The problem with Neptune was the PvP anywhere, not the fact that there were no LEs, if I remember correctly. That, and the completely gung-ho attitude of everyone due to it being new and shiny. It was a gankfest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Norris
Quote:
Originally Posted by L0KI
nowai UN-inhibitaded gankfest you say? likewhooa, dude you dont get it even when you type it do you?
Really, gotta love that community, biggest bunch of jerks on the web and you talk about bonding :rolleyes: Those guys you wanna form kinship with hijacked your thread for a rally call for a witch hunt. They throw shit at others and with a self-righteous tone tell them to read the post again, while completely missing the point themselves.
Well, guess i can't make it any worse... but i'll try! Not part of that madhouse for no reason.
Instead of getting carried away on sugar coated pep-talk that tickles the nostalgia bone, reading the post as it is reveals the following to me:
- Nowhere, at any point talked the OP about removing the LE from the game. Yet people get all wet and fussy when they just see the word "LE" somewhere and as some sort of Pavlovian conditioning go nuts with their claims about removing the feature, disregarding the actual opinion or subject of the discussion.
Originally Posted by FoxDF
Your whole idea is flawed by this. Whether you give LE an XP penalty or non-LE an XP buff is completely indifferent to the outcome. LE'd players are getting less XP and will feel penalized.- I don't expect any proper idea of how that "difference" looks either. The whole point makes no sense actually. Either the difference is big enough to matter, then we are with the penalty again - or - its not big enough to matter, then the whole idea is pointless. There is just nothing in between. Its yes or no, maybe doesn't work here.
Removing the LE from the game is off the topic here.
This thread is about restoring community dynamics to nc1 style dynamics. If you weren't here then I feel bad for you son cos nc has 99 problems and the le is one.
The LE is not the root of the evil, its a symptom of the underlying problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by William Antrim
The reason for a buff for none LE'd players instead of a direct penalty for LE'd players, was for the reason of not putting pure PvE players in an disadvantage, as they would still gain the same amount of xp they do now, while players risking something by pullig it out get rewarded by getting a bit more xp.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drachenpaladin
Basicaly, if youre a PvE only player, this wont matter much to you, you still will get the same XP you used to, your still save from PKs and apparently you like to grind and level, so it also wont shorten your PvE-Journey.
If youre a PvE and PvP player, you basicaly have a choice of risking something, stay save until your capped or risk getting PKed but level faster.
So the reason for a Increase of XP for None-LE'd players was to not alienate PvE Players.
if you put LE out when lvling up/equipping:
no bunker lvling except you are neutral or friendly to mercs(fusion gimps ganking even runners with low ranks)
no P2 aggi missions cuz there are always the "i shoot everyone thats not in my clan until i got -10 SL" - guys(RSC, RED, ....) camping the zoneline.
no mc5 farming cuz there will be gankage as soon as you come there with a ppu mate and a big clan is there(no matter if you are green or not to them)
and there is an advantage for non LE guys already - 4th brainimp, capture ops and edit security settings to make people walk longer to the good lvlspots(last week CRP/Cycrow was always closed, if you look worldmap nearly all settings are AC/GRC)
if the guys owning ops would be more social or have manners there would be more guys without LE - so please CLOSE this threat moderator cuz this aint gonna happen!
There is a back way in to P2, and a Generep. Both are rarely guarded. There is an aggy cellar in p1 also.
The repeated 'grasping at straws' in naming advantages to taking your LE out by the 'Pro -LE' crowd hurts your cause rather than supports it. You're showing that there is very little real motivation to take it out.
Nuff'saidQuote:
Originally Posted by WooT
People ask for reason's they are listed then immediately dismissed as "grasping at straws", this conversation is unreasonable and will go no where. People will not acknowledge facts and purely want to go off their gut feelings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strife
1.) Facts have been listened to and acknowledged. An advantage to taking your LE out was suggested, and agreed on.
2.) Everything listed is not immediately being dismissed as grasping at straws. See above.
3.) When has anyone ever said. MAN, I CANT WAIT TO TAKE MY LE OUT SO I CAN MAKE PEOPLE RUN FURTHER, HELL YEAH THIS GAME ROCKS! The suggestion was absurd and a poor attempt to fabricate an appeal to take an LE out.
Don't sit here and make up lies and bullshit to push your agenda. The one I see being dismissive and not listening is you. If you cant make an argument please don't bother posting bullshit instead.
Okay, I'm just going to express my opinion once again, but make it as clear as possible this time.
It's clear from this thread that we have an incredibly stubborn community, and that applies to both sides of the 20ft fence that divides us, myself included. Regardless, maybe the devs were around in the early days and understand the true nature of this thread.
