As someone who didnt see the need to use Drugs back in NC1 i say go back to that...
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As someone who didnt see the need to use Drugs back in NC1 i say go back to that...
Having to drug for certain situations, like equipping an armor that then provides enough
stats to stay equipped, is fine.
But I don't like the idea of having to drug in order to be competitive and if it is a
requirement to be competitive then the penalties for using those necessary drugs are too
high.
If drugs remain necessary make it so you can stay drugged for much longer and suffer the
flash after you've had time for a full Op fight or two.
Drugs are fine!
I consider my self as a drug user since the very beginning.
Drugs are one of the coolest things in Neocron ever.
If you didnt get this by now, you probably never have seen yellow pa tanks and purple pa ppus fighting...
I can remember when i was leveling as a noob back in NC1, that i was using drugs to use higher tl weapons to boost the cr etc.
Drugs are not gamebreaking. Sure they give you a light benefit for pvp but.. they cost alot if you consider to use them constantly.
Ofc this is depending on how often you fight.
However, what i consider to be most important is that drugs giving more dynamics to the game itself. You can build extreme setups depending on drugs.
Just to give you and brief idea why drugs are awesome:
There was a time in NC1 - beginning NC2 where nearly no spies attended to OP-fights.
At this time not many people considered to use drugs for their normal fighting setups.
I did. I had so much fun doing opfights as a spy where everyone said: "A spy? Not useful.. etc."
Even my own Teammates where sceptical...
However, i am an supporter of variety and drugs are important for exotic builds and variety.
For people that are complaining: that they have to use drugs in fights, because if they dont, they have an disadvantage..
thats not the full story!
You dont win fights because you use drugs... or lose because you didnt.
All people who talk this nonesense, 13 years and you still dont "know how" to OP-fight? :angel:
There are many fights where i dont use drugs, because i dont need them.
In my opinion it would be great to keep drugs ingame.
On the other side i can see that it might be a good step into competative gameplay (balancing everyone/everything). Making everyone even.. thats not Neocron...
I dont want a mirror match. I dont want people to have a similar setup.
Personally I don't like drug-setups but pills like Paratemol X-Forte give you the feeling that you have a disadvantage if you don't use them. I don't care if PEs take pills to use a certain weapon though.
In my opinion pvp-stats like ATL, AGI, WPL and HLT should be "implant-only".
This! Graves + Swamp Caves are a nice spot for this. I like grinding but rare parts is too boring and I don't really need them.
Please ! NO !
Donīt mix PVP and PVE.... I donīt want to farm stuff for PVP... especially not in Neocron..
I just want to log in and have fun pvping. I still have to farm credits for the drugs...
And this is far more than you expect.
The whole Clan Infected spent over 50 millions on drugs, medpacks and stamina boosters so far.
Just to give you an idea that there is something you have to do...
Make ATL, AGL, WPL and HLT implant only ?
Hell no! There are moments when i need to boost this kind of attributes...
And if those stats are implants only the character setup will suffer from it.
Those are the strongest pvp attributes and ofc everyone will max them... That means everyone will take the same implants... max atl,agl,wpl,htl...
I dont want to change implants during a fight because i cant follow up a pistol-spy using a devorer.
No i simply want the option to take drugs and take off my pa...
What will be the next step? Remove buffs because it is unfair in terms of pvp that ppl use alt ppus to buff their main char?
OK, so do you guys want a system where you don't need drugs, or one where you do?
I highly prefer a system with drugs, it extends the possibilities of different setups. Even now you don't have to use them to be competitive, although if you wanna maximize your character/output you'll take them. It brings another aspect to the game and the required micro-management seperates good players from....not so good ones.
I dont see the negative aspects of drugs beside the fact that some people are just too lazy to manage them in fights.
Key here is in the word "need" - temporal, expensive, downtime inducing items. In answer to the above binary question - no. Temporal and downtime inducing items aren't fun. Fuck reality, etc! :p
As i mentioned above, there is no need to take them. It's up to you if you do or don't. In OP-fights you are perfectly fine to play without, it's just an extra boost or you take them to maximize a setup to it's full potential.
