[R#191] T#192 / 193 / 194 / 195 - Patch Discussion

Good point Divide, ther is no reason why players should have to modify files or moves things around to be able to launch either testserver or normal client. It would be a lot less hassle for everyone involved if the agme was actually able to launch all by itself, a radical idea I know, but still.

As for Zoltan writing what changes he has made, of course he should. He should notify us of the changes made, and then the players test them out. That would be the normal way of doing tests. Do you imagine that when they make modifications to say a car and hand it to testdrivers they do not tell them the changes made to the car and how they want the car tested? It would be a waste of time for players to have to search for changes, time that could be used for testing.

I would suggest the team (and Slith) take a more open attitude to the players who want to do tests, and have shown their willingness.

So stop making people search for the changes. Just post them , tell us specifically what you want tested and then accept the feedback you get. I assure you that this would make for a significantly better testing environment for all.

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Originally Posted by Tino

Here is a slow motion video clip of Falk Keegan using a jump hack on his pe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HItp...ature=youtu.be

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haha falk is jumpman23?

Nike are thinking of getting Falk onboard and making a new trainer called Air Falks!

Makes you jump 3 times as high :P

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Originally Posted by Tino

Here is a slow motion video clip of Falk Keegan using a jump hack on his pe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HItp...ature=youtu.be

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Wow.... that is just crazy. I hear Nike are dumping Michael Jordan and are now going over to making Air Falks instead.

The advert would be awesome!!!

AIR FALKS, THE FLIGHT OF TOMORROW.. TODAY!

With Air Falks you can gain extra air while jumping, only $99.99 get your new pair of Air Falks today at a discounted price.

GO ON TRY THEM OUT NOW!

Disclaimer: Nike and Air Falks cannot accept any responsiblity of injury or damage to yourself, property or anyone else around you! (Fast Spoken)

All i ask is for people to play fair...why do you need the advantage? does it make the game more enjoyable to you?

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Originally Posted by Tino

All i ask is for people to play fair...why do you need the advantage? does it make the game more enjoyable to you?

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I think people do it because they dont have the skill to follow up fighting people in game and they hide that they are super trash :P

It seems that Zoltan's examining an iterative process to balance, trying new things quickly, and on the fly changes in a test environment, and I don't see how that can be bad. Maybe there's a PR gaffe here, but this thread appears to be getting pretty silly - especially when this seems like a massive goal of NC's for a long time.

Watching the video a few times, it looks like one of the Psi Monks, has a pair of Air Falks as well. Right about the 4-5 second mark. Watch it a few times.

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Originally Posted by StevenJ

It seems that Zoltan's examining an iterative process to balance, trying new things quickly, and on the fly changes in a test environment, and I don't see how that can be bad. Maybe there's a PR gaffe here, but this thread appears to be getting pretty silly - especially when this seems like a massive goal of NC's for a long time.

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Golly Gee Wilickers! Deliberateness and rationality! Here, at this place!

Gotta dispense with the late-night snacks I guess... I start seeing things... :eek:

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Originally Posted by necrocon

Watching the video a few times, it looks like one of the Psi Monks, has a pair of Air Falks as well. Right about the 4-5 second mark. Watch it a few times.

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That ppu was already standing on the second level when he jumped...that is what a normal jump looks like...watch falk jump from the bottom level almost to the ceiling lol that is not normal...

Here is a link in super slow motion so you can see that ppu was standing on the 2nd level before he jumped: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEmM...ature=youtu.be

The First Love is 4 shots again. All is right with the world.

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Originally Posted by Divide

The First Love is 4 shots again. All is right with the world.

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It's not bloody burst dmg insane like the dissie is it?! If not - awesome.

As well as the Slasher being a rapid fire pistol.

I'll be on the test server again asap, but... this sounds good.

well ill be john brown!!! look at what i came home too.
@ drachenpaladin, there were 2 files that the installer didnt install. zoltan wants everyone to believe that their system works when it really doesnt for a LOT of people. he seems to not understand that i spent 2 whole days trying to get on the test server using his methods and they didnt work, and all he has to say is read the first page. yea....go fuck a duck tbh. any who the 2 files that we all had to download and install were msvcr120.dll and msvcp120.dll. we found out what to download by trying to launch the client outright and getting the error message msvcr120.dll is missing. then once we installed that it was missing the other file. of course we already posted this on the "how to get on vedeena" thread :D

Please add stacking damage to Wyatt Earp please. Like it was in NC1, that would be glorious.

