LE carebare QQ...i like the patch!
EDIT: Titan need speedcap!
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LE carebare QQ...i like the patch!
EDIT: Titan need speedcap!
u made some nice statements in your post, but i wanted to speak on this part a lil bit :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Cannings
the whole idea of the le is to keep u safe from other players. safe from players yes, safe from the environment? not at all. there is always the chance u can die from the environment, but if im le'd i shouldnt have to worry about other players otherwise get rid of the le all together its now useless lol
when is the last time u actually went out in a rhino firemobbing? because there is a great chance u will loose your rhino everytime w/o having to worry about griefers. a grim persy will kill your rhino so fast it will make your head spin and forget about the invisible damage that happens lol. i cant tell u how many times i had to have the gunner jump out because the rhino is taking too much damage so i can rep. and yes im passionate about this because this is all i do in nc. not once have i ever blocked someones loot. i go places where most people dont go and level alone. that much wont change but now i cant even drive thru places like cycrow (which i usually dont anyways) because every un le'd person in those greifer clans will just shoot to see it blow up then laugh at u on ooc. but i digress.....now im done lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faid
This is what I vote for. To me, this makes the most logical sense.
If you would like it nicely laid out, this is what I think:
-Having an LE in makes it so that you cannot shoot anyone whether it's an LE'd player or Non-LE'd player (this same exact thing applies to vehicles). Note: This is how the game is currently slated, Any person with an LE in their head can not deal any damage to those who are LE'd and Non-LE'd.
-Having NO LE in makes it so that you can shoot only Non-LE'd players, like it is currently in PvP guidelines (this same exact thing applies to vehicles).
To clarify: the law enforcer protects the runner himself (including his belongings, i mean why should someone who PvE's lose his vehicle to someone who indicates they wanted to PvP- since they removed their LE)! And it also makes sure the runner obeys the law. Which means having no LE in does not protect you from anything (the basic concept of Law Enforcer being taken out means you are essentially "law-less" or for humorous terms: lawless). It is as simple as that.
I have done firemob farming with rhino's before I know exactly what it's like, and tbh it doesn't really matter if you don't drive over corpses or shoot other peoples vehicles this isn't a patch directly aimed at you, its aimed at levelling the game out which is what needs to happen in so many area's a bit at a time.Quote:
Originally Posted by gstyle40
Yes I can tell you are taking this pretty personally
And to the first point, the LE is to protect YOU from getting killed from other players, it still does that. In a cyberpunk world these bad guys can rob you and not kill you, unlike other non protected players that can rob and kill them
To clarify myself, this is a terrible vastly unbalanced idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alduin
I would like to hire Skullz to repeatedly gank whoever spouted this arse-gravy.
This sounds to me like a way of opening the game up to griefers with no real gain to the gameplay as a whole.
Simply make it so if the owner of a vehicle has an LE, noone can enter it without an LE. That way, you solve the combat issues of LE vehicles with non-LE gunners, and you also add another layer of separation to LE players and non-LE players.
This should encourage more players to remove the LE, which I support as it brings back the risk element into the game.
The current change will just mean LE players aren't allowed vehicles except the quad and NEXT epic as griefers will make it thier mission to destroy the, which to me just alienates new players even more.
Edit: Just to clarify, this really will mean LE players will not be allowed vehicles, since there is no way a non-LE player would leave the LE player alone. The only reason non-LE players don't constantly attack each other is the risk of possibly losing the fight. What you are saying here is "if a non-LE player meets an LE player levelling with a vehicle, the non-LE player has a 100% risk free attack available to them".
Hardly fair eh? This is simply a way of punishing LE players, so why not just have the LE drop out at */30
Look at the end of the line. The result will be that nobody will buy a rhino. People wont use vehicles anymore.
Gamedesign punishes you for using a vehicle.
Be consequent and remove the LE, set a limit like level 10 or just let it as it is.
edit: Wth the time, when I think about it, the idea that the LE only protects the runner himself isnt that bad as I thought in the first place. Reason is this:I have come to the perfect solution for our problem.
Noobs love the vehicles of neocron. Just prohibit LE-Runners from using a vehicle. That motivates them to take the chip out. The gameplay wont change as no LE-player would use his vehicle with patch 181.
The thing with 181 is that is communicates a negative thing: LE-Vehicles can be destroyed but cant shoot back.
Make it positive and say that only Non-LE runners are allowed to pull vehicles.
The result will be the same but the effect will be totalyl different.
I present the following proposal:Quote:
Originally Posted by Alduin
Combat mecahnics around vehicles belonging to players with and without Law Enforcers are broken. To prevent griefing from any side, and at the same time promote fair play, I offer the following solution.