I'm assuming you meant uninhibited. With that in mind, I don't think harsh LE penalties or even the removal of the LE would result in an uninhibited gank-fest 100% of the time. Sure, a rather large percentage would end in bloodshed, but please refer to exhibit A (the opening post) on why that's not necessarily a terrible thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Norris
I'm not quite sure that's a bad thing in itself. If anything, it emphasises the point the OP was making and that I have tried to reinforce in my last post. You'd have alternatives, such as:Quote:
Originally Posted by WooT
- Asking the people at the bunker to help you kill the CM ganker
- Join a clan, and call them to help you at the bunker
- Level somewhere away from enemy territory
- If all else fails, shout on HELP channel for someone to come and kill the person that's killed you at MB bunker.
Go to Plaza 1. There's an aggie cellar there, and it's really not THAT far to run around the corner to the city cQuote:
Originally Posted by WooT
This is one of the main reasons I want it removed/changed in the first place. I firmly believe that the valuable spots such as MC5, the WoC tunnels and such should be fought over by rival groups/clans. As it stands right now, a team of LE players can literally hog these entire areas without ANY consequences. No risk, all the reward.Quote:
Originally Posted by WooT
The 4th brain implant is hardly a big deal when it comes to levelling without risk. I'd hardly call it much of an advantage, and that extra implant slot is certainly no incentive for people to remove their LEs.Quote:
Originally Posted by WooT
No response required.Quote:
Originally Posted by WooT
You do realise that all of the people who have no les in just want more people to fight.
You should also realise that if you called for their help because someone is in the Sewer Pking noobs that a fair few people would fucking love the chance to pk that person into oblivion!
ooohhhh yeah baby!Quote:
Originally Posted by william antrim
Some people want game to remain like a single player, with optional multi player.
This is not what NC is. NC is a FPSMMO. What part of FPSMMO do you guys not understand ?
This is what's totally missing in game right now. Good/bad reputations based on actions rather than the amount of shit they talk on OOC.Quote:
Originally Posted by William Antrim
Itak Man and the Noob Defenders.... sounds like the sort of story a mother would tell her noobs as she tucks them in at night. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by L0KI
fuck it listen to the trolls they killed the game once, go ahead let them do it again!
Why not just make a new server and they can all go troll each other, Forcing their skewed narrow must pvp me or you dont get play view is some bullshit.
nothing about this game is massive so stop trying to make it out like its and MMO.
People wont even help with rides a few sectors and just spam you with "stfu noob use venture warp" and "take out your le and meet me at the asg". The simple fact any of you suggest people are not constantly trolls trolling in game looking to harass anyone they can is absurd.
People literally log pvp characters where there alts lvl so they can pk any non-le'd that come near "their area" hell whole clans do this!
Forcing trolls on people is never the answer sorry.
You talk about disadvantage the way a politician does drach. Not a flame but you are pointing it out in such a way that it is merely a perceived disadvantage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drachenpaladin
Im an LE Player and according to you im at a disadvantage because that guy over there has decided to take out his LE. He now gets a hypothetical 20% increase per hour/day/kill on me. Damn man. thats a huge disadvantage.
AAH. wait. now here comes a big bad pker that everyone talks about. Hes just killed that guy while i stood back and watched. that guy lost an item in his belt mr big bad pker just hacked. he faced the indignation of choosing a gr and going off back to where ever to try and find a poker etc and wait off his SI etc. I on the other hand can continue to level.
Cost VS benefit. Economics. I offset the cost (slower xp) with the benefit (no PK) so therefore how i am i really at a disadvantage.
Not sure how else i can put it without being accused of trolling or being told to fuck off to another server.
Apologies if the post is written in a childish tone also. it does read like i would say this to a child but with the replies in this thread i felt that writing it simply was the best way because people are still failing to grasp the core argument here and that is trying to find a successful balance between both worlds. Not punishing one camp to benefit another but finding a way that two sides in this arguement can live in symbiosis as its clear we do actually need each other.
Having to compete to get to high end leveling spots is just fine.
We currently compete a lot at mc5 an no one fucking complains. 5-6 runners team from the biggest pvp clan regularly got at it at mc5. When we die, we get poked and go back.
I'd rather get killed fighting a clan then to have to deal with an LEd team purposedly trying to ruin it for me/us.
From what I'm reading there is mature, intelligent debate and ideas being posted. Then, there's you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Norris
If you have any ideas or wish to push your pro-LE ideals do so with-out the, 'THE WORLD IS ENDING!!!!' drama/whining. There's no reason why you can't voice maturely why you think an idea may not work.
Forum bitchslap. needed to be saidQuote:
Originally Posted by Strife
There is. Its called inability to grasp the concept of the topic at hand and enrich the discussion with valid input.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strife
In other words. Stupidity. I wish i could be proved wrong but i highly doubt it.