I guess we've given up on fixing beam weapons and have started converting them all to bursts instead now.

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Originally Posted by gstyle40

any who the 2 files that we all had to download and install were msvcr120.dll and msvcp120.dll. we found out what to download by trying to launch the client outright and getting the error message msvcr120.dll is missing.

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msvcr120.dll and msvcp120.dll are part of the Microsoft Visual C++ 2013 Redistributable Package.

Of course it's Neocron's fault that the respective Microsoft installer did not install these files correctly on your computers .... :D

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Originally Posted by Tino

Here is a slow motion video clip of Falk Keegan using a jump hack on his pe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HItp...ature=youtu.be

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HAHA... I died laughing here :)

There is no such thing like desync in Neocron which could explain what happened there? Tino you are just absolutely ridiculous. I have seen players flying in the air, warping through walls, coming trough ceilings in my appartment and stuff like that. Neocron is based on old tech which is based on much older tech going back to a time where 56k Modems were a thing. Get over it.

A "Jump" Hack ... you got to be kidding me.

Falk is not a bad PvPer. That's all. Learn to lose.

Please don't accuse others of cheating. Nine times out of ten it's just a glitch. Thanks.

A note on the missing msvcr120.dll and msvcp120.dll files. Those files are part of Visual C++ Redistributable Packages for Visual Studio 2013 Make sure you install the vcredist_x86.exe regardless whether you run 64 or 32 bit versions of windows.

I have updated the Neocron installer to install the new C++ runtime, but it's currently being QA'ed internally at this time.

To make sure that I'm not missing any related issues, for the people who had issues with missing files can you confirm your OS version including whether it's 32bit or 64bit.

Okay, thats way to much.

1) You guys did a clearly violation against our Rules Of Conduct

2) You guys are seriuosly talking about "Jump" hacks in a game with a poorly implementation of the Y-Axis interpolation... short: Neocron really gives a s**** on it

3) You guys didn't get manage to install a very simple Redist which was mentioned several times now ... but its okay for you to download DLL files from a doubious online storage.

A short question about that: Are you serious?

It's okay for me to have a opinion about the changes, feedback is always very welcome but you guys did NOTHING of them just blame a person who was apart from Dasore, Torrez and Polyverse the MOST ACTIVE users on the test server.

Think about it and PLEASE leave this thread for the original intention - gave feedback about the changes on Vedeena.

PS: I promise you to move you directly to /DEV/NULL if I need to read such rasistic phrases like "They don't want your feedback because you are not german" again.


@ Divide

Dropping single DLL files into the Neocron directory is definitely the wrong way... these files are NOT registered in you Windows installation so Windows Update won't find them if an update is needed.

[edited]

[Edited]

The Libra sounds like that the last shot of the first burst got skipped by the first shot of the second burst (so two sounds quite synchronous). How to add a little break like 0.05-0.1 seconds?

Changing the burst of the First Love from 2 shots to 4 shots is a good idea to make the stamina consumption more realistic and the weapon more efficient in fights. Good change :)

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Originally Posted by Zoltan

@ Divide

Dropping single DLL files into the Neocron directory is definitely the wrong way... these files are NOT registered in you Windows installation so Windows Update won't find them if an update is needed.

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You are right, it is anything but proper from an actual package management perspective. From a delivery/usage standpoint, it is without question your best way to distribute those files. Do you really want to be forced to comment on a thread such as this one and have to gnash your teeth instead of calling people lazy idiots, like any IT person would really want to? No, you have better things to do and I support that-- telling people to RTFM only works if they are inclined to take direction. I actually told someone directly on teamspeak, after this thread was well on its way, to go to the thread and download the VC redist-- they resisted it like 4 times. And then they failed to get on the test server. What was it worth, me telling them to do that? What was it worth, you writing the instructions? It probably took more time to write the instructions than if you were to include those dll's in the patch.. I understand your purpose, in the business world if you don't get explicit in text you can't expect any results. I know you know how work is done, your notes and releases prove it. They work for me, and others who consume data like that. They don't work for others, the tldr crew can't be changed-- but they can be included and their input can be valuable.

As for updates/etc. Considering they wouldn't be touched by Windows update, or anything other than the patcher, they would ALWAYS be the right release for the game. Future management of those files would of course be delivered by the patcher, eliminating the need to use Windows Update and ensuring the compatibility, and error-correction via nc file checker if something were to happen to the file.