For this I will use the follow shorthand:
Vu = Vehicles without Law Enforced Status
Vle = Vehicles with Law Enforced Status
Pu = Players without Law Enforced Status
Ple = Players with Law Enforced Status
Vehicle combat status should be tied to the owners Law Enforcement status, (that is the registered keepers status not the currently active driver)
The following rules are for the ability to enter a vehicle in any way:
Vle may not be entered at any time by a Pu
Vu may not be entered at any time by a Ple
Law Enforcement status for vehicles should work in the same way as Law Enforcement status for players, so:
Vu and Pu can fight and damage each other, but may not fight and damage Vle or Ple
Vle and Ple cannot fight or damage any player or vehicle
If you can't kill an LEed vehicle, what's there to prevent a clan using LEed rhinos to block the entrances to an OP? Especially if there's an unLEed gunner in it....
P.S. Skulls will gladly take any contract to kill GMs. One MC5 chip per dog tag.
Make it so you can run through LE vehicles. This will stop them blocking anywhere. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Dribble Joy
OK so that could be an issue that needs to be addressed. It's a much smaller issue than "New players aren't allowed vehicles", since running anywhere is an absolute mission in NC.
It could be made so that if an LE driver enters a bounding sphere around OP entrance, it displays a "Warning! Entering Combat Area - Your vehicle will be vulnerable to attacks in 10 seconds.
Then if you don't get out of the OP area, your vehicles can be destroyed. Make this area or a moderate size to prevent it being too small to worry about. Do the same around genereps.
Here is a simpler solution, make all rhinos vulnerable being attacked in places with outposts, regardless of LE/Non-LE'd owner. That way no tactics like blocking entrances and other crappy bs will work. Not to mention if people are bringing a rhino to an op fight, they better damn well be presented the risk of having it shot to hell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas Kell
Guys stop, breathe, and think for a minute or two about the following :
Un-LEd can already blow a LEd vehicle, so nothing changes from the current setting.
What changes though, is that LEd gunner can no longer damage anything, be that LEd or non-LEd vehicle, which they currently can do.
From any perspective, LEd gunner damaging anything player owned/operated was a major flaw.
Also bear in mind the LE'd driver can just drive off!!! Who would have thought!!!!
Just as unLE'd able to damage LE'd is a major flaw, just an apparent acceptable one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kame
Just make all vehicles able to attack all vehicles regardless of LE status. This is the only logical course of action to correct the bug that is there.
The MAJOR flaw in this patch is that an LE'd vehicle can not defend itself and is forced to sit there and be destroyed. It's just senseless and an affront to this so-called 'fair play' of which people speak. It doesn't make the playing field level in any way, shape, or form. It just seems to appease the people that constantly attack the LE (which is getting really old, and that horse has been long since dead).
The people who like how this patch is set up are probably the same people that go around killing 0/2's and tradeskillers then mock them in HELP and OOC for being bad.
Everything changes from the current setting. The way it is now, only A Vehicle gunner could damage an LE'd vehicle. With the new patch, anyone UN-LE'd with any weapon at all can damage LE'd Vehicles. It's much easier to blow up a vehicle with a Creed than shooting at it from a Rhino. This patch is ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kame
Non-LEed players run this risk all the time. Why does making this change kill the number of vehicles? I thought the community wanted less reasons to remain LEed.
(Yes, the viability of vehicles needs to be looked at, but that is a separate discussion.)
Less reasons to remain LE'd, this is fine, we can have a discussion on this.
Making the LE useless for vehicles? That's not less reasons that's completely defeating the purpose of having the LE to begin with. I'd honestly rather they just removed the LE from the game entirely than this, I'm not even joking.
This. Sums it up perfectly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Faid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunshifty
Go back and read my post. The one about the LE driver and Non LE Gunner going for a drive.
What we need is something similar to what we got with PPUs. LE'd players can't get in a vehicle with non-LE'd and vice versa, LE protects against players, same as it does on foot.
The line about "LE doesn't protect your belongings" is bullshit, by this logic, the LE only protects your naked body so non-LE'd players should be able to shoot LE'd players and ruin all their armour but do no damage to their health. We should also be able to steal everything from LE'd players except their implants via a new option in the right click menu, hey "The LE doesn't protect a runner's belongings".
One of the main reasons I am so happy with this patch :
LE'd players that drive over the corpses of Grims until the loot becomes theirs. There are plenty of them around, and they all need their vehicles destroyed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by L0KI
That has always worked both ways. As an LE player I can't do anything to the un-LE'd when they do it. This has always been a problem and still is between Le'd players, even with the patch.
Perhaps certain mobs shouldn't unlock for other players. Anything that drops rares should stay locked for the one player who got the kill or even for the team.
This vehicle/LE-related patch is very bad one.
Now vehicles (and with this content (!!) again) becomes worthless. Where former patches does make vehicles not as usable as in NC 2.1 now vehicles become targets of griefers which will lead to avoid them completely. Fire mob hunting for leveling and part collection will become not psossible anymore, therefore people will switch to use quad/rifle/cannons only because risk is much lower.
Lot of flaws can be observed here:
1. No one could escape attackers with a Rhino or so. This is unrealistic #1: runners are much faster running /zonig than vehicles. The often cited "bad cyberpunk world" - how realistic is this ??
