sub-skill.

Check out this thread for some more in-depth explanation for what's going on.

Don't worry too much if your new setup has less total bonuses than before (which it most probably will have). Overall and individual factors can be adjusted so that the game plays as it did.
What is really important is how the new implants work with each other rather than compared with what's on retail.

Thanks for the replies Bragi.

So it's not just a case of rolling out the imp changes and that's that, there can be some fine tuning of other stuff too.

Sweet.

In that case then, after fiddling around with monk and tank setups last night I think the new changes definitely do add a lot more variation to the setups than current retail.

If the lower TL weapons get some fine tuning and the beam weapons are back on the menu, it could be very interesting!

Also, I think the difference between tier 3 / rare / mc5 is spot on. It's nice that people can have competitive PVP setups without them and only gain a little bonus with them.

A little question about that: since mc5s are now split between main skill and sub skill (eg. Dip now giving +5 dex +15 hack or what ever it is, and CCP give ing +20 pc, +20 RC, +10 Wep, +10tc), it may mean the one we currently use could be useless in our new setups. Will we get the chance to swap them or will everyone have to go farm different ones?

Bragi,

Will any effort be made to adjust rifles to accommodate the fact that the only desirable ones (except SH) for a spy to use are tl113 and above given the fact that this will essentially call for a player to gimp?

Also-- any ETA on the armor changes? Will the armor changes come with a new armor resist curve? Looking forward to new stuff to learn.

Technical Updates & Bug Fixes

• Netcode - Movement, switching weapons, any actions should now run much smoother than before

Gameplay Updates

• Weapons are "recalculated" - Please test the damage output
• NPC Healths are "recalculated" - Don't fear the evil Rat anymore! ;)
• LE changed to the NC1 Version - -33% XP and -33% Money starting from BR 1

Please do me a favor and please test things like "movement" and "clipping" in pvp, also test beam weapons.
Things that need to be tested too: All damages, resistances and armor should be equal on all classes - so please test the dmg output with the same weapons and same skills on different classes.

UPDATE: Weapons are still not doing damage as aspected - You can't recalculate 822 weapons at once (mainly because of their individiual behavior) we need to adjust them by hand and weapon by weapon.

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Originally Posted by Divide

Will any effort be made to adjust rifles to accommodate the fact that the only desirable ones (except SH) for a spy to use are tl113 and above given the fact that this will essentially call for a player to gimp?

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Yes.

I'm going to be running through all weapons tonight hopefully. I want to see TSU PEs, RoG Spies, etc.

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Also-- any ETA on the armor changes? Will the armor changes come with a new armor resist curve? Looking forward to new stuff to learn.

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Resist curve no (afaik), different values, yes.

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Originally Posted by Bragi

Yes.

I'm going to be running through all weapons tonight hopefully. I want to see TSU PEs, RoG Spies, etc.


Resist curve no (afaik), different values, yes.

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Will there be a TL review of existing items? Will the FL and Dissy be 114/115 forever?


Back to armor - ETA? Is it actually going back to a single overall balance or is it staying segmented? Are all forms of armor going to be available to all classes? Is there any way we could request that the curve be reviewed or revamped?

Well after playing around with setups I have to say it looks good. Tanks got a slight buff and even if classes get a bit less over all combat skills it looks very good. I'm excited :) I really hope the lower til weapons get fixed / buffed miss my old pain easer / ROG pe ;)

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Originally Posted by Divide

Will there be a TL review of existing items? Will the FL and Dissy be 114/115 forever?

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If you want I can put up a general discussion about weapon reqs.

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Originally Posted by Divide

Back to armor - ETA?

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*Glares*

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Is it actually going back to a single overall balance or is it staying segmented? Are all forms of armor going to be available to all classes? Is there any way we could request that the curve be reviewed or revamped?

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Not all armour will be available to everyone in what is being worked on at the moment. It will be much more considered though, taking in to account who can use it.
Requirements are also going to be a key part of the rework.

Also.... Duranit!

Technical Updates & Bug Fixes

• NPC changes from softpatches are now hardpatched
• A fix is applied which limits the FPS in fullscreen to 60/62 - Please make sure your driver is NOT overriding any settings such like VSYNC
• The "--" bug on Implant / Armor values are fixed

Gameplay Updates

• Several Implant / Armor changes were made - Bragi will go more in detail about this
• Weapon damage increased

Very minor ones actually. One of the suit line's PSI bonus was double what it should be and the inventory text for an imp was wrong. Early days for more general fixing.

