Make TH Sec 2 a Secure Zone

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by William Antrim

Because it doesnt do that. TH is the same as MB and TG canyon. The city is just that - the city with walls, guns and copbots. You already have reprogrammed copbots which TH never had originally. You also have turrets.


Like Doc said. Make a clan in TH and use it yourself and encourage your mates to come back there with your actions.

---

And like I've said, without a safezone, noone's going to walk a bunch of rare parts into there to get constructed.
TH is empy and will remain so all the time there's noone to use it. Tradeskills could bring more life into it.
And all the time people have attitudes like yours LEs will remain in since there's no point in trying to make a clan with it's own identity any more since regardless of faction, everyone sits in Plaza 1. Since there's no gain to removing LE other than the ability to clan, why would people bother?

Amusingly you two that both have an issue with this are both in the same CA clan, with the HQ in plaza 1. It's not really a surprise that you want to keep everything on your doorstep. There's no reason not to make TH2 a safezone since it's empty and noone uses it, so it won't impact you at all, and it's not like traders are currently hanging around in non-safezones and will suddenly have somewhere safe to go.

clan tag has nothing to do with it. We are actually related but we are both adults and can form our own cognitive opinions. We just happen to agree.


It is still a crap idea.

P1 has always been the place where everyone goes to. When a noob starts in nc they gr to their apartment (after mc5) and the hub of everything nc - the beating heart of the game - is just a few zones away that they can walk to in relative safety.


You want to move that so that it is 5 zones out of the city and a danger to get to at 0/2.

The noobs need to see capped players in their armour standing around chatting and trading. It gives them something to aspire to and stick with the game for.

No - that is why it is a bad idea.

The rest of the factions can go to their own hqs and tradeskill - FA should not be any different.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by William Antrim

clan tag has nothing to do with it. We are actually related but we are both adults and can form our own cognitive opinions. We just happen to agree.


It is still a crap idea.

P1 has always been the place where everyone goes to. When a noob starts in nc they gr to their apartment (after mc5) and the hub of everything nc - the beating heart of the game - is just a few zones away that they can walk to in relative safety.


You want to move that so that it is 5 zones out of the city and a danger to get to at 0/2.

The noobs need to see capped players in their armour standing around chatting and trading. It gives them something to aspire to and stick with the game for.

No - that is why it is a bad idea.

The rest of the factions can go to their own hqs and tradeskill - FA should not be any different.

---

Well no, that's not the way its always been. You live in NC as your HQ is in Plaza 1. I'm FA. My HQ is in TH. I want the same freedom to live and safely trade in my home as you enjoy. Just because they jammed new FA characters into possibly the worst apartment they could and chucked us into the outskirts of NC doesn't mean that's where everything should be done.

I'm not saying move anything anywhere. Plaza 1 should still remain a trade zone. I'm just saying so should FA. You don't have to use your HQ as a trade zone do you? You step out the door and you are in Plaza 1. I wonder if you would feel the same if your apartment got moved to the NC entrance and your HQ got dumped in the middle of the map.

Prior to the DoY deployment which destroyed the game, TH was a hugely popular trading hub and many of us want to live there. If you don't want to , that's fine, but you don't want FA to be able to live there and I really can't understand why. I'm not saying you have to do or change anything to do with how you play.

You keep saying we should be no different. We don't want to be. You all have a safe zone very close to your HQ that is not your HQ. I want the same. And just to reiterate, it would not even remotely affect you.

I dont care where the CA hq is. I have been Tangent, Crahn, Black Dragon, City Mercs and even FA during my NC career.

Prior to NC2 TH was exactly as it is today. People levelled there, lived there and traded there. You dont need a dedicated trade zone you have a HQ the same as every other faction.

There is a difference between ignorance and disagreement. I can see your point of view. I just disagree with it. It is not about how it affects me personally. I couldnt care less for me personally but what I can see is the Fallen Angels wanting their own zone separate to their hq to trade in. I do not see why you cannot use P1 the same as the rest of us. There is nothing special about the Fallen Angels that they should get their own zone. If I was anything other than City Admin currently you would have no valid argument against me.

TH is shit, thats why noone goes there unless to get to the smugglers/npcs.

If there were people there trading of course I would come there. I would come to trade with you and to kill you and I would expect you to defend your home the same as I do in the city.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by William Antrim

I dont care where the CA hq is. I have been Tangent, Crahn, Black Dragon, City Mercs and even FA during my NC career.

Prior to NC2 TH was exactly as it is today. People levelled there, lived there and traded there. You dont need a dedicated trade zone you have a HQ the same as every other faction.