My exprience so far is that there are people who wanna maximize things and people who don't like the extra stress in fights. They dont like the fact to use their weapons on buffs/drugs only and therefore they dont play with them. Not to mention infight drug-rezzes or extra drugs to delay the flash. But if you really feel a disadvantage over the guys who use drugs, it's totally up to you to change your style of playing. Crying for fixes/nerfs etc. is weak and the easiest way possible to avoid having to cope with things you dont like/feel wrong.
Generally spoken, drugs are a proven thing in NC, both views have their right to exist and it's not a problem to play either style.
And one more thing looking a bit further into the future of NC: When freezes are a thing again, you'll have to take anti-freeze-drugs from time to time (hopefully not the same amount like back in the days:eek:), so it will get a lot harder for drug addicts to consistently play on a max-drugged setup (anti-freeze-drugs-drugflash-inc)!
I'd say go back to the old NC1 system. I use drugs just now and I don't mind them at all. As others have said, they're fairly easy to manage. I just think it was much better in NC1 when you didn't _need_ them. Yes, you can play without them, but if you put two fairly equally skilled players up against each other now - one with drugs and one without - the one that's drugging will certainly win. That's too much of an advantage in my eyes.
Plus it gives people another reason to run their 5 alts on 5 different accounts to the OP they're about to attack: so when they get drug flash they just hop onto another toon.
Uhm, theoretical question:
If you put a drugless setup against a drug-user setup, with equal skilled players - wouldn't the drugless setup gain a further edge over the drugster when using drugs for himself anyway? Simply from the skill-overkill, e.g. the abundance of performance enhancing factors applied to the already working setup?
Are there any ceilings like diminishing returns or anything working on those levels?
Not sure if thats what you mean, but by making your satup with drugs (and PPU buffs) in mind you can optimize far better for stuff like opfights. The character will be a lot better in opfights than one that can work without drugs.
My opinion: Due to the above explanation a drugsetup is also more fun in opfights, so I wouldn't want them to be irrelevant there, but there has do be a downside. Maybe some visible mark that tells you how long it takes for someones drugs to run out could work. This would give you strategic options/advantages when fighting against drug users.
There are antibuffs which remove buffs. Why can't there be antibodies which remove drugs? Could make a nanite build useful outside of solo play (which itself has been broken for quite some time now).
All good points raised on all sides.
Drugs are a good cash sink also though, they should have a place in the world of Neocron but they should not be NEEDED. They should be simple, easy to use and part of the life as cyberpunk without drugs in some form or another is just not cyberpunk enough. There will always be dropouts, down and outs, hobos, bums whatever you want to call them but they have a place in this society. The Black Dragon clan exists to serve this aspect of society and from a "lore/rp/theme" setting there is a need for them.
However they should give a minimal edge and be an option to give extra edge to a player but not be a crutch to be used in combat.
If anything I would like to see their effects lessened and their use prolonged. They should/could perhaps be given to players levelling up and enjoying the game rather than the be all and end all of pvp as was 2.2.
as we are talking about cyberpunk and drugs here i would like to add another idea, although i am not sure if it can be put in the game with the current mechanics: Addiction. Right now we do get a drugflash from using drugs. but we all know that there is also a much more dire effect to drugs - called addiction. My idea would be this: If a drug with good bonuses (and I am thinking of BD FSM stuff here) is used, you risk getting addicted. The effect would be a permanent light drugflash which is only cured if another dose of the same drug is used (so no drugrezz). Once that runs out the perma-flash returns.
This way people would have to think twice if they want the hefty bonus or not. the less severe drugs would keep the current effect though. This is meant for the good stuff ^^
What do you guys think?
Sounds cool, but the perma-flash can only last a couple days real time
if no drugs are used because the addiction would then be gone.
I think the ability to continue using the drugs with no flash but a semi
permanent flash (couple days, as above) if you stop using is a good idea.
Continuous drug use could cause implant damage, like the physical damage
real drugs cause and, or, a temporary health reduction to go with the
perma-flash.