Also, regarding the weapon fix, it's a bit rough; I did some testing on the TL75+ weapons and found that while the rares were all over the place, the epics and non-rares seemed to be consistent. As such I matched the others too them.
Quick testing shows that dmg is now probably too high (the TL81 Plasma Wave was doing almost double that of the Ravager, so now the Ravager is 'insane'). While it's scaling nicely, fights may be a 'little' fast paced.

I'll send a overall scaling tweak in the morning, until then, have some crazy time (and compare all weapons down to TL75 with setups to match).

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Originally Posted by Bragi

If you want I can put up a general discussion about weapon reqs.

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That might be cool.

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*Glares*

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Next patch to hit retail after this one? Two more retail patches? Don't need to know the number of hours-- just the order, I guess.

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Not all armour will be available to everyone in what is being worked on at the moment. It will be much more considered though, taking in to account who can use it.
Requirements are also going to be a key part of the rework.

Also.... Duranit!

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I guess I should look over that thread again, I seem to recall a different community voice from this inquiry.


Excited for Duranit if it comes to spies. If not, another meh.

This is slightly off topic but I don't know where else to ask.
(tried in game but no one answers on test or retail)

How do I use the reverse loms ?

I went to neoconstruct and bought them but they do not give me any skill gain.

Do I have to level skills before they work, or something ?

Thanks for any and all help.

Edit to add: how do we implant and mod ??
Doesn't seem to be anyone online to do any of that. :(

Tested the beam weapons Ray of god , rav and healing light yesterday and they are working great , damage is good but not too good. Overall damage of the rifles at least seems a bit to high same with CS. But overall I'm liking the new implants and armor. Also apu spells are doing very low damage at the moment , something I'm sure will be fixed.

A few of us tested the rare beam weapons last night. They're hitting every time now. Awesome :)

Movement seems pretty smooth. The only 'bad' thing we noticed was someone dropping through the floor and popping up a few times in a duel. Everybody except the person falling through the floor would see it. I think that happens when you're on a hill. I know it's not a new issue but I guess it's related to netcode so I thought I'd mention it.

Also, people randomly seem to stand still for me for a second, then warp a few meters ahead. During this time, I stand stand still for others, then warp ahead slightly. I don't know if anyone else experiences this too? It's probably just because I have a relatively high ping (200+) but I also thought I'd mention it.

Didn't try any clipping though, we were out in the open.

Nice patch!

Technical Updates & Bug Fixes

• More Netcode improvements to stabilize the movement - It should now run more smoothly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQngDV6_5Ew

Let's try to get an answer, again !!!


This is slightly off topic but I don't know where else to ask.
(tried in game but no one answers on test or retail)

How do I use the reverse loms ?

I went to neoconstruct and bought them but they do not give me any skill gain.

Do I have to level skills before they work, or something ?

Thanks for any and all help.

Edit to add: how do we implant and mod ??
Doesn't seem to be anyone online to do any of that.

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Originally Posted by DomeOfTerror

Let's try to get an answer, again !!!


This is slightly off topic but I don't know where else to ask.
(tried in game but no one answers on test or retail)

How do I use the reverse loms ?

I went to neoconstruct and bought them but they do not give me any skill gain.

Do I have to level skills before they work, or something ?

Thanks for any and all help.

Edit to add: how do we implant and mod ??
Doesn't seem to be anyone online to do any of that.

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Uh, instead of the reverse LOMs they kinda introduced the Super Hard Mission guy in the Ceres Temple.

Pokes and mods are a problem, you kinda have not much choice other than to dual log do some self-serving.

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Originally Posted by Drachenpaladin

Uh, instead of the reverse LOMs they kinda introduced the Super Hard Mission guy in the Ceres Temple.

Pokes and mods are a problem, you kinda have not much choice other than to dual log do some self-serving.

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Thank you for responding.

I'm a bit confused, the reverse LOMs don't work ?

I'll try going to the temple and see what happens.

Thanks again.

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Originally Posted by DomeOfTerror

Thank you for responding.

I'm a bit confused, the reverse LOMs don't work ?

I'll try going to the temple and see what happens.

Thanks again.