And exactly that perceived disadvantage is the problem i tried to point out. Logically it won't matter much, but when have been people, foremost we, been logical?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Holliday
One side will always cry, whether for bigger fences or for the opposite.
Agreed but this is inevitable. all we can do is try and eliminate the crying through minimisation of it occurring. Thats the basics of risk management. Manage it in such a way as to make it be either unlikely to occur or occur in such a way that its impact is minimal. Jesus im in full on study mode today. i sound like a proper geek ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Drachenpaladin
But isn't that just glossing over the problem? Wouldn't a much more profound solution be adequate? But i guess, that would require resources we don't have...Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Holliday
I just know, minimizing the problem doesn't solve it, in fact, at that point YOU just sound like a politician :p
Do you really think an attitude like this is going to strengthen your side of the argument?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Norris
As Strife rightly points out, we're currently seeing thought-out, mature arguments on one side, and this sort of drivel on the other. Which do you think the development team are more likely to take note of? Sensible arguments which contribute to the discussion or highly emotional rants.
Note to self : Must look up if the word 'Emo' came from 'Emotional'
It did.
The fact is there is no counter argument for boosting XP. There is no valid reason why the LE people should feel aggrieved because they would have access to the same advantages by fulfilling said requirement. That is to remove the LE from their heads.
They could in fact (if it was coded properly) remove the le - double xp or whatever the gain would be - level to level 29 and put it back in thus enjoying the best of both worlds and deciding if LE removal at cap/80 base stats/woc/some other goal of their choosing was a viable option.
The reason chuck norris keeps posting drivel is because he has no properly constructed argument, is constantly on the back foot and feels outnumbered by the intellectual and thought provoking comments arising from other posters.
Chuck my old son, this is a battle of wits and you're firing blanks.
There are probably two types of LE users:
Those who will have it permanently.
They are not PvPers for whatever reason (and I don't think they should be denounced for that, I agree with Doc that the option should be there).
Those who have it temporarily.
These people are keeping it until a given point in time/level when they will remove it.
The latter are the people we are interested in. If we want them to remove it (for whatever reason), that we have to know why they do not remove it.
If we examine this and then re-examine with an alteration to the way the LE functions, then we can find a way that encourages it's removal rather than an arbitrary heavy-handed 'fix'.
If a 20% xp bonus is applied to those without an LE, would that cause people to think it worth the risk to remove it? 10%? 30%?
Same with mob cash reward, loot, etc.
I see a logical flaw here in the second type of LE'd players: If they remove conciously their LE if they reach a certain level/ cap or WOC (what the majority is in my opinion) - then why you excpect you must encourage them to do this ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dribble Joy
The reality for this type is that they WILL remove the LE as planned, it's only a question of time. Time some posters here not have or will not allow. Most of the posters here are missing pvp and enough "soft targets" to kill, that's it.
And: The first type of LE player, those who will never remove the LE, they choosing this option for playstyle and they WILL leave the game for sure if you make dinstinct disadvantages for LE Player. If the differences are not distinct and minor ones than it's worthless for your intention.
We have a full spectrum of players, from pure pve players to hardcore pvp-lovers. Everytime these discussions are leading to a split in the player base, the give no result, exception would be one is shifting the situation in favor of one side. This will automatically let players leave the game on the other side.
I would appreciate if all players would have the choice for their playstyle and stay !
Reed
They are going to remove it regardless. It is a question of when and why not sooner.Quote:
Originally Posted by DR REED
I do not have an LE, I have no intention of finding low level non-LEed players to gank because it's easier than someone who's capped.Quote:
Most of the posters here are missing pvp and enough "soft targets" to kill, that's it.
The presumption that I do have that intention is part of the problem. I would prefer those who intend to be un-LEed to be un-LEed. If you don't want to use it, then why use it at all?
If you find being PKed an inconvenience, then you have to find a way around it. In essence this comes down to keeping your LE in or relying on a clan/other runners to deal with those who killed you. People are so fearful of even the slightest break in xp gain that I know one clan leader who is the clan's only member, the other ten people are all LEed until cap. That is not conducive to a thriving community/clan system.
Why?Quote:
And: The first type of LE player, those who will never remove the LE, they choosing this option for playstyle and they WILL leave the game for sure if you make dinstinct disadvantages for LE Player.
Seriously, why?
A PvE player is (in general) far more interested in the game world, different locations and the general content of the game than the hardcore PvPer and is not desperate to reach cap as soon as possible (since reaching cap quickly is really only done to engage in endgame PvP as soon as possible). An xp or cash reward reduction is meaningless since their experience of the game is completely different. A PvPer wants to PvP, with as little of the leveling as possible and spend as much time at the PvP endgame. The end game is no-where near as important to a PvEer, the whole spectrum of leveling/PvE is part of the game that they play. In some ways there is no endgame for PvE other than collating wealth, items and refining their characters over a long period of time.