Agreed - however, the counter shouldn't continue while the character is logged out. After all the idea is to make the player think about the adverse effects of drugs. So the character would have to spend quite a while in Neocron to get clean again.
Good idea. perhaps a passive Body Health debuffQuote:
I think the ability to continue using the drugs with no flash but a semi
permanent flash (couple days, as above) if you stop using is a good idea.
Continuous drug use could cause implant damage, like the physical damage
real drugs cause and, or, a temporary health reduction to go with the
perma-flash.
Drug flash should go the way of parashock in my eyes. Anything involving loss of control of character in an fps is alien to me.
Having nerfed stats I can cope with, loss of movement control is just horse shit.
Before any changes hit the test- or retailserver the freeze weapons and spells have to work as intended. As Zoltan mentioned in one of his posts, they have plans to revive them. I don't know how many of you played back in the days when the Parashock-Halo was as strong as the Holy-Para, but simply had nearly no mana cost and casting time. As a Tank for example you had to eat anti-freeze-drugs like mad. Over this quite long period, you became drugflashes just by using the anti-freeze-drugs. You simply couldn't afford to use any other drugs in order to stay relevant long enough in fights.
Now Zoltan also mentioned that it won't be as horrible as back in the days, but if there is the need of using anti-freeze-drugs again, the whole drug thing will change automatically again without no need of introducing a whole new mechanic at all. Simply because you can't start with e.g.: 4 drugs at all. When the anti-freeze-flash hits you, you'll have to throw in even more "normal" drugs to delay the flash again, and your enemy, if still alive, won't stop casting freezes on you, so you'll also have to keep using anti-freeze-drugs. It's kind of a loop you're stuck in.
I hope you all get what i'm trying to tell you. Just let us all wait for the exact new freeze-mechanism and then, after we know what's the deal and some testing let's see if any changes to drugs are still needed. Since both drugs and freezes are strongly linked that would be the best way to encounter the whole thing without the chance of creating new problems by implementing new things.
The other way to think of all this is of course if you simply don't want drugs in the game, no matter what. But to be fair you should be able list some good arguments why you don't want them. Because (in my opinion) the fact that others use them and you don't want to is simply you not willing to adapt to the situation. Drugs are not broken and crying for fixes/nerfs is always easier then adapting to it.
WTF ??! Neocron will no longer be Cyberpunk ???! Are you kidding ?! Some folks want Drugs to be Removed ???! Hey guys you won't ask for Elves too no ?! Neocron is Cyberpunk, Neocron is Post-Apo, Neocron needs drugs !!!
If you remove drugs, why not remove Pepper park whores, mutants, etc ...
Don't remove drugs, add some kind of drugs, remove useless ones, add more variety !! Like I always say, Neocron doesn't need content to be removed, only content to be added !!
Kalonji Faya
I've never once used drugs irl.
I don't want to be forced to use them in a video game to be viable.
/thread
Post Apocalyptic world, cyberpunk.
Brain and body implants, drugs, strip clubs, dead hookers in the subway...
Hookers in Dome used to offer their "services".
This is a pain-filled future world where life is hard...
Please don't make ridiculous comparisons to real life.
Yeah, ok. So then there shouldn't be in this hard filled world:
-An implant that prevents other people from attacking you
-Areas where you can't draw your weapon and kill other players
-A way to keep your items on you even after death
See? I can play this game too. I guarantee you nobody in game other than myself would advocate for unrestricted, full loot PvP, but that doesn't mean I'm going to cry about it.
I'm not saying they shouldn't be in game; I'm saying I shouldn't be forced to use drugs to be viable.
The LE argument is moot, it's there so people with different playstyles can enjoy NC too.
Anyone that is of a mind to PVP can remove the LE, and anyone that wants LE removed
for all players just wants to gank people that are weaker than them.
If you need kill stats Planetside is that way --------->
So can we just drop the LE crap and get back to drugs and possible changes to make them
better ?
Also i'd argue that a mind control chip to steer the aggressions of citizens is PERFECTLY in line with a cyberpunk, post-apoc dystopia.
It may be unprofessional, but...
+1 previous two posts.