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Yes, i think they got deactivated or something. There is an altar somewhere in the Neoconstruct that ports you to the temple btw.

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Originally Posted by Drachenpaladin

Yes, i think they got deactivated or something. There is an altar somewhere in the Neoconstruct that ports you to the temple btw.

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Thank you again.

With your assistance I have it all working smoothly.

Much appreciation.

Btw, you may or may not get lucky by asking for a poke in the NC IRC channel. I just checked, my poker is still available.

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Originally Posted by Divide

I guess I should look over that thread again, I seem to recall a different community voice from this inquiry.

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Wait, do you mean armour types or armour pieces?

Former yes (ish), latter no.

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Originally Posted by solling

Also apu spells are doing very low damage at the moment , something I'm sure will be fixed.

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Error on my part. We're dealing with a bit of a mess regarding weapons at the moment, but it's on my list for the next set of weapon changes I make (along with melee).

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Originally Posted by Snake EYE

A few of us tested the rare beam weapons last night. They're hitting every time now. Awesome :)

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:D.

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Movement seems pretty smooth. The only 'bad' thing we noticed was someone dropping through the floor and popping up a few times in a duel. Everybody except the person falling through the floor would see it. I think that happens when you're on a hill. I know it's not a new issue but I guess it's related to netcode so I thought I'd mention it.

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NC's 'up' axis is iffy to put it mildly. Aside from gliders and drones, players don't truly use it in the same sense as in other games. Z is looking at improving it.

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It's probably just because I have a relatively high ping (200+) but I also thought I'd mention it.

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With that kind of latency, there is going to be packet loss issues. Distance and number of servers the data has to travel through will always be higher than people closer to the server.
Is it consistent? Does it happen all the time, at a regular interval and/or does it increase/decrease with ping?

Technical Updates & Bug Fixes

• Code refactorings. Code refactorings. Code refactorings

Gameplay Updates

• The Damage and DoT system got reworked recently - A lot of hardcoded things were removed. Damage, DoTs and DoT Types are now on the fly configurable via "soft patches"

NOTE: All weapon damage, DoT effects and heals are now changed -significantly- from their previous values due to bugfixes to some underlying issues. Over the next few weeks these will be rebalanced.

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Originally Posted by Bragi

NC's 'up' axis is iffy to put it mildly. Aside from gliders and drones, players don't truly use it in the same sense as in other games. Z is looking at improving it.

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Awesome :)

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Originally Posted by Bragi

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Is it consistent? Does it happen all the time, at a regular interval and/or does it increase/decrease with ping?

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I can't say I've ever noticed a pattern to it. It can happen once every few minutes or not happen at all. It can happen in a 1v1 duel but not happen in a 15 person OPwar. I have noticed the occasional packet loss when pinging a few servers over the months, so I guess it's just that.

Thanks for the replies!

On the note of rebalancing weapons, i would like to suggest to revise the re-working (or rendering useless) of AoE-weapons that happened a while ago. Ever since that patch came out AoE weapons have nearly disappeared - and I myself also noticed that the Holy barrel of my APU dealt only 10-20 damage per tick, which is plain ridiculous.

none rare? should be at least 30 and the rare one is 200...

Nope. The first number was definitely a 2 - which is why I am making this proposal. I don't want area-weapons to be overpowered either, but they should at least remain usable. Right now I don't remember anyone who was using an area-weapon lately. This is also matched by what i have been selling: Single target weapons - plenty of em. But no area weapons whatsoever. In a nutshell we are currently having several dozens of useless items among the weapons. I mean, back before the patch area weapons like raygun cannons, missile and grenade launchers used to be somewhat of a pain to aim because the shots rarely landed where you aimed. This inaccuracy - as far as i am concerned - was a decent disadvantage to compensate for the damage they dealt.
With the re-working of implants and armor now underway i see no reason why the damage should remain on par with a TL30 pistol. If we get some proper resist-armor we could give area weapons a purpose once again without needing to worry about opfights any more.
I had originally intended to equip my tank with a Moon striker or Doom Beamer, but as things are right now i dropped the idea because both are plain useless. If the gimped holy barrel is any indication they would deal like 50 or so damage. In that case it would be more effective to keep my trusty old TL84 plasma gun which deals around 80 damage per hit. I'd be a lot quicker killing the mobs one by one compared to a weapon that was once supposed to quite literally nuke the enemy out of existence.