There is a difference between ignorance and disagreement. I can see your point of view. I just disagree with it. It is not about how it affects me personally. I couldnt care less for me personally but what I can see is the Fallen Angels wanting their own zone separate to their hq to trade in. I do not see why you cannot use P1 the same as the rest of us. There is nothing special about the Fallen Angels that they should get their own zone. If I was anything other than City Admin currently you would have no valid argument against me.

TH is shit, thats why noone goes there unless to get to the smugglers/npcs.

If there were people there trading of course I would come there. I would come to trade with you and to kill you and I would expect you to defend your home the same as I do in the city.

---

But NOONE ELSE needs to use their faction HQ. Are you not even reading this every time I write it? Who's the ignorant one here. You say "use your HQ LIKE EVERYONE ELSE". but EVERYONE ELSE doesn't have to use their HQ. NC faction get to use Plaza 1. You can run from your HQ into the happiness of Plaza 1 in just a few minutes. AS FA we CANNOT DO THAT. We have to GR a 4k trip to the tradezone and have SI.

The point I'm making when i say it doesn't affect you is that you seem to have an opinion on this, but changing it would not even remotely affect your gameplay. Explain how you would be affected and why you disagree and maybe I'd understand your viewpoint, but all you seem to be saying to me is that I should put up with it the way it is cos you said so.

You don't like TH, I get that. Noones asking you to go there. And good luck killing me at TH. Like I said, if its not a safezone, I simply won't bother removing my LE from my tradeskillers. Well done for supporting the LE.

EDIT: I'm gonna have to stop reply to this for the time being i think. I'm suddenly having a bad day personally and don't want that to start affecting my posts on here.

I read it and understand it. I still disagree. I realise what you are saying but none of those reasons make me think that TH should have a safezone. You don't need to use your HQ, you still can do. That is fine.

I have given the reasons why I think this a few posts back. Because the noobs need to see plaza 1 being vibrant and happy to market the game to them. Taking that away is bad for marketing. I have already written this. I am not ignorant.

It does not cost 4k a trip to GR to p1. You have a clan apt and TH apts you can use to GR to plaza quite happily. You get an apt in the "new" outzone complex at the moment and you can happily gr from there. It is still only 1k.

This discussion has nothing to do with the LE. There are another 20 threads on that elsewhere. Personally I do not think any faction other than CA and maybe the allied factions should have the LE in but thats going way OT.

I have replied to your points carefully and thoughtfully. You should have another look through the posts I have made and see that that is the case.

I cant help that you are having a bad day but I have (I hope) at least made my points clear.

lol. all im gonna add to this is making TH a safespot would then encourage MB to become a safe spot and the canyon to become safe.

This is a shit idea.

TH was never the trade center of the universe and there were even stories written (NERD NC1) about the raids by System shock on pluto and the BD guys. This is what NC is all about. If you want to use your home and hang out there then defend it as well.

Build the faction up. build relations. Get something going with STD who are getting stronger as an FA clan. Remove the LE join a clan and do something creative and different. Form a trader clan. I can imagine more people will respect and support you more for this movement than trying to come and pk you because you might drop a tech part.

or keep your le in and cry about safezones and other stuff.

Fact is as william said, your arguement is flawed and we have both agreed that its not a great idea for the reasons mentioned. The game needs less safezones not more in certain areas. This is one of them. The only extra safezone this game needs is p2 in my honest opinion.

My only other possible suggestion to alter this in any way shape or form is make tech haven a warzone so u dont drop belts. Then see what happens.

I can only imagine ;)

Make it a warzone. Make it also grant bonuses like an op. 15 for fa and ten for friendlies 5 for neutrals with warzone sl belt drop rules. Better?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by William Antrim

I read it and understand it. I still disagree. I realise what you are saying but none of those reasons make me think that TH should have a safezone. You don't need to use your HQ, you still can do. That is fine.

I have given the reasons why I think this a few posts back. Because the noobs need to see plaza 1 being vibrant and happy to market the game to them. Taking that away is bad for marketing. I have already written this. I am not ignorant.

It does not cost 4k a trip to GR to p1. You have a clan apt and TH apts you can use to GR to plaza quite happily. You get an apt in the "new" outzone complex at the moment and you can happily gr from there. It is still only 1k.

This discussion has nothing to do with the LE. There are another 20 threads on that elsewhere. Personally I do not think any faction other than CA and maybe the allied factions should have the LE in but thats going way OT.

I have replied to your points carefully and thoughtfully. You should have another look through the posts I have made and see that that is the case.

I cant help that you are having a bad day but I have (I hope) at least made my points clear.