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Originally Posted by Divide

As for updates/etc. Considering they wouldn't be touched by Windows update, or anything other than the patcher, they would ALWAYS be the right release for the game. Future management of those files would of course be delivered by the patcher, eliminating the need to use Windows Update and ensuring the compatibility, and error-correction via nc file checker if something were to happen to the file.

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This is against Microsoft's Recommended Practice. It's very rare that Microsoft would do an update to a C++ runtime library that breaks compatibility and if they did, there would be a lot of people up in arms about it. What if there was a security update in one of the dll's? Windows update would update the dll's in system32, but it would not update the dll's in your games folder that your downloaded, leaving yourself potentially open to attack by hackers.

Due to the age/limitations of the Neocron patcher it's difficult to redistribute and run VCRedist_x86.exe. It's an issue I'm aware of, and has been partially addressed by the Neocron Installer but there will be issues when it comes to installing the C++ libs when this test patch goes to retail.

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Originally Posted by Bifrost

We're going to do it the impractical, frustrating, non-user-centric way because some technical writer at Microsoft slapped some text on a page and told us...
P.S. viruses and hackers.

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Wait for it...

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Originally Posted by Bifrost's Link

If you want to achieve isolation, you can either link statically, or copy the specific Visual C/C++ DLLs to the application local folder along with their other binaries. An application local folder is a folder that contains an executable application file. DLLs must be deployed to the application local folder.

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It is a perfectly legitimate way to distribute, and again-- without question: Neocron's best way to serve its users and volunteer staff.

It would have completely defeated the need for this conversation, the waste of time people took to write instructions and link binaries, the time wasted and severe frustration by community members who honestly want to help.

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Recommended Strategies

Use the following strategies when redistributing the C/C++ run time components with your drivers and applications.
For applications installed under Program Files:
Use the Visual C++ Redistributable Package (VCRedist_x86.exe, VCRedist_x64.exe, VCRedist_arm.exe), which deploys the CRT under System32. In this case, the redistributable package can be updated automatically.
Alternatively, install the DLL(s) to the application local directory (copied directly to the directory where the application is installed), or link statically to the CRT. In this case, the CRT would need to be serviced manually.

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First thing: This is a testserver no retail, an updated installer is planned for the retail release.

Did you'd missed these (important) lines?

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Originally Posted by Bifrost

It's an issue I'm aware of, and has been partially addressed by the Neocron Installer but there will be issues when it comes to installing the C++ libs when this test patch goes to retail.

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So please calm down. Just for example: Steam or other deployment paltforms aren't deploying single VC++ DLLs too - they just installing MSI packages, why? Think about it.

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Originally Posted by Zoltan

PS: I promise you to move you directly to /DEV/NULL if I need to read such rasistic phrases like "They don't want your feedback because you are not german" again.

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We want to help Zoltan, we honestly seriously 100% want to help. We love the game, we love the NST even though at the same time we really want to curse you all out. We know you love the game and to some odd extent maybe us too... we just feel completely and totally out of control of something that we all love. It is gut-wrenching to love something unrequited.


When we get on the test server and we hear that special requests went from one person who lives in the same country as the lead dev and they did it. Like that day. Yet in previous iterations of testing, several attempts were made to call attention to severe issues there was no action. It feels like we're there for nothing. And it makes us desperate for attention.

We love Neocron. Won't Neocron love us back, like in public near the cool kid's table at lunch?

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Originally Posted by Zoltan

First thing: This is a testserver no retail, an updated installer is planned for the retail release.

Did you'd missed these (important) lines?

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I read them, but maybe interpreted them differently than you may have.

I read that Bifrost says it has partially been addressed, but there will be issues when retail comes. That sounds to me like the or a different problem related to this will exist in retail.

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So please calm down. Just for example: Steam or other deployment paltforms aren't deploying single VC++ DLLs too - they just installing MSI packages, why? Think about it.

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Only passionate because... well you read my previous post. The Neocron Launcher isn't Steam. Steam isn't a game, or a game's specialized launcher. Nor is Origin, or uPlay. they don't distribute anything but the game. If the game fails to properly package the VC redists, the game fails to launch. That game will probably sell for .25cents US in the first Steam Sale it can wiggle its way in to.
As for the MSI packages, I assumed that may was beyond the scope of the patcher. That would clearly be the best way to do it.