2. One or two Runners easily can destroy a Rhino = a TANK with a TANK CANNON and this TANK could not harm them due to low damage and aiming. This is unrealistic #2 ?? Did one ever tried to make pvp with a Rhino against pvp-Chars ? Laughable. (and: the Rhino is one of the toughest and with some damage, take a look at the worthless combat quads, reveler or trikes....). Shouldn't have a Tank (!!) 100.000 HP ore more and shouldn't do his cannon 2.000 HP damage or more ?
3. Normally a pvp-specialized setup is always superior to any pve-setup. And people who are hunting with Rhinos do have pve-setups mostly.
4. The "LE-Runner-blocking-Corps-"argument is a bad one. How often is this happening ? I did not experienced this over years. And it is bidirectional: non-LE'd players could do this also.
I would believe that this will continue shifting gameplay more to the pvp-direction and away from pve content. Only result is that this will favoring grief play and flaming and will decativate content again rather than make content useful/ playable.
Reed
Thanks to the people giving constructive feedback, this is very much appreciated (you know who you are ;) <3 ). The idea of putting the anti-vhc weapons back to good use is a good one, but we need to evaluate it in more detail on the team.
Just a side remark: we have the possibility of changing the system to what was intended in 2.2, but we won't.
[EDIT]
And again I have to stress: this patch is only the beginning there are more changes to come, but as stated earlier we need to test those bit by bit.
SO the LE doesn't protect a runners property as stated by Alduin, why then does the LE prevent people from shooting said property? If the reason for LE'd vehicles being susceptible to attack is based on the LE's function to only effect the person not the property, why then can't LE'd people damage other property? You've seemingly separated people from property, therefor all property shoot be attack-able regardless of the LE status of who is shooting at it.
Faid... Common sense man. How can you defend your vehicle from a runner you cannot attack ?
Also a normal Neocron Runner is indeed non-LE. The ones with special satus here are the LE'd, not the other way around.
Kame if you mean the bugs with LE'd gunners shooting player's vehicles, no one is suggesting we go back to that.
Most of the suggestions in this thread seem to be very similar: Extend the LE rules to vehicles, it's very simple, LE should mean you can't attack or be attacked by any player. Not having a LE means you can only shoot other people without a LE.
The ONLY argument against this is LE'd players blocking things with vehicles, be that GRs, OP entrances or lootable corpses.
I would say #181's answer to this is not a fix, it's fixing one problem but creating another one*, there needs to be a real fix to the vehicle blocking issue, this clearly isn't it.
*Don't say being able to destroy people's vehicles and they can't do anything back isn't a problem, you can troll as much as you like, we all know like Faid said in every other area of the game being able to shoot something that can't shoot you back (safespotting, old drone targetting bugs, terrain bugs etc...) has always been considered an exploit.
This patch introduces legal exploiting, some people want it because of the vehicle blocking problem. Some want it so they can shoot LE'd players with no fear of getting shot back.
If we create more problems every time we fix something, we will be stuck fixing stuff for eternity and Neocron will never truly improve.
Please make sure everyone in the Team understands that those weapons are kinda "Tank only" at this point.We all know how much people love Tank-o-cron since 2.2 but please try to create an anti-vehicle "solution" that is not limited to a certain class (a higher damage output while in the hands of a Soldier makes sense,tho)Quote:
Originally Posted by Alduin
I've always believed in and tried to give constructive criticism but I hope you understand the widespread hostility towards the latest test patch. There are numerous ways that it negatively affects the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alduin
You keep underlining that "there are more changes to come". I hope this means that there will be something to alter and/or balance the vehicle issue. As you seem reluctant to divulge anything further I will have to trust that there are good reasons and that your vision for this is as well designed as the other changes to have taken effect in the last few months. I've given my feedback on the idea and won't be banging on about it any further, or at least until there are further developments.
You mean like un-LE'd attacking a LE'd vehicle?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kame
The only valid (i.e. "fair") solution in this case would be that the LE'd player may defend himself/his property when attacked (and this limited to the attacking non-LE'd player so you don't shoot innocent bystanders by accident). So you normally can't harm anyone but when some idiot attacks your Rhino you may retaliate. Thus preventing senseless griefing (guess why every sane person rides a Jones car to distant caves/Regants... Because not every idiot can destroy your vehicle while standing there when you are PvE busy..) Unless you can implement such kind of "aggro system" it would be most unfair and I won't get my expensive rhino out of the garage until fixed (already lost 2 while syncing/leveling - this is getting expensive). And for you whining un-LEd: I won't remove my LE from my droner - you wouldn't like me doing this, believe me...
Just my 2 cents
Don't play us for fools. That reply is pure bullshit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jodo
LE'd people have the means to defend their vehicles against un-LE'd.
Un-LE'd have simply no means to defeat an LEd vehicule.
Making LE'd able to attack non-LE'd is the worst idea ever as it not only opens the door for a lot of LE'd driver/non-LE'd gunner bullshit like we currently have to deal with, it simply makes it easier.
Really if you want to defend your vehicules against an un-LE'd runner, hire a non-LE, or take off the LE yourself.