---

You have made your point s clear and I appreciate them.
Just to clarify though, I'm never saying take plaza 1 away from the noobs. I'm simply saying make more than one place for all of this to happen and encourage people to not live in Plaza forever. There's a whole world out there.

And thanks. I'm chilling out a bit now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doc Holliday

lol. all im gonna add to this is making TH a safespot would then encourage MB to become a safe spot and the canyon to become safe.

This is a shit idea.

TH was never the trade center of the universe and there were even stories written (NERD NC1) about the raids by System shock on pluto and the BD guys. This is what NC is all about. If you want to use your home and hang out there then defend it as well.

Build the faction up. build relations. Get something going with STD who are getting stronger as an FA clan. Remove the LE join a clan and do something creative and different. Form a trader clan. I can imagine more people will respect and support you more for this movement than trying to come and pk you because you might drop a tech part.

or keep your le in and cry about safezones and other stuff.

Fact is as william said, your arguement is flawed and we have both agreed that its not a great idea for the reasons mentioned. The game needs less safezones not more in certain areas. This is one of them. The only extra safezone this game needs is p2 in my honest opinion.

My only other possible suggestion to alter this in any way shape or form is make tech haven a warzone so u dont drop belts. Then see what happens.

I can only imagine ;)

---

MB already is a safe zone...

I'm not saying TH was the trade zone of the universe, but it used to be another trade zone. I used to get all of my trade dealt with at TH.

As for less safezones, I'm happy with that as a solution too. Make Plaza 1 and MB non-safe so TH is the same. I'm just saying it used to be more fun when trade was spread out rather than always popping to Plaza 1 to get anything done. But all the time there is a globally accessible safezone in the game, that is where trade will happen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doc Holliday

Make it a warzone. Make it also grant bonuses like an op. 15 for fa and ten for friendlies 5 for neutrals with warzone sl belt drop rules. Better?

---

Do this to Plaza 1 and MB too, and yes, very happy with that alternative.

I sincerely hope this will never be seriously considered by the DEV team.

These guys are simply trying to get the DEV team to make the game "more convenient" for themselves and their factions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kame

I sincerely hope this will never be seriously considered by the DEV team.

These guys are simply trying to get the DEV team to make the game "more convenient" for themselves and their factions.

---

Sigh... Variety in this game is clearly not what you guys are looking for then eh?

Just to clarify, i don't want anything more convenient. I just want TH to be back as a place that people actually go to so the whole bloody game doesn't occur in Plaza 1.

We're too few to have many trading centers.

This is quite obvious.

The last thing we want is useless safezones, and especially not ones made for the convenience of a certain Faction/Clan.

Looks like the only way to make everyone happy is to get rid of all the safezones near faction HQs and create a new safezone with a GR somewhere in the wasteland that isn't very close to any of the HQs. :rolleyes:

Well this doesn't make everyone happy but it makes everyone equally pissed off so it's fair that way!

Make the le reimplantable. advertise the game in the usa. turn pepper park into a pvp zone. turn plaza and tech haven into pve tradeskill centers. get lykos back. bring runspeed back to pre patch levels. can't we all just get along? Hell no.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lucas Kell

Do this to Plaza 1 and MB too, and yes, very happy with that alternative.

---

Its a good job you are in the minority then. you totally misunderstood the point of that alternative. You wanted a reason to go to TH. i gave you one. Now you say make mb the same.

I dont understand why you want to scatter the community and make people have to gr all over the place to find a trader when they know 99% of the time they will find one in plaza 1. However an alternative was offered which should be RESTRICTED to tech haven and actually follows the lore.

Im curious to ask because your forum join date tells me nothing but how long have you played and what versions.

Asking for p1 to be a non safe zone tells me you havent experienced how it was when it was a non safe zone.

Careful dude. He was in beta!

You missed my point completely thread starter.

Making TH a safezone wouldn't cause trade to migrate to TH any more than MB being a safezone causes the trade to happen in MB.
P1 is more convenient for almost everyone, so nothing would change in that regard.

You guys seem pretty hung up on this; why is it such a big deal to you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doc Holliday

Its a good job you are in the minority then. you totally misunderstood the point of that alternative. You wanted a reason to go to TH. i gave you one. Now you say make mb the same.

I dont understand why you want to scatter the community and make people have to gr all over the place to find a trader when they know 99% of the time they will find one in plaza 1. However an alternative was offered which should be RESTRICTED to tech haven and actually follows the lore.

Im curious to ask because your forum join date tells me nothing but how long have you played and what versions.

Asking for p1 to be a non safe zone tells me you havent experienced how it was when it was a non safe zone.

---

My original profile was FlashFF so I joined the forum in September 2002 and the game at the same time. I don't really remember version numbers, it's not something I paid attention to back then.

Yes, I'm aware that Plaza 1 being a non-safe zone was less than fun.
William, I think you are missing my point to be fair.
Ill break it down as best I can:
What I want is VARIETY. I'm not asking them to break plaza 1, I just don't want to have to always go to Plaza 1 to do anything. It's boring as hell to never have to go anywhere else. People just jump back and forth from Plaza 1 to one of the 4 levelling areas... Sigh.

The reasons I think TH will be a good place to open up to potential traders are:
1. TH is currently unused, so it will not affect any existing players to make it safe
2. It has a good spot which has been tried and tested as a trade area and works.
3. It's the home of the tradeskill faction so it makes RP sense
4. It's far enough away from NC to make it a good spot to spread to and give people a reason to travel there.
5. It's a good spot in the world map and it's between MB and NC and close to reagants with an ASG outside.

I understand if you disagree and that's fair, however you will never change my mind, so stop trying, expecting me to suddenly say "You're right! I retract my opinion" as that's never going to happen.

I love NC and I want it to be a game that everyone can love again, but as it stands currently its not very fun to play. A huge portion of the players have their LEs in. There's few active clans, with no real RP or politics going on between them, and the economy is destroyed. Basically at the moment everyones just playing to quickly grind up to close to cap, then either pvp or just gather masses and masses of techs and cash.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by flib

Making TH a safezone wouldn't cause trade to migrate to TH any more than MB being a safezone causes the trade to happen in MB.
P1 is more convenient for almost everyone, so nothing would change in that regard.

You guys seem pretty hung up on this; why is it such a big deal to you?

---

I loved TH and used to run a trade clan there. I want the chance to do that again. AS it currently stands there's no RP reason for me to make a clan to do this as I'll just be standing around in P1 surrounded by enemies.

I wouldnt dream of changing anyones opinion. I love a good discussion and I love reading passionate posts about something that people feel strongly about.

I have thought about your idea some more today and honestly I could see it working in the future. However for that to happen the game would need to have double the server pops constantly. If p1 got so crowded as to make it impossible to be there then the natural claustrophobia would push people out to other places. Possibly TH.

Many years ago I posted a similar idea - to give HQs a bonus to tradeskilling but it was shouted down as it would split the population and make the game look empty. Fair point.

However what you are asking for in the bigger picture is not just the safe zone being implemented in your beloved HQ but you are asking the player base to change its mentality. Hypothetically lets just say you get your wish and the powers that be do grant you the request.

The Fallen Angels faction would need to be huge (lots of tradeskillers online around the clock) to make it work. The pro city tradeskillers (those who are not in clans and work for tips) would naturally gravitate towards P1. The FA guys would all love to go back to TH as they have said down the years.

The anti-FA (TT etc) would still stick with Plaza 1 also.

The noobs who are actually new would have a choice.... walk 4 zones to tag a gr where there may or may not be a tradeskiller online - yes they can GR there next time around but they might not know that. OR they can go to p1 where they can get all manner of tradeskills for the same price without the GR cost. They can spend that money on a tip for the tradeskiller.

Higher level players will either have their own tradeskillers (in which case their apts are in NC and they probably log out in NC) and they will ALL have the p1 grs marked. If their alts are in p1 then they will go to P1 also to swap stuff. The ones in a clan will all use their clans tradeskillers - I know my clan does bar the odd exception when one is not logged in. We even use our own pokers before asking for one outside of that.

So essentially what you are asking for is an extension of a zone (the FA hq) that noone uses already. Why would they put in a 2nd zone when the first one is not used?

So yeah you want another cool place to hang out but there will probably only be a few of you there and you are all die hard FA guys. The faction just is not big enough to support this change.

If FA was the dominant force on the server and EVERYONE wanted to go there then it might work but as it is there is no valid, viable reason to go there over p1 and I do not think that changing ANY OTHER zone in TH to be a safezone is going to change this.

There just is not the benefit. Even from an RP perspective. You can see this for yourself, any splitting of the community will lead people to favour the simplest quickest option. You can try this out and prove me wrong if you like. Go to the FA hq and tradeskill for one week and tell me how many people actually come to you instead of going to P1 and then tell me what faction they were.

People are inherently lazy if they can be. Even digital people are. The quickest and most convenient route to solving their problem is always the most favourable. I would be willing to bet real money that over 3/4 of the people who reply to you if you offer tradeskilling in TH would say "nah its ok I will try P1" or words to that effect.

That is the reason why I do not think your idea is worth doing.

Understandable, and I fully agree it's not going to suddenly become a popular place, but I know there would be at least a few of us there, and we can start getting at least one clan in there to get started. Once there are a reasonable amount of traders there however, coming from the usual places people are levelling and farming, NC will be no more convenient than TH. Doing the groundwork before the population increases can't hurt though and as far as I'm aware this is not a tough change that needs to be heavily developed, its a flag on the map.

It's not really an extension of the HQ however. the HQ would be good to use, but if you haven't been there before its a bit out of the way, and if you are not friendly with FA, you'd never make it. Much like NC, TH 1, 2 and 3 should be open to all, but all HQs should not allow enemies.

I'm sure you're right, most people will prefer to stick to NC1 to trade, but a change like this wouldn't have any negative effects and for me to get people there would require me to make them better deals, and perhaps we can get a bit of real competition going in trade :p

That is my point exactly... if you are not friendly to FA...


P1 is friendly to all, as it should be. Easily accessible, thoughtfully designed and modern. It has everything that everyone needs. I suggest trying out your idea for a month and then coming back and detailing us with your experiences.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by William Antrim

That is my point exactly... if you are not friendly to FA...


P1 is friendly to all, as it should be. Easily accessible, thoughtfully designed and modern. It has everything that everyone needs. I suggest trying out your idea for a month and then coming back and detailing us with your experiences.

---

Well yeah, but TH 2 should be open to all too. The HQ however shouldn't, so using that is out of the question. Much like using CA HQ is out of the question as many people would get shot to death in there too.

I'd be happy to trial run the idea, but for that to happen it would still need to be a secure zone :D
Without that, the issue is always going to be that non-LE runners will not take non-locked slot high value items into a combat zone.

Try it in the HQ. See how many people can be arsed to come to Tech Haven generally when P1 serves their needs adequately. That's the point I am trying to show you. I firmly believe that this idea will fall on its arse. However I would love to be proved wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by William Antrim

Try it in the HQ. See how many people can be arsed to come to Tech Haven generally when P1 serves their needs adequately. That's the point I am trying to show you. I firmly believe that this idea will fall on its arse. However I would love to be proved wrong.

---

Noone will come to the HQ lol, half the population would get shot to death by guards. The only people that would show up are the ones already there for 150 res missions :p
Could probably make a fortune as a resser in there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lucas Kell

Noone will come to the HQ lol

---

I rest my case.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by William Antrim

I rest my case.

---

:D Hence my want for TH2!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lucas Kell

Noone will come to the HQ lol, half the population would get shot to death by guards.

---

Well and they really should be shot to death in Sector 2 too. At least one entrance is protected with warning shots, the other one although is undefended.
The same way known terrorists should be killed on sight in Plaza 1. Tech Haven is not a safe plaze to be, thats why there are Angel Runners, because there are people out there that would really like to harm them. Crahn, Tangent and Black Dragon if you want to name them. Thats not half the population though, just to mention it. To populate Tech Haven you need players start there, decent leveling possibilities for the low ones and a few shops. If that doesn't help after a while, then maybe a safezone can be brought up again (although In guess i would still be against it).
I just wish they would bring the Security Bots back to Sector 2, but I think they were to buggy in that sector to really work.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deus Ex Machina

Well and they really should be shot to death in Sector 2 too. At least one entrance is protected with warning shots, the other one although is undefended.
The same way known terrorists should be killed on sight in Plaza 1. Tech Haven is not a safe plaze to be, thats why there are Angel Runners, because there are people out there that would really like to harm them. Crahn, Tangent and Black Dragon if you want to name them. Thats not half the population though, just to mention it. To populate Tech Haven you need players start there, decent leveling possibilities for the low ones and a few shops. If that doesn't help after a while, then maybe a safezone can be brought up again (although In guess i would still be against it).
I just wish they would bring the Security Bots back to Sector 2, but I think they were to buggy in that sector to really work.

---

In the same way though, how come TG can freely walk around in Plaza 1 when they are supposedly the main enemy of the city. - It's because regardless of faction, it's a tough world and there's a need for trade, so there are areas that people are freely allowed to go and trade as long as they don't start anything. HQs are not that place however.

A lot of work needs to be done to TH to bring it up to speed with the rest of the game world, but this idea is a way to get this started without anything new being developed.

While I was a fan of TH being a trade hub (as it made more sense than plaza 1 to me - even though plaza 1 still saw a fair bit of trade when TH was THE trade hub) i think life should be given to the area. Having fallen angel runners start there would be a good start, tweaking the dungeons there so it's a viable alternative to cyclops/aggressors might be good too because if i remember correctly last time I checked out the cores or w/e they were called the levels of the mobs there varied greatly with level 2 being ridiculously easy while level 3 would instant gib you.